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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:41:45 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That was the Republican Congress under Clinton that cut spending and held the line on the budget.



Uhhhhhh..............so what happened?

We had a Republican Congress under Bush too.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:43:43 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

that has been thouroughly and repeatedly debunked for you, buddy.


ORLY? Its difficult to debunk facts.


Then present some, for once.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:47:23 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're so full of shit. I've never denied they're legitimate news sources, what I've said about them is they're biased to the left, which thats completely accurate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You also refuse to accept the Associated Press as a legitimate news source, The New York Times, The Washington Post, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc., etc..

That is until they run an article that you agree with, then you have no problem listing them as a credible source.




If they are biased is that not the same as saying they are not objective and therefore not legitimate?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:49:39 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I'm claiming that you can't believe everything you read on the Internet, and that one should take what one reads on these fringe websites with a shaker of salt.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I don't normally engage people who get off on source bashing pot shots, but today I'll go ahead. Are you claiming that the votes and quote reported are lies?




You don't have to take it with a shaker of salt. You can actually verify the votes on government websites. I don't spend much time reading HuffPo, but when I follow links to it, the stories rarely involve any original reporting, they're just repeating facts reported in other (named) sources. That's one of the things that cracks me up about the knee jerk source bashers -- they'd challenge the veracity of their own marriage certificate if it was published under a questionable url. It's like the truth doesn't matter at all. It's like they can't even be bothered to click on the link and see the AP byline. No... the fact that the url is to some untrustworthy liberal news agregator has fundamentally compromised the truth value of the words contained therein. Right wing republicans... post modern whores hopelessly lost in the hall of mirrors of their own construction.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:50:21 AM   
Sanity


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They strayed far from their conservative roots, didn't they.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Uhhhhhh..............so what happened?

We had a Republican Congress under Bush too.



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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 10:57:40 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Bull shit. Anyone can make a web page, and when you link to someone who isn't legitimate you get all kinds of crazy nonsense. Its just a matter of keeping things real.

If its a legitimate news story then you should be able to find it at a reputable site.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

You don't have to take it with a shaker of salt. You can actually verify the votes on government websites. I don't spend much time reading HuffPo, but when I follow links to it, the stories rarely involve any original reporting, they're just repeating facts reported in other (named) sources. That's one of the things that cracks me up about the knee jerk source bashers -- they'd challenge the veracity of their own marriage certificate if it was published under a questionable url. It's like the truth doesn't matter at all. It's like they can't even be bothered to click on the link and see the AP byline. No... the fact that the url is to some untrustworthy liberal news agregator has fundamentally compromised the truth value of the words contained therein. Right wing republicans... post modern whores hopelessly lost in the hall of mirrors of their own construction.



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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:03:07 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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There are degrees of objectivity, sure. But come on - "Democracy NOW!" and Huffpo are off the freakin' charts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
If they are biased is that not the same as saying they are not objective and therefore not legitimate?



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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:12:39 AM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


There are degrees of objectivity, sure. But come on - "Democracy NOW!" and Huffpo are off the freakin' charts.




And FOX isn't?


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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:19:20 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

There are degrees of objectivity, sure. But come on - "Democracy NOW!" and Huffpo are off the freakin' charts.

Ferchrissake, wasn't there a topic here somewhere? Something to do with pre-existing conditions?



K.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:32:40 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		It's funny how quickly this got reduced to a source bashing fest.

Domestic Violence - A preexisting condition?

I have empathy and compassion for those women AND men who are caught in DV. I also believe that the first time someone abuses you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer.

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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:34:53 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The ignorance that is still out there regarding domestic abuse is startling. While they have some facts correct, the whole picture isn't clear to so many. Unless they have all the facts, to use some facts to create good cause to deny victims is what I would consider blatant ignorance with power. Another victimization.

How I wish I was still advocating. I've shocked more than one senator or congress person. This just angers me! Years of hard work and research that is available and still we see this shit. Oh well, not surprising I guess.


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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:38:25 AM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

It's funny how quickly this got reduced to a source bashing fest.

Domestic Violence - A preexisting condition?

I have empathy and compassion for those women AND men who are caught in DV. I also believe that the first time someone abuses you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer.


I just gotta ask...when was the last time you were faced with choosing between your home, possibly children, friends, family, and livelihood and not being beat?

When was the last you actually began reflecting the unhealthy parts of your past manifesting themselves physically in your current relationships? when was the last time you had to face an actual paradigm shift so big and so hugely shattering that it has to break you down to your smallest parts so that you can rebuild yourself to a whole person just because the person you trusted as your partner or parent is an abusive asshole? How much choice is actually left in all of that?

Domestic violence doesn't just happen to adults. When kids get caught up in it, it's happening to them too. Are they, then, "volunteers"?

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 3/4/2010 11:40:46 AM >

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RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:40:39 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I also believe that the first time someone abuses you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer.


That seems to be what the insurance companies believe also, but is that a basis for denying coverage?

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:45:12 AM   
cloudboy


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Let me know if you make any headway here. I especially like how you invoked one's marriage certificate as example deranged "source suspicion."

Maybe there is life after LordandMaster.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:45:41 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It took me seven years to escape a man. A man I had checked out and came out clean. A powerful man. A man with connections world wide. A man who stole my children and took them to another country to bring me back to him.

There are many reasons an abused spouse might stay. Things are more complicated in many situations than being able to pick up and move on. Some risk loss of their children, family and some are controlled financially. I remember a day when I had one set of clothing. I remember escaping into the night in the middle of a snow storm and going to a shelter that only the police knew about and those that worked there or were there. It was three counties away from my home. That man found me within three days and I left no trail.

There is so much more to all of this. Not everyone in an abusive situation is there by choice or free will.


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:45:47 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

It's funny how quickly this got reduced to a source bashing fest.

Domestic Violence - A preexisting condition?

I have empathy and compassion for those women AND men who are caught in DV. I also believe that the first time someone abuses you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer.


I just gotta ask...when was the last time you were faced with choosing between your home, possibly children, friends, family, and livelihood and not being beat?

When was the last you actually began reflecting the unhealthy parts of your past manifesting themselves physically in your current relationships? when was the last time you had to face an actual paradigm shift so big and so hugely shattering that it has to break you down to your smallest parts so that you can rebuild yourself to a whole person just because the person you trusted as your partner or parent is an abusive asshole? How much choice is actually left in all of that?

Domestic violence doesn't just happen to adults. When kids get caught up in it, it's happening to them too. Are they, then, "volunteers"?


Good post Jen ... mind if I use that ?

Pirate

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:50:39 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Apparently as there is no "reputable" source for the story... the thread isnt real and there fore cannot be hijacked, derailed or ignored out of hand
but if he actuallly gave a damn about the realitiy of the situation he could choose any of these sources too

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/06/domestic.violence.insurance/index.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/AR2010022503133.html

http://www.seiu.org/2009/09/domestic-violence-victims-have-a-pre-existing-condition.php
from 1995 Boston Globe archive
   Among the companies that deny or have canceled coverage to battered women are Nationwide, Allstate, State Farm, Aetna, Metropolitan Life, The Equitable Companies, First Colony Life, The Prudential and the Principal Financial Group, the Boston Sunday Globe reported.
http://action.nwlc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=nowheretoturn

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/domestic_abuse_is_a_pre_existing_condition_in_mississippi_091609/

http://www.healthcare-now.org/domestic-violence-a-pre-existing-condition/

http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/09/meet-the-10-senators-who-vetoed-insurance-protection-for-domestic-violence-survivors.html

http://www.tcfv.org/tcfv-content/domestic-violence-as-pre-existing-condition-8-states-still-allow-it/

sorry my response was to Kirata, not Jen


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 3/4/2010 11:53:06 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:50:39 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

It took me seven years to escape a man. A man I had checked out and came out clean. A powerful man. A man with connections world wide. A man who stole my children and took them to another country to bring me back to him.

There are many reasons an abused spouse might stay. Things are more complicated in many situations than being able to pick up and move on. Some risk loss of their children, family and some are controlled financially. I remember a day when I had one set of clothing. I remember escaping into the night in the middle of a snow storm and going to a shelter that only the police knew about and those that worked there or were there. It was three counties away from my home. That man found me within three days and I left no trail.

There is so much more to all of this. Not everyone in an abusive situation is there by choice or free will.



I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or if you think I am arguing the point, which I'm not, in case my post seemed ambiguous.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:52:33 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Rulemylife, I was just responding to the thread, sorry to appear as if I responded to you! 

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: domestic violence a 'preexisting condition' - 3/4/2010 11:54:59 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

It's funny how quickly this got reduced to a source bashing fest.

Domestic Violence - A preexisting condition?

I have empathy and compassion for those women AND men who are caught in DV. I also believe that the first time someone abuses you, you are a victim. The second time, you are a volunteer.


I just gotta ask...when was the last time you were faced with choosing between your home, possibly children, friends, family, and livelihood and not being beat?

When was the last you actually began reflecting the unhealthy parts of your past manifesting themselves physically in your current relationships? when was the last time you had to face an actual paradigm shift so big and so hugely shattering that it has to break you down to your smallest parts so that you can rebuild yourself to a whole person just because the person you trusted as your partner or parent is an abusive asshole? How much choice is actually left in all of that?

Domestic violence doesn't just happen to adults. When kids get caught up in it, it's happening to them too. Are they, then, "volunteers"?


Good post Jen ... mind if I use that ?

Pirate



Mr. Pirate, be my guest.

Having been a person who suffered huge amounts of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse as a child and understanding that I was allowing those things to manifest as an adult, I took a long hard look at what I was doing and what excuses I was using to keep allowing those things to happen.

Like I tell me uncle now, I have a choice to sit in shit or get up and move. It took a LOT of broken bones for me to figure it out. And God forbid, had I not had the physical lessons earlier on in my life to teach me better, I may still be in that cycle. I learned the lessons the hard way and I made a choice when I finally knew what that choices was. And that took time. Unfortunately, time often means going through the cycle more than once more. Which means the domestic violence continues.

I don't think people should have that kind of stuff held against them. Not because it happened to me. But because I understand the process and what it takes to get out of it. It's not just one choice, one day. It's a set of choices. Everyday. For the rest of your life. Being a domestic violence victim is very much related to being an addict.

Insurance companies reward individuals for going through treatment programs. They lower the premiums and might even pay for the programs themselves. Victims of domestic violence often loose their jobs and to hold these issues against them in terms of insurance coverage is unconscionable. Anybody see the issue with this?

boi

< Message edited by BoiJen -- 3/4/2010 12:01:20 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 60
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