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What's the difference between the precieved and the intended context of the insult. Just what is the true nature of the pretense? Ironic is the variation of the possible true context and meanings at work. In regards to the matter of hypocrisy, would it not be best to know and understand the ethical or moral frameworks of those in question before pronouncing hypocrisy?

I have yet to see you make an independent post, that was not some negative response in regards to what somebody else posted. Basically, I don't see you putting yourself out there, unless it's a response to something you have issue with. What is really Icarys true position if he were to make an independent post on the topic, instead of feeding off the energy of other posters? Then again, this is only my perception of something, to which could or could not be skewed on some level.

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How do a person's "wants" or their desire "to be treated with Love and Respect" prevent them from being used as a 'doormat'? Having a "Voice in things" is sometimes a path to being used as a doormat. Most of the people who I have personally used as a 'doormat' in the past specifically voiced and set the parameters for their being used as a doormat. They may have sought "love and respect" but what they got was used.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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What's the difference between the precieved and the intended context of the insult. Just what is the true nature of the pretense? Ironic is the variation of the possible true context and meanings at work. In regards to the matter of hypocrisy, would it not be best to know and understand the ethical or moral frameworks of those in question before pronouncing hypocrisy?

I have yet to see you make an independent post, that was not some negative response in regards to what somebody else posted. Basically, I don't see you putting yourself out there, unless it's a response to something you have issue with. What is really Icarys true position if he were to make an independent post on the topic, instead of feeding off the energy of other posters? Then again, this is only my perception of something, to which could or could not be skewed on some level.

My position is well documented along the last while I've been here if anyone pays attention. I believe you know this but you want to play games with words.

I make posts just like everyone else does when they see something they think is incorrect. That's where some of the hypocrisy creeps out..it's just so subtle that your not paying it any attention.

pretty much everything I've done..been accused of and might do has already has been or will be done by pretty much every single one of us at one time or another. That's the hypocrisy, irony and even a little pretense on these boards. When ya point out hey...your this or that...that's when I start to chuckle..and yes even I've had to retract a few things I've said and had a few chuckles at myself along the way.

My position then? Is hoping people become a little more self aware, enlightened and not just profess to be. How can I tell? They don't bare the fruits. That's another topic for sure.

See..she called me petty for pointing out with a picture the opposing side to another picture that was used in a petty way as well..The mere fact that she took the time to do that in and of itself a petty action. All the while not taking into consideration that I didn't post the original picture..maybe she did and just wanted to rib me for some reason..Only she knows.


I don't expect you to see things my way for a second because honestly..If you'd take an idea like toying and taking advantage of someone and then call it social enginerring..If I read correctly I believe that's what you guys did then you might not be on the same page anyway. That would be an example of a clouded view and skewing the truth.

I'm not upset about any of this..I know it's complicated human nature.

This will probably be the last time I come to this particular post..It's not important for me to watch the word spin you'll no doubt do next not too long after you've accused me of spinning yourself. I know that won't stop you in the slightest because you'll feel the need to address it anyway probably.

Have a good one.

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Considering I responded to the thread in sequential order, while I had my window open formulating a response, that other posts occured, that I did not see at the time. That I was in one position in the thread. Yet the thread was still in evolution. SPIN Jobs were indeed flying all the way around. However, Yeah I laid out my Spin Job Doormat, because of what was starting to unfold. When I posted and came back up for Air. Yesh... It was still was getting worse with SPIN jobs going on.

You took my doormat and applied a personal spin. Ref post 203 on this thread. Now Prior to this you Julia have been in a beckering match for a number of posts. Post 181 of this thread stresses this, with your own admittence even. It simply reared it's ugly head up yet again here. So yeah, the whole "the Spin Stops here" doormat image, well was kind of befitting for what was going on at the time.

Hell dude, you could have posted your own doormat, seperate and independent without taking other peoples doormats image postings and do what you did with them.

Instead of you placing your own doormat images up seperately, you made the choice to take and directly use other people's doormat, and turn it around with your own SPINS, to make me or somebody else look bad and yourself look better. This is the way I percieve things, then again perhaps my perception is a little skewed or off. Then again, perhaps not considering post 181 on this thread and what was going on previously.

You rattled my cage and I'm not an extremely passive type of person. Anyways, you could have posted your own doormat images seperate and indenpent, to stress your own points without taking other people's posting and putting your spin jobs upon them, in a manner to make yourself look better. This is of course my own perception of what was going down. Then again, as I said I could be wrong, then again there's a lot to be said in post 181 of this thread.

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

So far, this is the best.. that I'm able to come up with here that applies to BDSM and vanilla contexts.

Doormat = Somebody that lacks the assertive discipline of boundary management.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

So far, this is the best.. that I'm able to come up with here that applies to BDSM and vanilla contexts.

Doormat = Somebody that lacks the assertive discipline of boundary management.

Well, then that would, in fact, qualify Carol. So now that we've figured that out, so what? Is that supposed to be a bad thing? What am I missing here?

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Initially, this is intended to invite discussion into the reasons and views concerning the word having such a negative connotation and what each of us views as the traits indicative of someone we would label a doormat.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Huge difference between being a "doormat" for one, which is a TPE, not doormat... and being a doormat for all.

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How much longer before the word Sociopath becomes a hot & trendy erotic label. Yummy!

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What is the difference between a doormat and a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?

~fast reply~
I haven't read the thread yet, in its entirety, but I will at some point..  I hope I'm not too late to chime in.

For myself -- I have always cherished my servants that others considered "doormats" -- yes, they yielded everything, from the moment they were first asked, without resentment... and I have always cherished the knowledge that they yielded out of their own joy in doing so, and were willing to be whatever I needed, whenever I needed it, without question and without any sense of perturbation at being asked to yield to such a "base" level... Frankly, j'ai adoré my precious "doormats", and "doormats" everywhere.

I think, though, that the difference asked about in the OP seems, at least in my mind, to hinge around whether the servant in question is open and vocal about hir complete yielding, or whether xhe is seen in public, yielding so thoroughly. You see, what we do in the confines of our home, or how we feel about ourselves or about our relationships has very little to do with how the outside world labels or perceives us. People have pre-conceived notions about what it "means" to be a certain thing, and they apply that definition, willy-nilly, with little or no regard for the actual preferences of the individual involved, and without any real understanding of what is happening in the other person's head.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times, during my early training with House Bladewing, I was told "you're just a doormat to those people", and "you -really- should see how you're being abused"... but the thing was, I had a goal, and achieving that goal meant fully embracing the challenging aspects of my chosen role... including the VERY challenging aspect of learning to yield -- something that even my spiritual teachers had struggled for a couple of decades to get through my thick skull. In "debasing myself" in the perception of the outside world, I actually became a stronger, healthier, and more aware person, with a new and better grasp of interpersonal relations, what I was capable of, and the full range of flexibility within me that can -now- be put into place towards other goals I have in my life... and yet, while I was in training, especially in the beginning, I was in the basest of situations, not allowed to make any decisions for myself including what I ate, wore, the work I did, the people I associated with, etc... and nobody could understand how I could -possibly- have -chosen- that life.

As I said earlier, I absolutely adore, and have profound respect for, the individual who is able to provide the sense of welcoming and the promise of warm hearth, family, and good friends that -I- associate with the "doormat".

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

• Somebody not opening up their mouth to inform me of a problem or issue because they did not want to upset me, lack of asserting or giving me the truth. As a Dominant I want to be aprised of things. I don't deal well somebody that lack backbone.
  
• Somebody that tips toes around me, like they are walking on egg shells, just tends to creep me out and makes me feel uncomfortable.
  
• Somebody that is fussing every friggen moment over if everything is alright, and up to my standards. My God women stop worrying about the number of ice cubes in my drink, or worrying about needing to refill it when it's at the half empty mark.
  
• Somebody that appears to be void of thought or opinion. I like to sound board my thoughts and ideas at times off somebody, perhaps see if they can see something in a different light and give me some insight. Damn Doormat, where's your mind cause I'd like to tap into it and harness it for a moment.
  
• Somebody trying to break their neck to open the door for me everywhere I go. It's okay back off, and let me take ahold and master opening the door.
  
• Somebody that seems to space out when I ask them, is there any place special you'd love to eat tonight. Instead of "I don't know" or "I don't care" every time I inquire into their preferences. God, drives me bat shit crazy to ask questions into an Empty Fracking Well.
  

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With an actual doormat, a dominant will never know (unless quite aware of power dynamics and looking very carefully and specifically) that he or she is a doormat. You'll just know that life is suddenly very ... nice. In all the ways you define "nice."

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its suddenly the cool, hip, new thing to be ...