RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 10:10:05 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

Why?

I've already answered this on this thread.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 3/7/2010 10:13:33 AM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 10:25:36 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

I don't have a problem with the state requiering basic education - reading, writing, 'rithmatic - but when we start getting into areas of science, religion, history, etc - areas of deeply held personal conviction, it is quite another matter.

While the study of comparative religion is an elective in many state schools Religion as a subject is not.
I find it interesting that you do not feel that knowledge of science and history are areas that the state has any right to teach.
Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.
History is a log of what has gone before.
Please explane why you are against this sort of knowledge being dispensed by state sponsored schools?

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 10:32:05 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

My own experience has shown me that you can keep your child stupid and ignorant and still send them to public school.

In some places sending them to public school is all you need to do to keep them stupid and ignorant. Take a poll amongst twenty somethings and ask them such questions as:

When did the U.S. civil war begin?

"Who said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" ?

Show me where the United States is on this map?

From far to large a number of them, you'll get blank stares.

What exactly is that "far to large a number"?
Is it possible that someone who was home schooled or attended private school might be equally ignorant.
I know of a graduate of Yale and numerous prestigious prep schools who went on to become President of the U.S. who when asked who the president of Pakistan was, exhibited one of your aforementioned "blank stares".

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 10:40:39 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Why?

I've already answered this on this thread.

Not to the satisfaction of those of us who can read?

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 11:17:20 AM

calamitysandra

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Something else just occurred to me.
The dogma that my rights stop where the rights of somebody else begin is often bandied around on this forum.
So, at which point do the child's right to the best possible education supersede the parents rights?
And I honestly have trouble reconciling writing, reading, math with the best possible education.

Another point is the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. The USA as well as Germany are signatories to this.
It requires the state to act in the best interests of a child, and requires in Article 28 to make at least primary education compulsory.
I believe that those US states which have no guidelines, and more important, no oversight and/or compulsory testing are in violation of this.

Let me state it again. If parents are truly qualified, and are willing to bring in second parties on subjects they are not qualified enough on, and the necessary local infrastructures are in place, then I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, provided it is in the children's best interest.
I do however believe, that oversight is an absolute necessity, especially in light of the Convention cited above, and the resulting requirement of the state to act in the child's interest.

I also believe, that homeschooling is not a truly viable option for Germany.
It would require that the necessary infrastructure be build, an overseeing entity be created, as well as material be developed.
The first two would fall to the state, the money coming out of the education budget, thus taking away from the vast majority of children. Developing materials would be something the appropriate industries would have to pick up, and I doubt that the German home school market would be big enough to make this viable.

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 3/7/2010 11:20:59 AM >

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 1:45:12 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Then you are incedibly poorly informed.

For instance Illinois has no required oversight nor required testing.
http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Illinois.pdf

In Texas no oversight or testing
http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Texas.pdf

The same is true in many states.

Very weel, then. But that is a problem for the people of those states to solve and I fail to see how it in any way invalidates your obvious bigotry against religious people.

I'm not bigoted against religious people. I despise people who harm children in any way.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 3:18:40 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I don't have a problem with the state requiering basic education - reading, writing, 'rithmatic - but when we start getting into areas of science, religion, history, etc - areas of deeply held personal conviction, it is quite another matter.

Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.

Geo-centrism goes back to Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century. An astronomer and mathematician. I would consider him a scientist and not clergy.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 3:58:39 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I don't have a problem with the state requiering basic education - reading, writing, 'rithmatic - but when we start getting into areas of science, religion, history, etc - areas of deeply held personal conviction, it is quite another matter.

Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.

Geo-centrism goes back to Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century. An astronomer and mathematician. I would consider him a scientist and not clergy.

You got that backwards. Aristarchus of Samos is the first person to have suggested the heliocentric model that we know of.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:03:14 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

Not to the satisfaction of those of us who can read?

Try again (emphasis added):

I am not questioning wether it does or doesn't (clearly it does) but wether it should. If you accept the premise that the State can dictate what your children learn then you have no basis upon which to object when they start teaching things you disagree with. Mister X may be okay with the State teaching his children that racisim is bad (what decent person wouldn't?) but what if ten years later - with new people and a new ideology ruling the State - it is decided his children must learn that black people are inferior sub-humans?

It is not about what is being taught, but about the right of the people not to have their children indoctrinated by the State.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:14:02 PM

DomKen

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A funny coincidence shows why the majority of homeschooled kids shouldn't be.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_on_re/us_rel_home_school_evolution
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/evolution-and-home-schooling-redux/
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/the-home-schoolers-respond/

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:25:34 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I don't have a problem with the state requiering basic education - reading, writing, 'rithmatic - but when we start getting into areas of science, religion, history, etc - areas of deeply held personal conviction, it is quite another matter.

Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.

Geo-centrism goes back to Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century. An astronomer and mathematician. I would consider him a scientist and not clergy.

So is it your position that religion has not ever taught that the earth was the center of the solar system?

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:29:09 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

You got that backwards. Aristarchus of Samos is the first person to have suggested the heliocentric model that we know of.

So what!
I did not say that the church was the first one to believe this.
I said:
Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.
If you wish to disagree with me perhaps you should disagree with something I actually said

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:34:32 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

It is not about what is being taught, but about the right of the people not to have their children indoctrinated by the State.

This moronic statement is self contradictory and reads just as well both ways...It is not about the children being indoctrinated by the state it is about what is being taught.
Please try to answer the question next time

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:39:12 PM

mikeyOfGeorgia

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why would anyone wanna come to this screwed up country in the first place?

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:41:36 PM

stef

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They want to be closer to you, Mikey.

~stef

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:45:44 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeyOfGeorgia

why would anyone wanna come to this screwed up country in the first place?

While it is easier to bribe cops in Mexico my English is better than my Spanish.
That's why.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 4:54:07 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

This moronic statement is self contradictory and reads just as well both ways...It is not about the children being indoctrinated by the state it is about what is being taught.
Please try to answer the question next time

You are not making any sense. I don't know if you're playing silly word games or high or what. It doesn't matter. If you really can't envision how state indoctrination of children can be dangerous, then I really can't explain it to you.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 5:32:31 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I don't have a problem with the state requiering basic education - reading, writing, 'rithmatic - but when we start getting into areas of science, religion, history, etc - areas of deeply held personal conviction, it is quite another matter.

Religion used to teach us that the earth was the center of the solar system.
Science has shown us that that is not true.

Geo-centrism goes back to Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century. An astronomer and mathematician. I would consider him a scientist and not clergy.

You got that backwards. Aristarchus of Samos is the first person to have suggested the heliocentric model that we know of.

Yea you're right. It was Aristotle who believed in Geo-centrism.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 5:55:03 PM

thompsonx

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Ken:
Please excuse my post to you I misunderstood to whom you were directing your post.

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RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool... - 3/7/2010 5:59:59 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

This moronic statement is self contradictory and reads just as well both ways...It is not about the children being indoctrinated by the state it is about what is being taught.
Please try to answer the question next time

You are not making any sense.

Neither are you as I pointed out

I don't know if you're playing silly word games or high or what. It doesn't matter. If you really can't envision how state indoctrination of children can be dangerous, then I really can't explain it to you.

You are the one playing word games. You want to play with the words teach and indoctrinate. How about if you give us your definition of those two words and how you see the school system as it applies to your definition of those two words.
One mans indoctrination is another mans teaching. So when and if you can find a away to define those two words so that their meaning is mutually exclusive you have not explaned anything.