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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:47:48 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Drop the attitude. You're making erroneous assumptions. People are damn touchy of late, and needlessly.


My attitude is fine just where it is, thank you very much.  People may appear to be needlessly touchy to you of late, but consider that you are the common denominator in those conversations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You started by talking about coddling children. Later, you moved to discussing evolution as a philosophy topic rather than science.

That's a move from center to right by pretty much anyone's definition.


The shift of topics was in reply to a comment by RealOne.  As I've tried saying from the very beginning of this thread, people don't necessary view all issues from the same point on the political spectrum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If you mean that demoting evolution from science is NOT your view, but rather to the right of you, I misunderstood, as it's not what you said.

I can only read what you write. Not psychic here.


No, that is not what I meant or said.  I was very clear with what I said and I divulged precisely what I wished to on the issue.  If you could not understand that within the context of the conversation we were having, then I cannot help you and I'm afraid our discussion is over. 

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:48:16 PM   
Sanity


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My "Advocates" score.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/quiz.php


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:53:04 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
You started by talking about coddling children. Later, you moved to discussing evolution as a philosophy topic rather than science.

That's a move from center to right by pretty much anyone's definition.

If you mean that demoting evolution from science is NOT your view, but rather to the right of you, I misunderstood, as it's not what you said.

I can only read what you write. Not psychic here.


No, that is not what I meant or said.  I was very clear with what I said and I divulged precisely what I wished to on the issue.  If you could not understand that within the context of the conversation we were having, then I cannot help you and I'm afraid our discussion is over. 



OK. Then my take on your position was correct the first time, and whatever you're spouting about, I can't imagine.

Yes, probably a pointless discussion from here, I agree.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/13/2010 6:55:05 PM >

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 9:09:30 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I just have to say, this is a really rather patronising comment,



Hush now, girl.  Men are speaking.  I'd think with your fondness for Fundie Islam, you would understand how this works.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 11:44:25 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		I think that may have been the single best post I ever read on CM. It borders on political rehtorical perfection.

Nice job Heretic.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:38:39 AM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		FR

....the problem with defining the centre is the same as defining the average. i'm sure we can all remember the diferent types of average we wrestled with at school; mean, median and modal. Assuming a non-homogenous population each type of average can give a different value.

So, in politics, there is no actual centre to be defined.....just an endless argument over the tools that could be used to define such a thing. We all make choices based on one of two approaches......party allegience or issue by issue analysis. Clearly we occasionaly confuse the two. Sophistry is alive and well in this sphere.....

At the end of the day there can be no answer to this question. There is no centre to be held, just as there is no monolithic left or right. There is only the issues.

This thread was begun with an observation that Sanity claimed the centre ground, more or less. i'm sure he thinks he does hold that ground, just as Kittinsol does, just as Firm and Treasure do, just as Julia does, just as MM does, just as i do. We're all correct. In the only analysis that matters, our own. We believe in certain issues and we feel that we are open to reasonable argument. We consider ourselves to argue in good faith. We believe that the force of our arguments can be compelling.

We are all the centre. Except Realone. He's just a bit mad.


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 5:10:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		As one of those whose comments were part of the reason this thread was taken down. I want to apologise to Music for not biting my tongue and keeping my thoughts to myself. I should have known better and I do...however sometimes it is just to easy to lay it out there for all to see, I took the low road.
I may take that road again, because I do bite back...however I apologise to Music and the Mods
that sound s like a 60s group


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:46:01 AM   
Sanity


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I don't know that we're all 'the center' as thats a bit Kum-Ba-Yah-ish for my conservative taste, but still I think its amazing that people with such polar differences on most everything else can almost always manage to find some common ground somewhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....the problem with defining the centre is the same as defining the average. i'm sure we can all remember the diferent types of average we wrestled with at school; mean, median and modal. Assuming a non-homogenous population each type of average can give a different value.

So, in politics, there is no actual centre to be defined.....just an endless argument over the tools that could be used to define such a thing. We all make choices based on one of two approaches......party allegience or issue by issue analysis. Clearly we occasionaly confuse the two. Sophistry is alive and well in this sphere.....

At the end of the day there can be no answer to this question. There is no centre to be held, just as there is no monolithic left or right. There is only the issues.

This thread was begun with an observation that Sanity claimed the centre ground, more or less. i'm sure he thinks he does hold that ground, just as Kittinsol does, just as Firm and Treasure do, just as Julia does, just as MM does, just as i do. We're all correct. In the only analysis that matters, our own. We believe in certain issues and we feel that we are open to reasonable argument. We consider ourselves to argue in good faith. We believe that the force of our arguments can be compelling.

We are all the centre. Except Realone. He's just a bit mad.




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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:54:10 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I think that may have been the single best post I ever read on CM. It borders on political rehtorical perfection.

Nice job Heretic.


Would you two like a moment alone to compliment each other on your perfection?

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:05:31 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I think that may have been the single best post I ever read on CM. It borders on political rehtorical perfection.

Nice job Heretic.


Would you two like a moment alone to compliment each other on your perfection?


Had it been a Gorean chap.. it could have been shrugged off, but really is just poor baiting.


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:25:41 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Had it been a Gorean chap.. it could have been shrugged off, but really is just poor baiting.



Are you suggesting that the complicity, hell, the endorsement, of the mentioned poster in the denial of basic human rights to hundreds of millions of women should somehow be off limits for criticism?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:31:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		snorts no.  what I am suggesting is that you are baiting... and not very well.
That is all



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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 9:40:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		All these issues, and that's all there is to talk about?

This was resolved by cmail two minutes after the initial post, as it was a personal, not a group matter.

More people should try that. It would clean up the boards quite a bit.

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Profile   Post #: 213
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 9:42:14 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....the problem with defining the centre is the same as defining the average. i'm sure we can all remember the diferent types of average we wrestled with at school; mean, median and modal. Assuming a non-homogenous population each type of average can give a different value.

So, in politics, there is no actual centre to be defined.....just an endless argument over the tools that could be used to define such a thing. We all make choices based on one of two approaches......party allegience or issue by issue analysis. Clearly we occasionaly confuse the two. Sophistry is alive and well in this sphere.....

At the end of the day there can be no answer to this question. There is no centre to be held, just as there is no monolithic left or right. There is only the issues.

This thread was begun with an observation that Sanity claimed the centre ground, more or less. i'm sure he thinks he does hold that ground, just as Kittinsol does, just as Firm and Treasure do, just as Julia does, just as MM does, just as i do. We're all correct. In the only analysis that matters, our own. We believe in certain issues and we feel that we are open to reasonable argument. We consider ourselves to argue in good faith. We believe that the force of our arguments can be compelling.

We are all the centre. Except Realone. He's just a bit mad.


Agreed, phil--almost.

Yes, the overall point here is the uselessness of any artificial paradigm, and the left/right one has become such a basic and habitual filter that people forget it's not reality. On this, conservatives, moderates and liberals in this thread have agreed.

But just because, yes, the middle is squishy to define, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That too is the point. While the sides line up, people aren't on one side or the other--most are in the middle. And even on each side, there are people there close to the middle. So we have the illusion---and here, yes, then media contributes to this---of conflicts and divides much wider than they are. This perception is then exploited for political gain.

It's not true. The electorate needs to remember this, overlook the rhetoric and focus on the true issues and how best to address them.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:05:22 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



But just because, yes, the middle is squishy to define, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That too is the point.


...well, a middle exists whenever there are two poles to define it. Thing is, there's no such thing as the middle.

As the poles shift from issue to issue, so does that centre. The assumption I think you're making is that we can pin down that moving target. i don't think we can.

To use a physics metaphor.....i don't think there's a unified field theory of politics. It's all in flux, all the time.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:09:39 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I don't know that we're all 'the center' as thats a bit Kum-Ba-Yah-ish for my conservative taste, but still I think its amazing that people with such polar differences on most everything else can almost always manage to find some common ground somewhere.



...heh, but Sanity, in my view you're one of those people that don't shift your views from issue to issue.......you pretty much always come across as 'my party right or wrong'. To put it another way, if it isn't classed as 'conservative' you view it with distrust without actually looking at the issue in detail. Take your posts a while back regarding the SCOTUS giving the same rights to corporations regarding free speech as individuals. While you're quite capable of arguing non-dogmatically, your posts on that issue were little to do with the arguments presented and much more to do with toe-ing a party line.

i'm not saying that you ought not do that....just that you are partisan in a way that not all people are.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:19:09 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

<snip> I'd think with your fondness for Fundie Islam <snip>



Your Mummy should have told you it was naughty to lie. She obviously didn't, so I'll have to do her job for her: it's naughty to lie, Richie .

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:22:55 PM   
Sanity


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The SCOTUS case you're referring to is a poor choice on your part because my position backing the Supremes runs counter to most everyone else, including a lot of Republicans. The majority, I believe. Peoples' knee jerk reaction is that groups of people (corporations) have no rights but I believe that the constitutional freedom of assembly combined with the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances trumps Congress' abilities to pass laws trampling said rights.

Which, that position flies in the face of the majority who in my opinion fail to see the broader implications. Really, I believe its your own faithful allegiance to all things Liberal which is coloring YOUR views of ME.



quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...heh, but Sanity, in my view you're one of those people that don't shift your views from issue to issue.......you pretty much always come across as 'my party right or wrong'. To put it another way, if it isn't classed as 'conservative' you view it with distrust without actually looking at the issue in detail. Take your posts a while back regarding the SCOTUS giving the same rights to corporations regarding free speech as individuals. While you're quite capable of arguing non-dogmatically, your posts on that issue were little to do with the arguments presented and much more to do with toe-ing a party line.

i'm not saying that you ought not do that....just that you are partisan in a way that not all people are.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/14/2010 12:25:36 PM >

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:26:21 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Really, I believe its your own faitful allegience to all things Liberal which are coloring YOUR views of ME.



.....not impossible. i don't think it's true, i think i'm being impartial and objective........but, by my own thesis, what i percieve as impartial and objective could be viewed as hyper-partisan by another.
All this really proves is that the political compass doesn't point to a true north........we each define north for ourselves.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 12:34:29 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		The weird thing about this sort of ridiculous argument is that neocons somewhere to the right of Ayn Rand and Adolph Hitler's pointy headed fascist lovechildren always insist that they're centrist, while slightly left leaning centrists always insist that they're so socialist they make Kropotkin look like Ted Heath.
Funny that. One bunch try to minimise, dismiss or lie about their allegiance, while the other lot massively overinflate theirs like a prop at an AC/DC concert.

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