RE: Afraid To Be A Slave

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heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 7:19:48 AM)
Hawkwindblues, Thank you for your reply. Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) as most Dominants that i have met seem to require of their s-types. And while, yes there is a fear of giving everything and having it either not reciprocated or having after exposing everything to another person, then being left for not being enough. As the s-type, i can't demand that they reciprocate, i can only look for someone who is already willing to share that part of themselves.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 8:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Hawkwindblues, Thank you for your reply. Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) quote: And while, yes there is a fear of giving everything and having it either not reciprocated or having after exposing everything to another person, then being left for not being enough. Just try and remember how much better off you are for not being trapped in a relationship otherwise with that person. quote: i can't demand that they reciprocate, i can only look for someone who is already willing to share that part of themselves. That is true for all of us...we simply have to let go of those who can't and find someone who can and just not settle for anything less worthy.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 8:47:31 AM)
I just jumped in on this thread now, and I honestly haven't read much, but I will comment on this point. quote: Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) as most Dominants that i have met seem to require of their s-types. My experience is different. I would not say rare. I would say minority, but not rare, and I'm not limiting my observation to Dominant men, and I'm not even limiting it to men. People of any gender and on any side of the kneel who are able to emotionally open themselves up to their partner are the minority, but they do exist. It's difficult, but I find that we have to be clear that we want this and truly work on ourselves being emotionally open all the while knowing our boundaries. Last September, I briefly dated a man who right off the bat assured me that he was a great communicator. What this meant was that he was a big talker about his feelings but a very bad listener. I think it is all the soul searching and reading that I've done around the topic of emotional intelligence that lead me to pick up on this quite quickly. What I often recommend to people is to sharpen their analytical tools when dating. It cuts through a lot of the potential drama. - LA

UniqueRaven -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 9:14:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Thank you for your reply. Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) as most Dominants that i have met seem to require of their s-types. And while, yes there is a fear of giving everything and having it either not reciprocated or having after exposing everything to another person, then being left for not being enough. As the s-type, i can't demand that they reciprocate, i can only look for someone who is already willing to share that part of themselves. It is interesting, it is my experience that the reason that most male D-types expect their sub/slave to be so open and vulnerable is because they are actually very sensitive and emotionally open themselves - they just don't express it in the same way that us sub/slave women do, or in the way that we might expect. They often hold the skill of empathic intuition - and using that skill and that need they want to draw "everything" out of her. Many D-types are very sensitive to their sub/slave - her moods, her actions, her thoughts, her feelings, and so on. They want to know everything about her because of that need, not because that they just want to "manipulate" her with it. It is understanding the difference between the way men and women express their emotions. And i've also found that most male D-types will open up emotionally, if you provide a calm, safe, understanding, and nurturing space to do so. It's one of the reasons they need us subs and slaves. And it is the art of the sub/slave to provide that space.....and to respect it, and keep it safe. It is one of the reasons i am a very private person, and protect my Owner's privacy as well - you will never find me discussing any of "our business" with anyone, ever. And again, between you and me i really think they need that space to open up to their girl, even if they won't admit it. [;)] And yes, it isn't something we can "demand" - but we can create the condition in which he feels safe sharing, that intimate and special space together, and personally i think that's even more wonderful. [:)]

SimplyMichael -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 10:22:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven It is one of the reasons i am a very private person, and protect my Owner's privacy as well - you will never find me discussing any of "our business" with anyone, ever. And again, between you and me i really think they need that space to open up to their girl, even if they won't admit it. [;)] And yes, it isn't something we can "demand" - but we can create the condition in which he feels safe sharing, that intimate and special space together, and personally i think that's even more wonderful. [:)] Don't make the mistake of thinking male/female or dominant/submisive...think unique. I for example, have a lot of female energy and am quite open about my "stuff" in the past on the boards here. But you are right, creating that environment IS wonderful...and well worth seeking out.

TxRanger -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 10:51:25 AM)
My experience has been no matter how much women say they want men to open up to them, they really don't. They find the strong silent type attractive and enjoy the pursuit of having a man open up to them more, than the actual act of a man opening up to them. And that's a shame. But it's part of how we are wired. Men, especially Dominant Men fear revealing to much because it may be perceived as weakness and women are attracted to strength not weakness. Not only for their own protection and survival, it also means their off spring will most likely be strong and not only survive but prosper. One reason Dominant men prefer submissive women is because they feel they have more control over them leaving and seeking another mate. Because of this feeling of security, real or imagined, Dominant Men are more likely to, and feel more freedom to be emotionally available, than men who have less control over their women. Dominant Men are also less likely to feel their mate is competing with them, again giving them the freedom to be more open.

TxRanger -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 10:59:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika What I often recommend to people is to sharpen their analytical tools when dating. It cuts through a lot of the potential drama. - LA Excellent advice. Unfortunately, just when we need our analytical skills most we are often ruled by emotion.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 11:46:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Hawkwindblues, Thank you for your reply. Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) quote: And while, yes there is a fear of giving everything and having it either not reciprocated or having after exposing everything to another person, then being left for not being enough. Just try and remember how much better off you are for not being trapped in a relationship otherwise with that person. quote: i can't demand that they reciprocate, i can only look for someone who is already willing to share that part of themselves. That is true for all of us...we simply have to let go of those who can't and find someone who can and just not settle for anything less worthy. Thank you for the reply Michael, and while i wholeheartedly agree that i am better off not trapped in a relationship with someone who is emotionally closed off. i do have a question about the portion that i bolded. To me, being the person that i am, being the submissive personality that i am, being as obedient as i am, whoever is my D/M type can in fact demand that i be emotionally open and vulnerable. If i were told to talk about something when i was emotionally raw and wanted to hide and heal, i would make myself talk. Whereas, from the position of giving the authority to another, i don't see myself in a position to "demand" such a thing from another. Ultimately i think i understand what you meant, that if someone will not open up emotionally even when asked, eventually one has to make the decision to move on for one's own good. Is that what you meant? Thank you again for your reply, heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 11:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika I just jumped in on this thread now, and I honestly haven't read much, but I will comment on this point. quote: Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) as most Dominants that i have met seem to require of their s-types. My experience is different. I would not say rare. I would say minority, but not rare, and I'm not limiting my observation to Dominant men, and I'm not even limiting it to men. People of any gender and on any side of the kneel who are able to emotionally open themselves up to their partner are the minority, but they do exist. It's difficult, but I find that we have to be clear that we want this and truly work on ourselves being emotionally open all the while knowing our boundaries. Last September, I briefly dated a man who right off the bat assured me that he was a great communicator. What this meant was that he was a big talker about his feelings but a very bad listener. I think it is all the soul searching and reading that I've done around the topic of emotional intelligence that lead me to pick up on this quite quickly. What I often recommend to people is to sharpen their analytical tools when dating. It cuts through a lot of the potential drama. - LA Good point, and one that i needed to rehear (if that is a word) because i have been focusing on it being hard to find a man who will do that, when in reality it is just hard to find anyone who will do that. Thank you for your reply, heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 12:45:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxRanger My experience has been no matter how much women say they want men to open up to them, they really don't. They find the strong silent type attractive and enjoy the pursuit of having a man open up to them more, than the actual act of a man opening up to them. And that's a shame. But it's part of how we are wired. Men, especially Dominant Men fear revealing to much because it may be perceived as weakness and women are attracted to strength not weakness. Not only for their own protection and survival, it also means their off spring will most likely be strong and not only survive but prosper. One reason Dominant men prefer submissive women is because they feel they have more control over them leaving and seeking another mate. Because of this feeling of security, real or imagined, Dominant Men are more likely to, and feel more freedom to be emotionally available, than men who have less control over their women. Dominant Men are also less likely to feel their mate is competing with them, again giving them the freedom to be more open. Wow, thank you for this reply. It was so helpful. i had never heard this perspective or thought of it this way. Actually, i have had the option of belonging to a strong silent type who was emotionally closed who really flips by submissive switch but i turned him down and walked away. Thank you so much for this reply, it was exceedingly helpful to hear this from a Dominant Man's perspective, i really appreciate it. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 12:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven It is one of the reasons i am a very private person, and protect my Owner's privacy as well - you will never find me discussing any of "our business" with anyone, ever. And again, between you and me i really think they need that space to open up to their girl, even if they won't admit it. [;)] And yes, it isn't something we can "demand" - but we can create the condition in which he feels safe sharing, that intimate and special space together, and personally i think that's even more wonderful. [:)] Don't make the mistake of thinking male/female or dominant/submisive...think unique. I for example, have a lot of female energy and am quite open about my "stuff" in the past on the boards here. But you are right, creating that environment IS wonderful...and well worth seeking out. Wanted to comment on both what Unique said and what Michael said. Thank you both so much. Michael you are actually one of the examples i have in my head that Dominant Men can be open and honest with their "stuff" and Unique, you are so right, maybe we can't demand, but we can create an atmosphere where it is safe to be real. Thank you both so much, heartfelt

osf -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 12:49:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Thank you for your reply. Not trying to make some sort of sexist comment, just speaking from my own personal experience with the opposite sex, i have found, it is the rare man who is as emotionally open and vulnerable to his partner(s) as most Dominants that i have met seem to require of their s-types. And while, yes there is a fear of giving everything and having it either not reciprocated or having after exposing everything to another person, then being left for not being enough. As the s-type, i can't demand that they reciprocate, i can only look for someone who is already willing to share that part of themselves. It is interesting, it is my experience that the reason that most male D-types expect their sub/slave to be so open and vulnerable is because they are actually very sensitive and emotionally open themselves - they just don't express it in the same way that us sub/slave women do, or in the way that we might expect. They often hold the skill of empathic intuition - and using that skill and that need they want to draw "everything" out of her. Many D-types are very sensitive to their sub/slave - her moods, her actions, her thoughts, her feelings, and so on. They want to know everything about her because of that need, not because that they just want to "manipulate" her with it. It is understanding the difference between the way men and women express their emotions. And i've also found that most male D-types will open up emotionally, if you provide a calm, safe, understanding, and nurturing space to do so. It's one of the reasons they need us subs and slaves. And it is the art of the sub/slave to provide that space.....and to respect it, and keep it safe. It is one of the reasons i am a very private person, and protect my Owner's privacy as well - you will never find me discussing any of "our business" with anyone, ever. And again, between you and me i really think they need that space to open up to their girl, even if they won't admit it. [;)] And yes, it isn't something we can "demand" - but we can create the condition in which he feels safe sharing, that intimate and special space together, and personally i think that's even more wonderful. [:)] I agree with you on some of the reasons I want to understand her, with me it's an abiding curiosity to understand this creature I dedicat so much time and care too and the desire to control her. But I am reserved by nature and have never really opened up to anyone, so call it unfair if you will but i don't want her to know me to the extent I want to know her, nor have I found in the past that it was necessary.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 1:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf I agree with you on some of the reasons I want to understand her, with me it's an abiding curiosity to understand this creature I dedicated so much time and care too and the desire to control her. But I am reserved by nature and have never really opened up to anyone, so call it unfair if you will but i don't want her to know me to the extent I want to know her, nor have I found in the past that it was necessary. *snipped for brevity i have no problem with an authority based relationship, feeling unfair or maybe even being unfair at times. Actually i rather expect nothing else, that there will be times when it is unfair. That is just part of life, as well as in my opinion, part of an authority dynamic. (Am not saying it has to be that way for anyone else, it is part of my expectations and also part of the reality of my past D/s relationships.) i just have realized for me to feel connected with someone and also feel safe laying myself bare so to speak, i need to know the other person on an intimate level where communication goes both ways and can and does encompass the tough stuff. Thank you for your reply, heartfelt

LadyAngelika -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 2:26:05 PM)
quote: Good point, and one that i needed to rehear (if that is a word) because i have been focusing on it being hard to find a man who will do that, when in reality it is just hard to find anyone who will do that. My pleasure. And I will tell you, that once you decide that you want to surround yourself with people who are emotionally available and you send that vibe out, you will be amazed at how many you will meet. In my day-to-day life, I will only be friends with people who are emotionally available. That said, I have quite a few good friends :-) - LA

lally2 -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 3:03:01 PM)
i have yet to meet a Dominant man who is emotionally available to start with. but over time they do start to open up and reveal their softer, gentler side. i think that sometimes the D guys are blugeoned a bit by stereotypical expectations to be a hard task master, austere, emotionally distant, unswerving, firm and strict. quite a few times we've had starting Dominants write to the boards, asking if its alright to be 'nice', caring, kind, thoughtful - because theyre being told by some unspeakable herd of harpies somewhere out there in the ether that to be nice, kind and thoughtful isnt being Dominant enough. ill go along with what others say about Dominants wishing to know and understand our internal and emotional workings in order to direct and guide us better. and ill go along with whoever it was who said, a Dominant who can understand our emotional workings, understand our psyche and wish to know us inside and out, has to be, by definition, emotionally intelligent at the very least. even if they are not able to expose their under bellie isnt it possible that exposing ours and working through our emotions there is a sort of surrogacy going on. heartfelt, maybe the unfairness isnt so unfair when you look at it like that. and i have to thank you for this thread, because it has made me think and see things a little more clearly too.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 4:11:51 PM)
lally, Thank you so much for your comments on this thread. It is nice to know that i am not the only one gleaning some excellent information from the great posts people have been making. heartfelt

Hawkwindblues -> RE: Afraid To Be A Slave (3/7/2010 5:31:41 PM)
Heartfeltsub Thank you for your answer, it gave me the much needed insight i missed, because the "can not demand" or expect or talk about or set my borders or lead my prerelational negotiations as part of some s-types is something i tend to forget.

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