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RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/15/2004 7:33:19 AM

Maltor

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NoCalOwner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Draxxe -
A Dominant may serve a sub in a sort of symbiotic relationship. Each party gets something they need from the other.
However a Master does NOT serve a slave. To make that leap requires total commitment, and any serving that may have been done when the relationship was at the Dom/sub level now must be replaced by TRUST. Trust from the slave that the Master will consider his/her needs and wants while satisfying his/her own.
The slave is owned property, there to be of service, not to serve.

Webster's Dictionary, "serve" -- 6a : to furnish or supply with something needed or desired. 12 : to provide services that benefit or help
Webster's, "service," -- 2C : contribution to the welfare of others

My slave gets housing, clothing and food from me. Because I am giving her things which she needs, because I am contributing to her welfare, Webster's says that those things are services. It says nothing about my intent in doing so, about whether she has any right to expect those things, or anything else. Until such a time as I take away her clothes, throw her out of the house and tell her to go dumpster dive for food, the dictionary says that I am providing service. So while I agree that being an owner does not necessarily entail providing any service, realistically, how many do not? Even prisoners in forced labor death camps are given housing, a ragged uniform and an occasional scrap of food.

NoCalOwner - I rarely put stock in definitions written by someone else... I usually like to use my own views to decide what something means for me... but then again I'm big on perceptions... but I do so enjoy your posts... well written and well said.

My take on all this is that I do not serve Syn's wants... I do serve her needs... I will take care of things she needs taken care of, and will sometimes give her things she wants... if it happens to coincide with what I want. Reason for this is dynamics for the most part... but if I do not take care of things she needs, she can no longer serve and to me... it would be a failure on my side of things.

M.

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Don't get upset if I disagree, it doesn't mean I am right... only I see it differently.

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

Post #: 21

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/15/2004 5:48:49 PM

WayHome

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This abhorence of the word "serve" in relation to someone on top is just silly.

J, in my first draft of the letter about sea captains I quoted the same Navy rhetoric that you did: "Authority can be delegated but not responsibility" I don't see how you can believe that statement supports the idea that a captain DOESN'T serve his crew.

I own my truck. I have complete control over it and can push it off a cliff if I chose. Yet I serve even my truck. Samples of such service include oil changes, gasoline, wiper fluid, and unfortunately a repalcement transmission. I didn't do the work myself but I payed for it and I took it in. Thanks to regular service of my truck, it serves the purpose of taking me where I want to go, exceptions for that transmission crap. Even if I chose to do none of these things for my truck, I would be serving as the end of it's function. Even if you truly believe a slave is nothing more than an object, you still serve it.

Some of the linguistic gymnastics get absurd. Please take No Cal's lead and pick up a dictionary from time to time.

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

Post #: 22

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/17/2004 3:09:35 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Even prisoners in forced labor death camps are given housing, a ragged uniform and an occasional scrap of food.

Reading some real life accounts of those camps, the rations of those items were calculated scientifically to generate the best output. Ultimately, in this grotesque and obviously beyond what we are dealing with in our life, the 'used up' slaves were killed and replaced by a fresher crop.

I hate literal dictionary definitions. It would GE great if each specific word had one specific definition, but alas, few do. And until we adopt Orwellian 'New-Speak' or telepathic communication we are all doomed to miscommunicate our true intention.

Using my own example, when beth read this she commented that she assumes she'll be kept alive for as long as the service she provides exceeds the effort it take by me to feed, cloth and house her. Ummmm, I guess in some context that's correct! Except I assured her, that I would try to sell her to another Master before having to send her to a rendering plant. After all, there is still the return on investment to consider. Does anyone know if a slave depreciates or appreciates?

Merc & beth

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

Post #: 23

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/17/2004 4:48:04 PM

NoCalOwner

Posts: 241
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Does anyone know if a slave depreciates or appreciates?

I know that mine appreciates, since I had her get one degree last year (with highest honors, she got a nice reward for that!), and a second one this year. Now most of her otherwise unallocated time is divided between working out in the gym and practicing cabaret-style bellydance, while she looks for good opportunities to put some work experience on her resume. So I guess it all depends on what you're willing to invest.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 24

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/18/2004 7:10:27 PM

Thanatosian

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline

quote:

Does anyone know if a slave depreciates or appreciates?

I would think that would depend on her Master - does he enhance her/build up her value (education, talents, etc) or degrade her/tear her down (destroy her self esteem, abuse her, let her top from the bottom, let her become complacent in her slavery, etc)?

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/19/2004 6:08:52 AM

camigirl

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline

Hi,
im new here and saw this post and just wanted to say YES! im not sure "serve" is the right word but a Dominant definantly "meets" her needs...thats what makes him Dominant!

Thanks for letting me share
camigirl

(in reply to draxxe)

Post #: 26

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/24/2004 7:37:25 AM

sorriah

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Joined: 1/24/2004
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if serving is teaching and training the submissive, then yes . i think O/one must satisfy E/each O/other to be complete.Without both pieces of the puzzle, is it complete? ~sorriah

(in reply to draxxe)

Post #: 27

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/24/2004 9:52:32 AM

MrThorns

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Joined: 6/4/2004
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I think there is a huge difference between "service" to another and being responsible for another's well being. The analogy of a captain taking care of his crew doesn't strike me as service to the crew. The captain has a responsibility to the ship and the crew in order to complete his mission. The crew serves the captain due to his legal authority. The captain is responsible for the accomplishment of his mission and the welfare of his crew. That's his duty. He doesn't serve the crew... He governs them.

Can this be seen as service by some people? Of course. We all seem to have a knack for defining things differently.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to sorriah)

Post #: 28

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/25/2004 5:53:30 AM

cynnacent1

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Massachusetts
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In many ways B/both "serve" each other which in return "serves" the needs of B/both. When a Dom is pleased by their sub, their sub is pleased to serve them. When a sub's needs are met by their Dom, a sub is happy to serve their needs. It's that YingYang thing going on.

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

Post #: 29

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 9/26/2004 4:50:31 AM

MattyP

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Joined: 9/17/2004
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Just gonna repeat what most have already said.

I actually take this one step further. My own philosophy is that, as opposed to the Master's, it is the SUBMISSIVE's happiness that comes first and foremost. It is only then they will be able to serve you whole heartedly in return. This does not mean that I am not strict; the rules I lay down from the beginning are well enforced, and I am adamant about discipline. But I am never oblivious to my pet's problems.

No doubt, this is a very fine line to walk, and it takes alot of practice and even more judgement to perform successfully. I am still trying to pin it down after three or four years of online Dominance with varying levels of serious relationships.

(in reply to cynnacent1)

Post #: 30

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 10/2/2004 3:50:54 PM

draxxe

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: draxxe

Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive,,, This is a current topic we have in the chat room in Old Guard and wanted to share it with you!

I personnely say yes so bring on the bashing and after you do I will tell you why!

Draxxe

Ok I am a male Dominant who had my ex for over 11yrs after she wore my collar 4 yrs I honored her with my name. {just so you understand were i am comming from.} In the time i was with kim i learned everything i did i had to think of her needs as well as my desires, granted if i told her to run out in front of a 18 wheeler she would have but that wouldnt have been useful. Keeping her needs in mind over the years i learned was a form of service, to her and her son, was paying medical, clothes, food, living, school, ect. I was also giving her guidance and support and training her what i liked and did not like, taught her what pain was and how to overcome it taught her how to fight and how to love. she became a woman who was sucure in life and happy with what we shared, Now if you tell me that is not serving somone fine that is up for debait, but to me my honor tells me a submissive serves a Dominant so the Dominant will serve a submissive in the ways the submissive cant do. after all if they could do it alone they wouldnt be submissive would they. Too many times people assume i speak of controlling in the mannerism of Dominant, that is not the case, after all a well trained slave needs not to be told you want coffee do they, after all if you say you do not serve your slave then i find it hard to see your slave trained,,just more food for thought.

thru thought brings questions, thru questions brings knowledge
Draxxe

< Message edited by draxxe -- 10/2/2004 3:53:58 PM >

(in reply to draxxe)

Post #: 31

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 10/2/2004 3:56:01 PM

draxxe

Posts: 15
Joined: 2/4/2004
Status: offline

depreciates
lol and thanks my friend for the post

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 10/3/2004 11:59:57 PM

WayHome

Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Does anyone know if a slave depreciates or appreciates?

Something worth talking about from a thread otherwise degenrating to a tedious argument about semantics...

A slave can appreciate or depreciate (and if she "appreciates" her treatment, does that mean she's really just a submissive LOL). In my own philosophy, the degree to which a slave appreciates is the measure of the quality of her master and likewise the degree to which she depreciates shows his unworthiness. Not everyone lives and plays that way, but it's definitely how I rate myself as a dominant....

Leto

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/22/2007 6:37:07 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Let me see if I have this logic down. The Dominant serves and submits to the bottom, right? So if a switch who has been submitting, starts Dominating, they stop dominating and start submitting? Or should we call sub missives Dominants and dominants submissive?

Call me crazy but you ARE admitting that someone is submitting to someone so why not call the someone who is being submitted to the Dominant and the Dominant who is submitting the submissive?

(in reply to WayHome)

Post #: 34

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/22/2007 7:53:01 PM

MadRabbit

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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Fast Reply To No One In Particular.

Pragmatically, as the one in authority, I have to make responsible decisions that serve both people's needs and wants in the relationship.

This doesn't equate to me serving or submitting to the submissive in the same way she serves and submits to me.

It's just simply responsible and benevolent use of authority.

A contigency of the submissive or slave being in the relationship with me? That's one way to look at it.

However, if the benevolence, responsibility, and consideration of the slave's wants and needs comes naturally from my own sense of character, then what does it matter?

(Edited to Add : I am wondering now why I am repling to a thread thats 3 years old)

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 11/22/2007 7:54:28 PM >

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 35

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/22/2007 7:55:55 PM

SirJohnMandevill

Posts: 546
Joined: 11/10/2005
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Gee, I guess I haven't given this subject much thought. I was too busy actually enjoying the D/s relationship with my former sub, rather than analyzing it! I hope my next submissive and I fall so easily into the roles we both love.

Les (illegitimate son of Rhee Son Ing and Sophie S. Tree)

_____________________________

Iam an eroticist
I am a fully eroticized being
No more neuroses
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With the deviant ingredient
---The B-52s

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 36

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/23/2007 12:36:54 AM

Lumus

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Joined: 9/16/2007
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"There go my people, and I must follow them, for I am their leader."

Simple definition: when you take on a role of responsibility in any capacity, you are responsible for others, sometimes before yourself; and then responsible for yourself as well.

So do Dom/mes serve a submissive? I've always thought so. Power = responsibility = servitude in the sense that you must serve not only as an example, but you must tend to those whom you command. Otherwise, you're begging for resentment, the cruel but predictable dictator of the roles of power as illustrated nicely not only by Frank Herbert, but by a fella named Nietzsche - both of whom I'm partial to.

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(in reply to SirJohnMandevill)

Post #: 37

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/23/2007 3:36:09 AM

xoxi

Posts: 1066
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelthighhighs

it is my opinion that we serve each other just in different roles and in different ways. as someone else said, it is the responsibility of the Dominant to also meet the subs needs, if they're not met chances are they either will not do their best or will soon leave.

Agreed 100%

(in reply to angelthighhighs)

Post #: 38

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/23/2007 5:40:52 AM

wisteriaV

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

"Question here becomes, why do some Dom/Masters think themselves above meeting the needs of the one that gives them pleasure?"

Why not....?

Somehow it is become a paradigm to some folks that people might accept this as their desires and manifest it through an actuality.

If this is a demonstrative relational value that has meaning and efficacy for the individuals involved - why is it to be condemned as laziness, sloth, or simply a perversity that is not acceptable?

Of course the lose definition of "meeting someone's needs" is certainly subjective and would not be 'my definition' should you chose to expound on it - and, I am certain this would be another of those things that would confuse and divide us through some war of definitions (re: Slave/Submissive debate) - but, the fact is -based on your stated raomatnic notion of mutuality, I would probably not meet your 'acceptable' and (apparently) requisite level of "doing"...

C'est le guerre....

God knows I am not the romantic many people on line feel that a BDSM dominant in a relationship should be.... and I thank him for that.

After all, I am not in an alternative (read: perverted) relationship that makes me a pariah to 99.9% of the 'pure population' because I care about what others may think of me.

~J

What LOD said..

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If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 39

RE: Does a Dominant Serve a Submissive - 11/23/2007 6:23:44 AM

Kana

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I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I serve her; that would be an erroneous conclusion. That would imply that I am bound to obey her, which is false. It gives me pleasure to be kind to her and grant her boons. I have found that a happy slave tends to make for a happy master. There are different paradigms that exist in a bound relationship. In a power exchange there is a responsibility implied towards both parties, she has her role and I have mine. Just as she gives to me, so in kind do I give to her. She gives me everything that she is, I give accountability, honesty, discipline, integrity, all the usual things that a good dominant offers in a structured power exchange. So I do not serve her, yet I take an active ongoing role in the relationship. I do this with joy and most of the decisions I make are based on what I think is best for her, not just me. Part of the responsibility that I think is contained in accepting the service of a slave or submissive is exactly that, the acceptance of the fact that I will hold her best interests at heart always and that I will not inflict harmful (well outside of the dungeon) acts upon her without a sufficient reason.

(in reply to wisteriaV)

Post #: 40

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