RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center!

RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:11:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery On the other: Economic Left/Right: -4.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.36 But on a lot of the questions, I was neither agree/disagree, so seems a flawed overview. That's the problem I had, too. On at least 3, maybe 4 questions, there was no sensible "either or" answer. At best, I needed more info, but wound up settling on an answer with which I wasn't really comfortable. I still finished about where I would have expected. A little to the left of the Dalai Lama (that damned fascist) and about on a line with Gandhi and Mandela. And more libertarian than all 3 of them. Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

Kirata -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda That's the problem I had, too. On at least 3, maybe 4 questions, there was no sensible "either or" answer. At best, I needed more info, but wound up settling on an answer with which I wasn't really comfortable. Agreed. I hate forced-choice questions that don't have my answer among the available options. K.

TheHeretic -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:30:38 PM)
5.0 and a -3.23 Gee. I'm a right leaning libertarian. Who would have guessed?

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:36:03 PM)
And of course, the paradigm still provides a perhaps convenient but inaccurate handle. All of us have expressed views and positions outside of our assigned boxes (on free trade, I'm to the right of almost all of you!).

brainiacsub -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain I don't consider myself conservative or liberal and I don't like to be constrained by ideology. I like doing whatever works. They call it being pragmatic so instead of conservatism or liberalism, for me it's pragmatism = moderate. And when I say do whatever works I mean works for everybody - not just the rich. None of the ideologies works all the time in every situation. For instance, Republicans are obsessed with tax cuts and the private sector as a solution to every problem. If you're pragmatic you’re moderate. If Nixon can go to China then it's okay for anyone to be pragmatic or a moderate. Brain, you have described me exactly. These are the exact words I have used to explain my political position and leanings to others. I am indeed a moderate pragmatist. I also believe that this is where most problems will get solved, with those who are willing to consider all options and then pick the one that works the best (note that I did not say pick the one that works ideally). Herein lies the problem - people like us will make enemies on all sides. I have been accused by Libertarians of being a Statist if I accept the premise that govt can and should be involved in solving some problems, even though I hold many Libertarian views on limited govt. I have been accused of being a right wing nut by my Liberal friends if I watch Fox News, although I watch CNN and MSNBC equally. My Conservative friends call me a Marxist if I support Affirmative Action programs, although I believe in free market Capitalism. Ideologues will battle anyone who doesn't support their ideology. Find a flaw or defect in reason in someones ideology and then be prepared to go toe-to-toe with them or walk away. There is often no middle ground. We see this daily in political discourse in this country, and sadly in the forums here as well. I think the political and religious discussions here are a small reflection of society in general. Notice that people retreat to their corners here and nothing ever really gets resolved. The moderates, or people in the middle, just seem to stay clear for the most part. Our political system of Gerrymandering, election laws, campaign finance, among others ensures that the ideologues from any political party will continue to get elected. There are few exceptions, but not enough. Notice that the most viable third party in this country happens to be Libertarian. If Libertarianism ever gets a real foothold, either through the tea parties or some other mechanism, do you think the discourse and the ability to solve problems in this country will get better or worse? (That was a rhetorical question, btw.)

tazzygirl -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 1:44:15 PM)
Economic Left/Right: -5.62 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97 I like being close to Gandhi [:D] As for the other one... Your PERSONAL issues Score is 60%. Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 20%. According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is... LIBERALS usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but tend to support significant government control of the economy. They generally support a government-funded "safety net" to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles. Oddly enough, neither of these surprise me in the least [;)]

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 2:12:45 PM)
It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test! [:D]

Apocalypso -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 2:30:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Actually "extremist" has a definition, and it is not what you are saying, Merc, this is just your definition, which is fine, but stating that this is the definition of extremism is incorrect... Political extremism are the people who march in the street, engage in terrorism, or advocate the overthrowing of the current system. It isn't your garden variety political debater on collarme... I was even joking with Sanity when I stated he is an extremist... I do not actually think he is.. The only person I would say that comes off as a real extremist on collarme is realone. No, I'm an extremist- I fall into both the first and the third of your outlined conditions. That fits in with your point about it being as much about how people present their views as much as the content of them. I suspect that, because I generally discuss and debate in quite an emotionally detached way, quite how radical my politics are tends to fly under the radar a lot of the time. Unless you get me on my hot button issues, most of which are UK focused anyway. As an aside, I find it interesting that one of the standard ways of seeing the left/right divide on here is how much faith people but in government programs. As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here.

NorthernGent -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 2:34:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub It is too short and the questions do not reflect some of the main differences between liberals and conservatives. Butch With Liberalism being a broad spectrum of political thought - it isn't so easy to nail it down in a paragraph. I think of Liberalism as a centre ground point of view with a few core issues e.g. promotion of free trade/support for minimal military spending/advocation of investment in the skills and qualifications of your people - and where business isn't laying the foundations for this then yes it's important that goverment exercises a measure of redistribution of wealth. The rest....the environment etc...not interested at all (other liberals will see the environment as a worthy cause and will call for equality of outcome and oppose free trade). The only two things I can think of that most English liberals would agree on are: a) minimal spending on defence in order to use the money on health or education and b) the promotion of civil liberties such as opposing ID cards/anti-terrorist laws etc. So - even within a 'camp' there will be differences of opinion in philosophy and policy.

juliaoceania -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 2:58:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apocalypso quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Actually "extremist" has a definition, and it is not what you are saying, Merc, this is just your definition, which is fine, but stating that this is the definition of extremism is incorrect... Political extremism are the people who march in the street, engage in terrorism, or advocate the overthrowing of the current system. It isn't your garden variety political debater on collarme... I was even joking with Sanity when I stated he is an extremist... I do not actually think he is.. The only person I would say that comes off as a real extremist on collarme is realone. No, I'm an extremist- I fall into both the first and the third of your outlined conditions. That fits in with your point about it being as much about how people present their views as much as the content of them. I suspect that, because I generally discuss and debate in quite an emotionally detached way, quite how radical my politics are tends to fly under the radar a lot of the time. Unless you get me on my hot button issues, most of which are UK focused anyway. As an aside, I find it interesting that one of the standard ways of seeing the left/right divide on here is how much faith people but in government programs. As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here. Hey... I am not going to negate you... you wanna label yourself as whatever you like, go ahead I am a left leaning Libertarian myself... as far left as anyone else that posts here, including you. In fact I cheer for protesters at economic summits

Louve00 -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 3:51:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test! [:D] LOL. Now thats the way people should think! I can't fault you, Sanity, or any other person for believing what you believe. And I sure wouldn't let a test determines the sure-fire outcome of *what* you are or believe. I said mine was just a "fun, little" test. On the page somewhere, I believe it said it was the world's shortest political test.

juliaoceania -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 4:00:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test! [:D] LOL. Now thats the way people should think! I can't fault you, Sanity, or any other person for believing what you believe. And I sure wouldn't let a test determines the sure-fire outcome of *what* you are or believe. I said mine was just a "fun, little" test. On the page somewhere, I believe it said it was the world's shortest political test. Wow, so we take a fun test and we surmise that it pretty much describes how we previously thought about our political stances, and therefore we are letting the test define us... that is really funny I suppose I get a kick when the daily horoscope gets it right once in a while too, but I certainly do not define my life by it or even believe it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 5:44:23 PM)
julia, Sense of humor girl. See? --> [:D]

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 5:46:35 PM)
quote: As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here. It's a good point. Insisting on seeing the world through a left/right paradigm prevents seeing realities like this one.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:04:45 PM)
FR The problem is in truth you could break down the entire spectrum on Abortion. Any Republican or Conservative who is pro life gets tagged with being an Extremist or Hard Right no matter where they stand on other issues. Any Democrat who is pro-life is deemed a Moderate and Centerist (publically, privately they are called wack jobs) no matter their stand on other issues.

kittinSol -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:06:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery julia, Sense of humor girl. See? --> [:D] I just have to say, this is a really rather patronising comment, in the face of a very articulate and intelligent poster. Not many women like to be called "girl", and I doubt very much that you'd enjoy being called "boy" by anyone, let alone a woman. I'm not trying to speak for Julia, but I hope she won't mind me saying that this was out of order.

TreasureKY -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:07:01 PM)
I apologize for disappearing for so long in mid-conversation. We were traveling from Las Vegas and just arrived back home. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery ... This is an issue that deserves its own thread, please. I don't disagree, however, you claim that no one can identify issues that they would consider further right than their own. It shall be difficult to do so without going into the issues themselves... at least to some extent. If you'll recall, I simply stated my feelings on the issue of evolution with regard to education. You were the one who had to challenge my statement. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Also---please, things are distorted enough. I didn't say it places you "far to the right." I said "right." It is, in fact, a conservative position. So far, no one seems to know what "far right" might be. It would seem that you already place people according to your own scale. From your comment to me... quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery So seems you've gone from center to right rather promptly on education. You've clearly made a judgment call with no regard to my own stated classification. I believe I had already said that I considered myself "center right"... in other words, moderate but leaning toward the conservative side. With the example I gave, I was demonstrating an issue in which my feelings were conservative but where I felt there were viewpoints far further right than my own. It seems to me that you ask the questions, but are not willing to listen to the answers given. Pity, that.

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:13:07 PM)
Drop the attitude. You're making erroneous assumptions. People are damn touchy of late, and needlessly. You started by talking about coddling children. Later, you moved to discussing evolution as a philosophy topic rather than science. That's a move from center to right by pretty much anyone's definition. If you mean that demoting evolution from science is NOT your view, but rather to the right of you, I misunderstood, as it's not what you said. I can only read what you write. Not psychic here.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:38:44 PM)
FR: [image]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7619/politicalcompassprintab.png[/image] [image]http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2851/drawphp.png[/image] I am a "centralist" according to the Political Compass (does that make me a moderate?), and a flaming Libertarian according to the Advocate test. I'm called a "neo-con", "right wing fascist", "christian fundamentalist wacko" by many of the more "left" members of the forum. Firm

Musicmystery -> RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! (3/13/2010 6:47:00 PM)
Interesting. I've always seen you as a middle of the road conservative, one usually fair and balanced when sharing your views. Oh, the fun of tests and paradigms!

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