RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids

RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 12:39:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Where do you get rid of your excrement and who certifies its quality? [sm=rofl.gif] Is your point that waste treatment plants are not certified by some governmental organization?

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 12:45:45 PM)
quote: I agree that education is important. However I do not think that public schools are the most effective. More effective than what. Before there was public education there was only education for those who could afford it. You whine that public education is not the most effective but you offer no alternative. The alternative that was available before public education certainly did not work. In this case, personal responsibility refers to the parent making sure that the child is learning all that they should. It means NOT fobbing the child off on the state to accomplish this. Yet again you offer no alternative. Whether through homeschooling or just supplementing at home their education, parents MUST be ultimately responsible. They are they send their children to public school or private school or home school. Do you want to end public education?

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 12:54:01 PM)
quote: Sorry, that just does not cut it. "Society" is pretty much a faceless entity that we use to justify actions. Far more likely to happen, and what typically happens, is that a select few with special intrests decide what should be taught. What is taught is determined by the local school boards which are elected by the members of that society. When that has happened those individuals were promptly replaced those with views that more closely resembled the views of the group. [\b] Pretty much everyone agrees that the three "R's" are important to learn. However testing has shown that these things are NOT being learned. Of course it would be nice if you could validate that statement If they were such large numbers of freshman college students would not be having to take "bonehead English" and "bonehead math." And these large numbers you were going to validate in your next post? So, it is the parents that need to decide that these are important to learn and to ensure that they are learned. These parents have they send their children to the school that they can afford.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 12:58:37 PM)
quote: As far as the other things on your listing, yes I do use the municiple services. It is a condition of where I live. However, I do know how and am capable of doing those things for myself. Really...you are a remarkable person to be able to build highways,drill wells...you do own your property outright...no mortgage...otherwise the mineral rights on the land are not yours. And you are telling me that your municipality allows private sewer systems? You are also your own police force and fire department. My my when do you go to work or sleep.

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 1:07:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: As far as the other things on your listing, yes I do use the municiple services. It is a condition of where I live. However, I do know how and am capable of doing those things for myself. Really...you are a remarkable person to be able to build highways,drill wells...you do own your property outright...no mortgage...otherwise the mineral rights on the land are not yours. And you are telling me that your municipality allows private sewer systems? You are also your own police force and fire department. My my when do you go to work or sleep. What you mentioned was water purification, safe waste diposal, and fire protection. And yes, those can be done by a person/family themselves.

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 1:11:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: I agree that education is important. However I do not think that public schools are the most effective. More effective than what. Before there was public education there was only education for those who could afford it. You whine that public education is not the most effective but you offer no alternative. The alternative that was available before public education certainly did not work. In this case, personal responsibility refers to the parent making sure that the child is learning all that they should. It means NOT fobbing the child off on the state to accomplish this. Yet again you offer no alternative. Whether through homeschooling or just supplementing at home their education, parents MUST be ultimately responsible. They are they send their children to public school or private school or home school. Do you want to end public education? I guess that you failed to see the part about supplementing their public education and being the ones responsible for ensuring that they are actually recieving the public education they are to be getting. As far as your other post, NO I am not going to go find the stats on every center for higher education to get you the percent of students needing to take remedial classes. The fact that they are offered at all should tell you something. Edited to add: Pointing out that our current public education is ineffective is not whining. What am I doing about it? I have chosen an alternative for my child, and that is MY responsibility.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 2:29:43 PM)
quote: What you mentioned was water purification, safe waste diposal, and fire protection. And yes, those can be done by a person/family themselves. No: what I asked was where do you get your water and how do you certify its purity. I am sorry you felt that that list was some how all inclusive of the services we as a society charge our government with providing. It was not.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 2:39:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee As far as your other post, NO I am not going to go find the stats on every center for higher education to get you the percent of students needing to take remedial classes. The fact that they are offered at all should tell you something. The percentage of new college students taking remedial courses depends highly on whether its a private (relatively insignificant, and largely not really remedial) or a public college, and even varies highly by state law in the publics. Eg. in the Maryland state college system they are mandated to accept applications from community college graduates. As a result they have large numbers (on the order of 25%) of students taking remedial courses, and graduation rates that are unconscionably low for the taxpayer $.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 3:48:51 PM)
The percentage of new college students taking remedial courses depends highly on whether its a private (relatively insignificant, and largely not really remedial) or a public college, and even varies highly by state law in the publics. Eg. in the Maryland state college system they are mandated to accept applications from community college graduates. As a result they have large numbers (on the order of 25%) of students taking remedial courses, and graduation rates that are unconscionably low for the taxpayer $. How would you solve this problem?

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 8:42:59 PM)
quote: TANSTAAFL I always liked mike and his straight forward approach to things. "throw rocks at them." - Mike

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 8:44:49 PM)
quote: Is your point that waste treatment plants are not certified by some governmental organization? Oh c'mon! Your sentence reads that the excrement is being checked for quality. It's fucking hilarious!

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 9:19:25 PM)
Oh Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. You’re doing it again. You take the principle behind someone’s argument and then attempt to discredit it by pushing it to the extreme. It simply doesn’t work. Being against government control and/or interference in one area of life (in this case, education) does not mean that a person is against the notion of having a government or recognizing that it does have legitimate purposes or powers (in this case sewer systems, fire departments and whatever other nonsense you’re bringing up). And you continue to fail to recognize that this tactic can be turned around. So you favor government control of what we learn? Well, some diets are better than others – and certainly public health is a government concern – so you must favor government control over what we eat. No more red meat! No more fatty foods or caffeinated beverages! Everyone must eat three servings of vegetables and fruits a day! Of course, we’ll need government inspectors to come into our homes to check on compliance. “Drop that potato chip, Mister! Open your refrigerator and show me your broccoli!”

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 11:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: What you mentioned was water purification, safe waste diposal, and fire protection. And yes, those can be done by a person/family themselves. No: what I asked was where do you get your water and how do you certify its purity. I am sorry you felt that that list was some how all inclusive of the services we as a society charge our government with providing. It was not. And I told you that I use the municiple services as it is a requirement where I live. Although I am capable of doing those things on your list for myself. I also stated that I was responding to the things that YOU listed. I think that you are being deliberatly obtuse.

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/18/2010 11:33:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The percentage of new college students taking remedial courses depends highly on whether its a private (relatively insignificant, and largely not really remedial) or a public college, and even varies highly by state law in the publics. Eg. in the Maryland state college system they are mandated to accept applications from community college graduates. As a result they have large numbers (on the order of 25%) of students taking remedial courses, and graduation rates that are unconscionably low for the taxpayer $. How would you solve this problem? Personally I would solve the problem by cancelling the classes period. If you are not able to do college level work then you should not be in college. There was 13 years in which to learn these things. At the point you are in college you are an adult and need to take responsibility for yourself. Just because your parents did not insist that you learn while you were getting your public education and you preferred screwing around, makes no difference now. You can either teach yourself, hire your own tutor, or go back home and insist that your parents teach you.

cadenas -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 1:21:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee As far as your other post, NO I am not going to go find the stats on every center for higher education to get you the percent of students needing to take remedial classes. The fact that they are offered at all should tell you something. The percentage of new college students taking remedial courses depends highly on whether its a private (relatively insignificant, and largely not really remedial) or a public college, and even varies highly by state law in the publics. Eg. in the Maryland state college system they are mandated to accept applications from community college graduates. As a result they have large numbers (on the order of 25%) of students taking remedial courses, and graduation rates that are unconscionably low for the taxpayer $. You are right about (many) private colleges not having many remedial classes, but wrong about the reason. I used to teach at a private college, and I can tell you that they take just about ANYBODY who can come up with the money - and that is true not just for this particular school, but also for all the competing schools that I'm familiar with. Note: there are also some high-standard private schools like Harward, Stanford, ... but the vast majority of private colleges are of the type where I taught. The real reason they don't have remedial classes is that they dumb down the curriculum. I've had students - in a computer science program! - who couldn't tell me how much 7% of $100 was. I've had students (native-born Americans. And for that matter, Caucasian from a wealthy neighborhood) who guessed that the USA may have 52 states. I've had students with serious mental illnesses to the point that they weren't able to follow the class. We had students who had a GPS tracking device and had to check in with a parole officer if a class ran late. We've had drugs, the works. There actually is a good way to distinguish good quality private schools from the vast majority of junk schools, but most people don't know to ask the right questions. You simply have to ask two questions: - Do your credits transfer to <name the nearest major public university>? Junk schools generally only give worthless credits that only transfer to other junk schools, if at all. - What is the average faculty salary? Junk schools generally pay dismal salaries and therefore have few qualified instructors. In my area, the nearest community college paid about twice the average salary of the junk schools.

cadenas -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 1:27:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: That's only true for businesses that rely heavily on repeat customers. If it's a once-in-a-lifetime purchase, it doesn't matter to Wilco Widget Company what you think about their widgets. That's even more true when the defect doesn't show up until ten or twenty years later. That's why shoddy construction companies exist and even thrive, for instance. Word of mouth - which can be the best or worst advertising - still applies Only if the customer is in a position to evaluate the quality. With schools, word of mouth would come from fellow parents with children about the same age. Problems in the education wouldn't show up until decades later. quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Consequently, without safeguards, a shoddy construction company will generally underbid the quality ones. To reduce that problem, that we have building codes and inspectors who know how to catch bad construction work and keep construction companies (somewhat) honest. Somewhat indeed. Corruption runs rampant. Just one more reason why I don't understand why people are willing to put so much trust and faith in government. I'm not sure I quite follow your reasoning here. PRIVATE COMPANIES are corrupt and do shoddy work, so we should trust MORE in the private sector? Or is that not what you are saying? quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Same thing with education - you won't know that your private school or home schooling is worthless until you hit the job market. Yup. And if a particular group's idea of education isn't working out for them then it will be up to them to make the neccessary changes or accept the consequences. No. If a particular group's idea of education isn't working out, they don't bear any consequences - somebody else (the children) does.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 7:52:19 AM)
quote: Only if the customer is in a position to evaluate the quality. With schools, word of mouth would come from fellow parents with children about the same age. Problems in the education wouldn't show up until decades later. Not necessarily. If little Johnny can’t read or find the U.S. on a map that’s a pretty good indicator that something may be wrong. Every situation will have a different set of variables and so there is no way to predict these things. Which is why those closest to the situation (the parents) should be the ones to decided rather than being forced into accepting a bad situation. quote: I'm not sure I quite follow your reasoning here. PRIVATE COMPANIES are corrupt and do shoddy work, so we should trust MORE in the private sector? Or is that not what you are saying? You will find corruption in both the private and public sectors, which is why it is best for people to have options – the more options people have the greater the likelihood they can navigate through the unpalatable ones to find what suits them best. quote: No. If a particular group's idea of education isn't working out, they don't bear any consequences Wrong. But bear in mind that by “not working out” I don’t mean people ending up wandering the streets homeless. I mean their ability to engage the larger society around them. Christian fundamentalists may limit their job opportunities but they don’t eliminate them (how many Southern Baptists do you see living on the streets?) If they are okay with this then fine and dandy and if not, then it’s their problem to solve. quote: - somebody else (the children) does. And you’re going to save them all, huh? How very noble of you. Good luck with that. I wish could be morally superior so I could bully the benighted into behaving the proper way. Like Thompson before you, you negate free will. Does every child of religious parents accept that religion? Does every child of Atheist parents remain an atheist?

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 4:34:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Is your point that waste treatment plants are not certified by some governmental organization? Oh c'mon! Your sentence reads that the excrement is being checked for quality. It's fucking hilarious! Then it is obvious that you don't know shit about shit

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 4:47:06 PM)
Like Thompson before you, you negate free will. Does every child of religious parents accept that religion? Does every child of Atheist parents remain an atheist? What a crock of shit. I have never negated free will. I have asked you repeatedly to answer one simple question. You say that parents have the primary responsibility for the education of their children and I have asked you on several occasions to tell me how much input the state should have. To date you have danced all around this. If the state says that the earth is round and that students must be taught that, does not prevent the parent from teaching also that they think that is wrong but in order to get a diploma from a school which teaches a particular caricula you must be able to answer the questions with the answers that that caricula demands. You continue to prattle on about the parents rights but refuse to address the seminal question.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/19/2010 4:52:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The percentage of new college students taking remedial courses depends highly on whether its a private (relatively insignificant, and largely not really remedial) or a public college, and even varies highly by state law in the publics. Eg. in the Maryland state college system they are mandated to accept applications from community college graduates. As a result they have large numbers (on the order of 25%) of students taking remedial courses, and graduation rates that are unconscionably low for the taxpayer $. How would you solve this problem? Personally I would solve the problem by cancelling the classes period. If you are not able to do college level work then you should not be in college. There was 13 years in which to learn these things. At the point you are in college you are an adult and need to take responsibility for yourself. Just because your parents did not insist that you learn while you were getting your public education and you preferred screwing around, makes no difference now. You can either teach yourself, hire your own tutor, or go back home and insist that your parents teach you. I do not know what the rules are now but when I went to school in California if you were not eligible for entrance into a four year college out of high school you went to a junior college. If at the end of your stay at the JC you were eligible for university then you went. The university did not offer bone head anything. The JC on the other hand did. What this represents is the failure of the system to educate some of the students. It obviously ecucated many because they went on to four year institutions directly from high school. If a system has problems is it more productive to scrap the whole system or fix the broken parts?

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