RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:06:08 AM)

The chipping of people will come in time, there will be protests as always, but in the end it will be accepted. The good points always in every case of everything controversial always seem to shine through, just look at what we have now that was once considered controversial.

Dogs in the UK, well I believe there was a requirement for a dog licence, whether that is still in existence or not, I don't know, either way, I believe I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted for having an unlicensed dog, so perhaps another law with no teeth.

The question is, what happens if a human is bitten by a dog, a human out where ever, doing what humans do and for some reason, a dog off the lead bites them, what is the next step ? Me, a dog bites me, I am going to defend ,myself, as if I was being attacked by a wild animal and bollocks to the owner, they don't exist to me in that situation, I am being attacked, but then I am an able bodied adult, there are other members of society who are not so capable.

Insurance is one thing, but it does not prevent the attack in the first place, insurance is akin to saying a person can suffer whatever from a dog, but no worries, they might get paid for it, as if money answers all problems, it does not, as psychological damage lasts far longer than physical wounding.

To me the answer is all dogs considered dangerous or not should be muzzled in public, that removes the possiblity of attack in the first place, problem solved , let's keep the insurers out of it, as they are just there to make money, and in Britain's case it is always interesting to note what legislation comes out that benefits the legal profession, laws made by law professionals that benefit law professionals, just look at those in power what they are qualified in, most are barristers, lawyers, and solicitors, their primary occupation before their current occupation.

Fair enough, a muzzled dog can't pick up a ball, or a stick, but then muzzles as they exist are the same as they ever were, perhaps some enterprising person can design something better that allows a dog to play but stops the biting, an opportunity for the designers this country seems to say they want more of and there business that helps all, not just the few.




LaTigresse -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:07:30 AM)

I don't mind that legal tracking factor.....I am not doing anything to worry. As far as any other reason, just because I have a phone does not make me obligated to answer it. If it annoys someone that I don't answer their calls........too bad. It's my phone, I pay the bill. I can utilize the service as I see fit. Most of the time, the ringer is shut off and it is sitting someplace not near me.

It's only a leash if I allow it to be.




Smutmonger -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:10:11 AM)

I don't even use my land line all that much. I prefer my email-I deal with communications when I want to.




LaTigresse -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:11:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I don't even use my land line all that much. I prefer my email-I deal with communications when I want to.


Agreed..........and that is how I use my cell phone. When I want. I got rid of the land line as it was a waste of money.




Musicmystery -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:14:39 AM)

Even my dog doesn't have a cell phone.




Aneirin -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:18:15 AM)

Oddly, many of my age group and older that I know are losing interest in the cell phones, many though they have them, don't carry them anynore, they prefer the freedom from it when not required to be in contact, work for exampe. My own cell phone, I have devolved from a smart phone to a basic phone, which is either invaribly discharged, or somewhere I can't find it when it rings, I no longer check I have it with me when I go out, the landline, it's just there primarily for my internet, it rings rarely and when it does if it falls outside of specified times my pals know, I ignore it, other times when I am asleep, I plain don't hear it, but that goes for any other alarm too.




Wolf2Bear -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:18:26 AM)

Many cities here in Canada have adopted tougher by-laws regarding what many consider "vicious" breeds like the doberman, pitbulls, rotties etc and to some extent it has helped reduce the number of uneducated and ignorant people from owning these breeds because they think it's "cool."  Too often I see idiots raising a large breed dog without any knowledge of that breed and using fear and physical punishment to "train" these dogs and inevitably, they have a dog that has learned to be aggressive to the point where the potentil of that dog attacking a human is a guaranteed fact.

I fully agree with Wyld, it is a responsible person who raises a responsible dog - no matter what breed of the canine. I have great sympathy for the legitimate dog breeders as they do all they can to educate the general public regarding these breeds and try to pass on the knowledge that it is always on how you raise a dog that determines if it's a great family pet or a very vicious one. Having laws are fine to regulate and attempt to curb the number of dog attacks on people, part of the problem is not enough animal control officers to enforce these laws coupled with he fact that general public needs to be educated more then what they are now. Kudos to the dog owners who raise their dogs to be non vicious pets using common sense.




Phoenixpower -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:18:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As far as certain breeds being more dangerous........yes I do believe there are some breeds more likely to be aggressive based upon what that breed was created to do. The Presa Canario is an example. And those breeds really should be handled by very specific people. The pit, if bred well, is definitely not one. I trust my son's pit and my daughter's GSD around the grandkids WAYYYYYY more than I trust a certain 12# red diva dog. And I know a black lab that is far more aggressive and bitey than any pit I have ever met.


Whilst I am personally not a fan of dogs and even less a fan of pitbull breads (whatever positive or negative story comes onto my ear) in Germany people pay tax for every kind of breed as to see here (just as information...)


http://berlin.angloinfo.com/information/32/animals.asp (as thats the overall information below is the copy of the actual part about tax)


Dog Tax (Hundesteuer)
Dogs in Germany must be registered at the local town hall and dog tax (Hundesteuer) must be paid. This is the equivalent of a dog licence and the cost varies between local councils and different breeds of dog are taxed at different rates (for example a Chihuahua costs less than a Doberman), and in some places owners must pay per dog. In Berlin, for example, second and subsequent dogs are charged at a higher rate than a single dog so as to discourage people from owning too many. In other states the same rate is charged irrespective of whether one or two dogs are owned and some states do not levy a charge for a second dog. Dog tax must be renewed annually.

On arrival in Germany, dog owners have 30 days to register their dog and pay the tax.

For an overview of dog tax by district: Click here (in German) (to click the actual homepage has to be opened)
For more information about dog tax: Click here (in German) "" ""
Guide dogs for the blind, hearing dogs for the deaf and other assistance dogs used by disabled persons as well as dogs used by forestry officials and gamekeepers are exempt from dog tax.

Cats do not need a licence. Other animals such as rodents and birds seldom need any specific form of ID.


and here (from the same link as above) about breed restrictions:

Restricted Breeds
Attacks on members of the public by certain breeds of dog have led to legislation restricting ownership of dogs deemed to be a danger to the public. The Law on Restrictions for the Introduction and Importation of Dogs (Hundeverbringungs- und einfuhrbeschränkungsgesetz HundVerbrEinfG) came into force in Germany on 1 April 2001. Certain breeds of dog considered as dangerous are no longer allowed into the country. The customs authorities enforce this law. In the main, the following breeds and their cross-breeds will be refused entry:

Pitbull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Terrier
In addition, some other breeds are outlawed by various districts. Dog owners would be well-advised to check with their local authorities. Exceptions are sometimes made for tourists and disabled persons as long as satisfactory paperwork can be supplied to the effect that the dog is not considered of a violent nature.

For the fullest and most up to date information consult the German Customs and Immigration site




LaTigresse -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:20:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Even my dog doesn't have a cell phone.


Poor dog! I am sure you have now instilled a terrible inferiority complex in your dog. It will be made fun of at all the doggy gatherings! I can here them now at the dog park..."Can you believe that?? Patches doesn't have a cell phone! I don't think his/her owner really cares about him/her.........what if he/she gets lost? Or is late coming home from the park?"




myotherself -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:21:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady




I didn't mention the chips at all. I think they are great, specifically for instances when your pet may be lost.


Hi LaT - the chip bit of my post was aimed at Pahunkboy. I should have made it clearer [:)]




Musicmystery -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 8:42:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Even my dog doesn't have a cell phone.


Poor dog! I am sure you have now instilled a terrible inferiority complex in your dog. It will be made fun of at all the doggy gatherings! I can here them now at the dog park..."Can you believe that?? Patches doesn't have a cell phone! I don't think his/her owner really cares about him/her.........what if he/she gets lost? Or is late coming home from the part?"



You ready for this? She doesn't even use email. Doesn't even have an account! I have to handle the vet email.

But, country dog and husky that she is, I assure you, she is major league wired into the Sniffnet.

Show me a GPS that can follow a snow covered trail at a run, and I'll consider it.






LaTigresse -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:04:38 AM)

I haven't even told Sophie and Sandy that other dogs get cell phone or internet access. I just keep them barefoot and down on the farm........isolated from the luxuries of the spoiled and pampered, city dogs.

They don't even know that special parks for dogs exist!!!




pahunkboy -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:10:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

And just to clarify about the microchips, PA - they are passive devices, designed to be read by a scanner (in much the same way as a store security tag). They are not active (powered) - they cannot be triggered and 'traced' in a GPS-like way. You have to be within inches of the device to read it, so no need for tin-foil dog coats just yet...[8|]


I know some about chips.   My former coworkers will tell you- that yours truly invented something for NASA.




Musicmystery -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:12:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I haven't even told Sophie and Sandy that other dogs get cell phone or internet access. I just keep them barefoot and down on the farm........isolated from the luxuries of the spoiled and pampered, city dogs.

They don't even know that special parks for dogs exist!!!



Yeah, but then those city dogs don't know about rabbits and deer.....

As far as my dog is concerned, the world IS a special park for dogs!





LadyEllen -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:14:31 AM)

Dog Licences were repealed a long time ago in the UK - over half of all owners didnt have them and nothing came of failure to obtain one, so all in all it was a waste of time.

But I think we're all agreed, it isnt the dog thats a problem - as with almost everything else of a like nature, its the large proportion of the population who are clueless morons, the only answer of government to which is to pass laws that said clueless morons dont care about anyway.

Chipping clueless morons and requiring them to insure the rest of us against their stupidity might be the way forward.

E




pahunkboy -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:26:05 AM)

This is rather awkward.

I almost made some comments-  but a few on here would never ever drop it.   So- I guess I say nothing.

// as to locally dog licenses are enforced.   The fee is $4 or $7.   (seniors- and spaded get a discount)

people it seems are very irresponsible with dogs.




domiguy -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:26:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I don't even use my land line all that much. I prefer my email-I deal with communications when I want to.


wow.




Musicmystery -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:29:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

as to locally dog licenses are enforced.   The fee is $4 or $7.   (seniors- and spaded get a discount)

people it seems are very irresponsible with dogs.


Dog licenses are cheaper here, and enforced every once in a while.

They serve no purpose whatsoever. It's extra tax revenue, period.




LaTigresse -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:32:18 AM)

I have no idea if, where I live, dogs even ARE licensed! Mine are not, that much I do know.

I can just see someone driving farm to farm, trying to figure out how many dogs live there and whether or not they are licensed.........NOT.




domiguy -> RE: Tougher measures introduced for dog owners (3/10/2010 9:33:02 AM)

If i lived in a rural area I wouldn't give two squirts about much of this stuff.

I love dogs. Allergic to most of their dander but love the critters nonetheless. Most people in the city, at least where I live, are pretty responsible when it comes to tending to their pets. pick up their shit. keep them on a leash...On and on.

In Chicago there are leash laws and there are specific "dog friendly parks" where your dog is in an enclosed area and can run free. It pisses me off to no end when these fucking dog owners unleash their dogs when they are in a park full of people and kids.

These are the same type of people that think that everyone loves their kids or loves having their mangy mutt run by them and jump on them.

I like dogs it's people that I have a problem with.





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