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RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:28:42 AM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

Its suddenly the cool, hip, new thing to be ...

Not what I meant. I was objecting to the idea that a dominant would never know if a submissive was a doormat.

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 261

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:48:48 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

beth, show me one post where i called anyone fake.

what i am saying is that you may be a doormat to Merc... you are not a doormat in the definition that the world uses that term. as much as you may want to be that, as sexy as you may believe it is, you arent. you are His doormat, as you want to be, as he desires you to be... and thats perfectly fine. Thats TPE, not being a doormat. when we take something so detrimental to society and suddenly make it the cool thing to be, problems will arise.

be his doormat beth, i applaud you for that ability. but lable it correctly. sometimes labels do have social, psychological and legal remifications. you are his slave, as such he defines who you are, not me. i have not attempted to define anyone's relationships on these boards. all i have attempted to do was define a term that has been around longer than many of the women claiming ownership or said term.

Here is the thing, some people do not understand how a sub can call their dom "daddy". They think of this term as only reserved for one's own biological father, and they are squicked out by the term being used in the D/s sense because in their mind it is a misappropriation of that term.. and some of these very same people get up in arms when we do not use the term doormat the same way they do, so we are supposedly "wrong" and want to change their kink or relationship style... very fucking amusing...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 262

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:51:25 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

beth, show me one post where i called anyone fake.

every post where you insist that YOUR definition is the One-True-Way and deny ANY other's perception/use of the term.

quote:

what i am saying is that you may be a doormat to Merc... you are not a doormat in the definition that the world uses that term.

this slave has very much been a doormat, over the course of her life, under just about everyone's definition of the term---even the one's who believe that the mere action of submitting to another's desires renders one a doormat.

quote:

as much as you may want to be that, as sexy as you may believe it is, you arent.

as much as you want to be the world's spokesperson regarding definitions of terms used by the folks who are discussing their lives here, and as smart as you believe you appear by taking on that role, you aren't.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 263

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:54:39 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

next shall we redefine a rapist? pedaphile?

you may not like the definition... and it may be because it doesnt fit what you want it too... but you cant redefine green to fit the color blue either.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 264

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:04:33 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

next shall we redefine a rapist? pedaphile?

you may not like the definition... and it may be because it doesnt fit what you want it too... but you cant redefine green to fit the color blue either.

nah, you and the others can just continue to mock folks when they post positively about their experiences and their lives...this slave would rather discuss the subtle nuances that can cause some to perceive a certain shade of green as blue...so she's off to mingle with artists.
have fun!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 265

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:06:09 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

chuckles

you have just proved my point, beth. a doormat wouldnt be arguing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 266

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:17:58 AM

Lucienne

Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
See..she called me petty for pointing out with a picture the opposing side to another picture that was used in a petty way as well..The mere fact that she took the time to do that in and of itself a petty action. All the while not taking into consideration that I didn't post the original picture..maybe she did and just wanted to rib me for some reason..Only she knows.

What an odd interpretation. I didn't call you anything. I said the "amore" doormat was poshlost. And it is. Just... fantastically vulgar. You apparently looked up the word but your definition is off. It's not synonymous with "petty." If I wanted to call you petty I would. I used poshlost because it is accurate and because there is no single english word that captures the same meaning. (Also, it's a cool concept that I encourage others to learn about). "Self-satisfied vulgarity" is a decent synopsis. And it's kind of funny to me that you appear to be completely clueless that your picture could come across as shallow and trashy rather than sweet and lovey-dovey. From my perspective at least, posting that picture did not communicate what you apparently intended it to communicate.

I'm rather fond of doormats. Nice, practical things. I've never taken to referring to people as doormats so I can't get too worked up over fleshing out the analogy as people have done here. I do think that your posting of that horrendous picture was taking the analogy into new and unpleasant directions.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 267

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:22:24 AM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline

From reading all the posts in this thread, it seems to me that the common gist is a person who is considered a doormat is one who will allow everyone and anyone to use them in a non consensual way...ie- walk all over them without disregard for that person's feelings, thought, wants, needs, etc.

So when a person is in a D/s or M/s relationship and they are quite happy with their partner...how can that be a negative thing when they refer to themselves as a doormat? Thus when a few nay sayers condemn the term doormat then in reality they are passing judgment on that person and their dynamic they have forged with the one they serve. We have no right to do that.

The stupidity to all this is "we" have no issues being referred to as a piece of property to a master, we have no problems when our dominants call us a slut/tramp/bitch/pet and we get a naughty thrill being called these labels from our owners. Not every person will allow those labels to be used no matter how their own personal dynamic works, so in this situation doormat is just another term that works for many and doesn't work for many. So if a person like beth is considered a doormat in many ways so be it, from what I have seen on the boards regarding her relationship with Merc is one that many envy....based on the fact that they work their relationship in a way which applies to them and makes them both happy.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 268

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:27:11 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Is carol conducting herself according to boundaries you set. or is she off busy serving and doing things for everybody else in the world such as friends, family, neighbors and whoever else?

Well, you have obviously taken this to extreme, but the simple answer to your question is, "Yes, this is a constant struggle for her." She does pretty well if I set and reinforce firm commands, but in the absence of that, my intentions can and do get overwritten by pretty much anyone.... usually not egregiously so, but it happens regularly. And, just to carry this example on more, yes, her very natural inclination to submit has it's down sides. But then again, don't all personality traits come with downsides... as well as upsides? As a manager at work, I said to people regularly that for all of us, our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. The whole trick is getting into a situation where the trait is a plus, not a minus. From my standpoint, I cherish Carol's doormat-ey nature. I see it as a huge asset to her and us and I seek to strengthen that behavior for the most part. It becomes a vast strength when we discuss a TPE style relationship.

Just for the record, I'm using the term "doormat" only since it seems to be so popular here. I've been observing this behavior pretty closely now and I have other less pejorative descriptions for it. In general, as much as many of you would like to look at this personality type and vilify it, I happen to like it and I'm sticking with it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 269

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:29:12 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

welcome to the party, wolf. the debate wasnt about how we view things. i started the comment out on how the world views it. at that point, after given a definition of how the world views it, many chimed in claiming that status. i truly dont believe they realized what they were claiming.

a doormat is used, or up for use, by all.

a slave, submissive can be a doormat... they are not mutually exclusive.

even a prostitute isnt a doormat, they still charge when the john would rather not pay.

you can be a "doormat" to one... but that has already been defined as a TPE relationship. no need to toss another lable onto something that has one already.

now, it would be interesting to see how many are truly doormats, how many would disregard their owner's commands to please others, how many allow everyone in their lives to dictate their actions... not just one.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

Post #: 270

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 3:59:51 PM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

welcome to the party, wolf. the debate wasnt about how we view things. i started the comment out on how the world views it. at that point, after given a definition of how the world views it, many chimed in claiming that status. i truly dont believe they realized what they were claiming.

It may very well be that some don't realize what they are claiming as their own yet I also like to think that many do. Maybe it's my way of trying not to become so cynical that I think in one way only...I try to keep an open mind as much as possible even when it comes to shattering my own narrow minded thinking.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 271

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 6:24:57 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its suddenly the cool, hip, new thing to be ...

and for some, it's suddenly the cool, hip, new thing to create a "One-True-Definition" for and then proceed to mock those that fit it...and call fake on those who don't.

Perhaps we should take a difinition and context use tally?

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 272

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 6:35:38 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

next shall we redefine a rapist? pedaphile?

you may not like the definition... and it may be because it doesnt fit what you want it too... but you cant redefine green to fit the color blue either.

that, to me, is the absolutely most crazy thing i have ever read on here.

define porn. define fat, skinny.

define "easy". is it someone who fucks everyone but you? or someone who fucks everyone including you.

define insane. crazy.

some words are set in stone, with one twue definition. murderer, rapist, absolutely. if they are used in the proper context, one is someone who murdered another human being, one is someone who forced someone else to perform sex acts against their will (or something close to that-lol-i aint googling the exact definitions).

depending on who you ask, being a doormat could have good or bad meaning. just as slut could, bitch, cunt, whore, player, diva. all these words mean something different to many people.

the fact that you continue to argue a point, especially here, that for some(many) is the definition of what makes their relationship wonderful and makes it work.....

you show you are a girl.....there is only one definition of girl, so you must be too young to be on this site, cause if you were old enough, you would be tazzywoman right?

i dont mean this as an attack, but good grief, sometimes it is so easy to say "i can see your side of this and hmmmm, perhaps i should allow you to enjoy your doormat or doormattiness and just not worry my purdy lil head about others who are happy".

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 273

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:03:33 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

How much longer before the word Sociopath becomes a hot & trendy erotic label. Yummy!

The correct term is antisocial personality.
To have a conscience, to have the ability to feel for another human, to avoid harm to another because you care, (rather than because it would get you in trouble) is not so easily changed once we have become adults. Severe situations like war or the prison system certainly can create an antisocial personality, but those are extremes.

Nah.. people are still using the sociopath and psychopath to label people by (without clinical evaluation).. i.e. he's a psychopath. It's a word that is tossed around in naming calling a degree of certain meaning. Mind you this meaning is not the same according to how it's applied professionally. Still the word has become adopted and used (misused) by many people.

Basically it's become a relative word used by relativists. One people who appears to be sociopath/psychopath might not appear to be as such to another people. All this foregoes the original meaning/context of the word even. Now we can remind people that use of this word is wrong but does it serious change anything at all? Not really because people have become so adjusted/conditioned to being relativists.

What amazes me is that people engage in circular arguments, spining in relativisim, instead to taking a moment to stop, and list out all the possible uses/context and meanings of a word. The use which ever established context/meaning for debate, to keep the focus narrowed in.

I will stress this, that the concept of Slave or M/s relationships has become rather watered down over the years for some people, because of relativisim being injected into debates.

relativisism will erode things, words, meaning, even moral bases, if not used with care. Also being Relative does not lend itself to unification nor clarity. It leads to a form of Anarchy.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/27/2010 7:31:57 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 274

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:05:10 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Is carol conducting herself according to boundaries you set. or is she off busy serving and doing things for everybody else in the world such as friends, family, neighbors and whoever else?

Well, you have obviously taken this to extreme, but the simple answer to your question is, "Yes, this is a constant struggle for her." She does pretty well if I set and reinforce firm commands, but in the absence of that, my intentions can and do get overwritten by pretty much anyone.... usually not egregiously so, but it happens regularly. And, just to carry this example on more, yes, her very natural inclination to submit has it's down sides. But then again, don't all personality traits come with downsides... as well as upsides? As a manager at work, I said to people regularly that for all of us, our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. The whole trick is getting into a situation where the trait is a plus, not a minus. From my standpoint, I cherish Carol's doormat-ey nature. I see it as a huge asset to her and us and I seek to strengthen that behavior for the most part. It becomes a vast strength when we discuss a TPE style relationship.

Just for the record, I'm using the term "doormat" only since it seems to be so popular here. I've been observing this behavior pretty closely now and I have other less pejorative descriptions for it. In general, as much as many of you would like to look at this personality type and vilify it, I happen to like it and I'm sticking with it.

Dude, guess many others have taken to this extreme!! Even authors of Books and such.. There's quiet a bit posted on the Net even about it! In fact, one of the articles Tazzygirl posted.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 275

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:23:56 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

A Logical Injection for a moment

One of the things in the OP was to talk about the negative connotations of this word "doormat". Because this word has some different contect and uses. However this is a bonified meaning of the word,

1. a person who is physically weak and ineffectual [syn: weakling, wuss]

Now how many people like to be thought/viewed as being physically weak and ineffectual, by mistake because they are being called a Doormat or referred to as such?

Clearly, this is not a postive connotation or meaning to have affixed to a person.

Even more so for the Submissives or slaves that express the degree of strength it takes for submission. This becomes a contridiction of terms and use.

However, it clearly does leave room for somebody who is physically weak and ineffectual to be a submissive in a D/s relationship. Yes, they could be considered a Doormat Submissive too. Fair combination use of the words. Now this is logical.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/27/2010 7:35:52 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 276

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:50:40 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

Another Logical injection for a moment

Consider this well known meaning;

2. a mat placed outside an exterior door for wiping the shoes before entering [syn: welcome mat]

Clearly in regards to objectification, where a submissive is treated in the same manner of a doormat (with out being treated in the same manner as another object, say a foot stool). Where as, they physically lay down in front of a door, or someplace and they actually are used for somebody to literally whip their feet upon. They are clearly being used as a "Doormat".

Hands down, can't be beat combination of the word.

However, in regards... when exploring the definition from the figurative sense.

a mat placed outside an exterior door for wiping the shoes before entering [syn: welcome mat]

This connotates that the doormat is available for other people or anybody coming to the house to use. The location of the mat is not in the confines of the bedroom. It's not limited to personal/private use. This is where many people fail to see to appreciate the full literal figurative meaning. (only part of it). Doormats are there for Anybody to use.

Who are people that use doormats? Friends, Family, Neighbors and other people coming and going from the household.

Sincerely, let's engage in this debate from the "Full literal/figurative Meaning" of the Word of Doormat. Food for thought here.

Plus, people don't ask for permission to use a doormat (ab absurdo), while generally people will ask for permission to use a bathroom in your house, or ask for a drink of water. Nobody asks, excuse me do you mind if I use your doormat.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/27/2010 8:05:12 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 277

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:50:54 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

The thing is this thread was a continuation of another thread in which a dom proclaimed that all submissives are "doormats". Those of us objecting to that term to refer to us were called "intolerant". Now people redefine words all of the time to describe their reality, I have no problem with that. I have no issue with embracing a negative label and using it to take pride in your identity, but the fact of the matter is that most other people aren't going to subscribe to your new definition... and that is okay too.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 278

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 7:52:16 PM

IdiotMale

Posts: 132
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

In my opinion a true slave is a doormat.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 279

RE: Doormats - 2/27/2010 8:21:19 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IdiotMale
In my opinion a true slave is a doormat.

Do you expect people to ask permission first before using your slave or just simply use your slave like your slave was a dootmat set outside your door? Are your friends, family, neighbors and whoever else allowed to wipe their feet on your slave? People don't generally ask for permission to use a doormat.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/27/2010 8:23:00 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to IdiotMale)

Post #: 280

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