Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids Page: <<   < prev  10 11 [12] 13 14   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/16/2010 11:58:52 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
I said businesses, not corporrations (there are many kinds of businesses).

Except for very small businesses, all businesses are corporations (very small businesses sometimes are sole proprietorships or partnerships). So it is perfectly legitimate to equate the two.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Even so, a corporation that makes a shoddy product at a price consumers are not willing to pay is never going to maximize profits.


In most markets, corporations that make an high-quality product that is too expensive are going to maximize profit even less.

To maximize profit, corporations have to find a balance between quality and price. When it comes to services whose quality you can't judge until it is too late, cheap and shoddy tends to win out over quality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Not everyone who wears a business suit is evil. To believe so is nothing more than bigotry.


Indeed there are many honest businesspeople. But it only takes a few "evil" (your word) ones to spoil a market.


(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 8:27:02 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


quote:

You want people who want to use the public schools to use tham as is but the people who don't want to use public schools should be allowed to teach their kids what ever they want but should not have to pay taxes that subsidize the public schools and none of this should be manditory...Have I got your position right?


Close, but no cigar.



This is what you have said you want.
When it gets put down so you can read how foolish you sound you don't want to "man up" and own your own shit.
When asked what is missing you come up with "oh I burried it in ten pages of bullshit go find it".  This sort of attitude speaks directly to your lack of commitment to actually having a discussion.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 8:51:25 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Except for very small businesses, all businesses are corporations (very small businesses sometimes are sole proprietorships or partnerships). So it is perfectly legitimate to equate the two.

When you are talking to Thompson you have to bear in mind his definition of a corporation which is: an evil organization that is responsible for all evil in the world and is headed up by people who like to sneak into your house at night looking for puppies to kick. 
 
quote:

In most markets, corporations that make an high-quality product that is too expensive are going to maximize profit even less.

It depends upon the product or service in question.

quote:

To maximize profit, corporations have to find a balance between quality and price.

This is true.

quote:

When it comes to services whose quality you can't judge until it is too late, cheap and shoddy tends to win out over quality.

Not in the long run.  Sure, maybe they’ll “get” you the first time but once you’ve concluded that the Wilco Widget Company’s products are crap, are you going to buy from them again?  Also bear in mind that one person’s idea of poor quality may not be another’s.  Some people think McDonalds is great food but I haven’t set foot in one for twenty years and am unlikely to set foot in one again.  
  
quote:

Indeed there are many honest businesspeople. But it only takes a few "evil" (your word) ones to spoil a market.


This is true but when you are talking to Thompson you have to bear in mind that corporations (along with the United States) fill the devil role in his ideology.  They are to him what Jews are to Nazis. 

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 8:55:36 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

This is what you have said you want.
When it gets put down so you can read how foolish you sound you don't want to "man up" and own your own shit.
When asked what is missing you come up with "oh I burried it in ten pages of bullshit go find it".  This sort of attitude speaks directly to your lack of commitment to actually having a discussion.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Whatever.



_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 9:03:42 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I am not OK with the asylum because all they need to do is apply for a visa and move. 
Asylum is a specific concept and they do not fall within the clear guidlines


I agree with you that this is a complete abuse of hte asylum system. However, most Americans don't realize that you can't just "apply for a visa". Except for a tourist visa, which specifically bans going to school or working.

The type of visa this family would have needed is called an immigrant visa. Only a very small percentage of people qualify for it at all, and  it takes between ten and 25 years to get.

I know because I'm one of the lucky few who qualified (mine took "only" eight years but the process has gotten even slower since then).

Quite likely, Asylum really was the only way for the family to get legal status in the USA.




The point is that this family didn't need to immigrate to the USA to be able to home school their kids. As LadyEllen pointed out very early on, there are several countries within Europe that permit home schooling. This family would not have needed Visas to move to those countries.

So while asylum may have been the only way for this family to get legal status in the USA, the "reason" they applied for it was unreasonable because there were viable alternatives available.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 9:10:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		When you are talking to Thompson you have to bear in mind his definition of a corporation which is: an evil organization that is responsible for all evil in the world and is headed up by people who like to sneak into your house at night looking for puppies to kick.  

My definition of a corporation is the same as the one in the dictionary. 
That is:
That a corporation shields the stockholders from responsibility/liability for the actions of the corporation.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 9:16:31 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		This is true but when you are talking to Thompson you have to bear in mind that corporations (along with the United States) fill the devil role in his ideology.  They are to him what Jews are to Nazis. 

Should you ever actually learn to read you would learn that I believe in personal responsibility and I am against corporations because they are the legal means by which to avoid personal responsibility for ones actions.
I am an American citizen by birth and I have an obligation to applaud my country when she excells and to castigate her when she fails to live up to the high ideals upon which she was founded.
I find it telling that you find that to be a failing.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 9:22:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b



quote:

You want people who want to use the public schools to use tham as is but the people who don't want to use public schools should be allowed to teach their kids what ever they want but should not have to pay taxes that subsidize the public schools and none of this should be manditory...Have I got your position right?


Close, but no cigar.




This is what you have said you want.
When it gets put down so you can read how foolish you sound you don't want to "man up" and own your own shit.
When asked what is missing you come up with "oh I burried it in ten pages of bullshit go find it".  This sort of attitude speaks directly to your lack of commitment to actually having a discussion.

 
Whatever.

Which seems to be your little way of saying you have nothing to offer but criticism that contradicts itself and when this is pointed out to you you wander off.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/17/2010 1:02:08 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Which seems to be your little way of saying you have nothing to offer but criticism that contradicts itself and when this is pointed out to you you wander off.


I wander off when I get tired of repeating myself over and over... and over... and over...

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 1:38:27 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
quote:

When it comes to services whose quality you can't judge until it is too late, cheap and shoddy tends to win out over quality.

Not in the long run.  Sure, maybe they’ll “get” you the first time but once you’ve concluded that the Wilco Widget Company’s products are crap, are you going to buy from them again?  Also bear in mind that one person’s idea of poor quality may not be another’s.  Some people think McDonalds is great food but I haven’t set foot in one for twenty years and am unlikely to set foot in one again.  


That's only true for businesses that rely heavily on repeat customers. If it's a once-in-a-lifetime purchase, it doesn't matter to Wilco Widget Company what you think about their widgets. That's even more true when the defect doesn't show up until ten or twenty years later. That's why shoddy construction companies exist and even thrive, for instance.

Consequently, without safeguards, a shoddy construction company will generally underbid the quality ones.

To reduce that problem, that we have building codes and inspectors who know how to catch bad construction work and keep construction companies (somewhat) honest.

Same thing with education - you won't know that your private school or home schooling is worthless until you hit the job market.


(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 8:22:06 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

That's only true for businesses that rely heavily on repeat customers. If it's a once-in-a-lifetime purchase, it doesn't matter to Wilco Widget Company what you think about their widgets. That's even more true when the defect doesn't show up until ten or twenty years later. That's why shoddy construction companies exist and even thrive, for instance.


Word of mouth - which can be the best or worst advertising - still applies

quote:

Consequently, without safeguards, a shoddy construction company will generally underbid the quality ones.

To reduce that problem, that we have building codes and inspectors who know how to catch bad construction work and keep construction companies (somewhat) honest.


Somewhat indeed.  Corruption runs rampant.  Just one more reason why I don't understand why people are willing to put so much trust and faith in government. 

quote:

Same thing with education - you won't know that your private school or home schooling is worthless until you hit the job market.


Yup.  And if a particular group's idea of education isn't working out for them then it will be up to them to make the neccessary changes or accept the consequences. 





_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 9:10:51 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Yup.  And if a particular group's idea of education isn't working out for them then it will be up to them to make the neccessary changes or accept the consequences. 


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Say it isn't so! 

Personal responsibility for yourself and your family/children? 

Excuse me please while I head out to rend my garments and roll in the dust. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 9:24:25 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:


Word of mouth - which can be the best or worst advertising - still applies

If it is the best why do the corporations spend what they do on media advertising?  We all know you are too smart to fall for micky d's pitch but not all of your peers are nearly as smart as you.  So in reality we have stores like harbor freight which sells cheap tools cheaply and the customer who is ignorant of the difference in quality.

quote:

Consequently, without safeguards, a shoddy construction company will generally underbid the quality ones.

To reduce that problem, that we have building codes and inspectors who know how to catch bad construction work and keep construction companies (somewhat) honest.
Somewhat indeed.  Corruption runs rampant.  Just one more reason why I don't understand why people are willing to put so much trust and faith in government. 


Corruption runs rampant...What a crock of shit.  To say that it exists is one thing but rampant?  How bout you define rampant.  Does that mean that more than half are on the take?More than a quarter but less than a half?Do you just open your mouth to change feet?
If there were no building inspectors do you think that the contractor would not fudge the quality...for fucks sake man that is the whole reason for inspections because contractors have proven over and over again that they cannot and will not self police.

quote:


Yup.  And if a particular group's idea of education isn't working out for them then it will be up to them to make the neccessary changes or accept the consequences. 


That is why local school board set up minimum standards so that fools who shoot themselves in the foot still have access to more ammo.





(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 9:34:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Yup.  And if a particular group's idea of education isn't working out for them then it will be up to them to make the neccessary changes or accept the consequences. 


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Say it isn't so! 

Personal responsibility for yourself and your family/children? 

Excuse me please while I head out to rend my garments and roll in the dust. 


The personal responsibility for yourself and your family/children you gladly abrogate to the state in many ways.
Where do you get your water and who certifies it's quality?
Where do you get your fire protection and who certifies its quality?
Where do you get rid of your excrement and who certifies its quality?
This is pretty much the reason most of us stopped living in trees and formed societies so that the group was able to accomplish more for the individual than the individual could for themself.  Our society has decided that it is in the best interest of our society that ignorance be reduced through the medium of education.  What is taught is necessarily going to be what that society decides should be taught.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 11:07:59 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Excuse me please while I head out to rend my garments and roll in the dust. 


Public indecency and poor hygiene?  I can't tolerate that!  I think I'll push for a law to stop you.



_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 11:10:29 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Where do you get rid of your excrement and who certifies its quality?

 




_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 11:19:18 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 Our society has decided that it is in the best interest of our society that ignorance be reduced through the medium of education. 

I agree that education is important.  However I do not think that public schools are the most effective.  In this case, personal responsibility refers to the parent making sure that the child is learning all that they should.  It means NOT fobbing the child off on the state to accomplish this.  Whether through homeschooling or just supplementing at home their education, parents MUST be ultimately responsible. 

quote:

 What is taught is necessarily going to be what that society decides should be taught.

Sorry, that just does not cut it.  "Society" is pretty much a faceless entity that we use to justify actions.  Far more likely to happen, and what typically happens, is that a select few with special intrests decide what should be taught.  Pretty much everyone agrees that the three "R's" are important to learn.  However testing has shown that these things are NOT being learned.  If they were such large numbers of freshman college students would not be having to take "bonehead English" and "bonehead math." 

So, it is the parents that need to decide that these are important to learn and to ensure that they are learned. 

Edited to add:  As far as the other things on your listing, yes I do use the municiple services.  It is a condition of where I live.  However, I do know how and am capable of doing those things for myself. 

< Message edited by Aylee -- 3/18/2010 11:24:57 AM >

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 11:21:37 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Excuse me please while I head out to rend my garments and roll in the dust. 


Public indecency and poor hygiene?  I can't tolerate that!  I think I'll push for a law to stop you.


I must spout a Heinlein quote now.  I just cannot help myself. 

Rules, laws— always for other fellow. A murky part of us, something we had before we came down out of trees, and failed to shuck when we stood up. Because not one of those people said: "Please pass this so that I won't be able to do something I know I should stop." Nyet, tovarishchee, was always something they hated to see neighbors doing. Stop them "for their own good"—not because speaker claimed to be harmed by it.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 11:51:52 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		"There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as moral indignation, which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue." - Erich Fromm


_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/18/2010 12:16:17 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		TANSTAAFL

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 240
Page:   <<   < prev  10 11 [12] 13 14   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids Page: <<   < prev  10 11 [12] 13 14   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109