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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 2:57:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The weird thing about this sort of ridiculous argument is that neocons somewhere to the right of Ayn Rand and Adolph Hitler's pointy headed fascist lovechildren always insist that they're centrist, while slightly left leaning centrists always insist that they're so socialist they make Kropotkin look like Ted Heath.
Funny that. One bunch try to minimise, dismiss or lie about their allegiance, while the other lot massively overinflate theirs like a prop at an AC/DC concert.


Hey man, don't piss in my cheerios...

I would deny being a leftist of the far left persuasion, but I get assured time and time again there isn't anything moderate about me.


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 3:02:21 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		A good point, well made. I was forgetting you're posting from a country where a right leaning centrist gets called a Marxist. That one obviously cuts both ways.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 3:47:36 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

A good point, well made. I was forgetting you're posting from a country where a right leaning centrist gets called a Marxist. That one obviously cuts both ways.


I would possibly classify myself as a social anarchist, and yes, some of us know what that means


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 6:49:54 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
But just because, yes, the middle is squishy to define, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That too is the point.

...well, a middle exists whenever there are two poles to define it. Thing is, there's no such thing as the middle.

As the poles shift from issue to issue, so does that centre. The assumption I think you're making is that we can pin down that moving target. i don't think we can.

To use a physics metaphor.....i don't think there's a unified field theory of politics. It's all in flux, all the time.

I think we're having semantic differences, phil, more than substantive ones.

Sure, the edges define the middle. And those edges are assumptions, paradigms picked rhetorically for those edges. But when those edges think they are the reality, and that there is nothing but edges, no existent middle(s), it's a lens that distorts more than it instructs.

I think the left/right paradigm does that. Everything is left or right. But everything isn't. The middle--or the middles, if you prefer, are there, and in fact, large (more than a third in the Gallup poll).

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:21:12 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The weird thing about this sort of ridiculous argument is that neocons somewhere to the right of Ayn Rand and Adolph Hitler's pointy headed fascist lovechildren...


How can you group Ayn Rand's objectivist anti-state "leave everyone alone so the brilliant can succeed" dogma with Hitler's "let the state run everything and subordinate individual will to the uber-government" philosophy? The two are at different ends of the spectrum.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:30:47 PM   
Silence8


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Status: offline 		A good indication that Sanity isn't center anything is when he argues Fox news is moderate. That's a clear point of reference were there ever one.

Still, the argument doesn't fly that the far left and far right are ruining things for moderates. Maybe the reason the proverbial center seems so amorphous is, one, its basic opportunism, and, two, that it fails to see outside everyday ideology and lacks the drive to reorganize the values embedded in experience. Perhaps moderates are simply kings of convenience; what could be more American?

Again, what's easy to miss, as Moonhead and Juliaoceania note, is that the whole field of discussion is shifted rightward (despite the joke of liberal bias in the media); the right is moderate, the center is left, and the left isn't mentioned.

So, I know for MM moderation is a key stance, but I'm having difficulty seeing it. Are you really going to argue, for instance, that Obama is not moderate enough? For what, then, are you arguing? A new party, not coffee, tea, but... tap water? (Many places you can't even drink the tap water, errrr too much moderation, precisely not enough liberals hugging trees, and blocking roads, etc......)

Moderation, furthermore, has destroyed healthcare reform. What's needed instead is a revitalized left, that at least threatens the center-right enough to spur real non-Obamian change from without, rather than kowtowing from within.

A heuristic I've developed, a litmus test for political orientation, and a gross simplification that rings of some truth, and relates back to the theme of everyday ideology: the left says exactly what it believes, the right says the opposite of what it believes, and the middle doesn't believe anything at all.




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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:39:10 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		I'm not sure where you're going here.

The one specific point you did raise--I think Obama needs to (1) take charge and (2) find his inner LBJ--drop the hands-off style and go convince people, one by one if necessary.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:40:07 PM   
Sanity


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Quick question for you, 8. Who do you think it is exactly making FOX News number one in cable news? Number one on cable PERIOD, some nights.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

A good indication that Sanity isn't center anything is when he argues Fox news is moderate. That's a clear point of reference were there ever one.


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:45:11 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		And what percentage of that audience watches to keep track of what the loonies are saying?...what percentage are smoking a joint and just having one hell of a good laugh?
The A-Team was a top ten show for a number of years.....the viewing habits of the American public has never been wht is known as discriminating!

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:47:09 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Quick question for you, 8. Who do you think it is exactly making FOX News number one in cable news? Number one on cable PERIOD, some nights.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

A good indication that Sanity isn't center anything is when he argues Fox news is moderate. That's a clear point of reference were there ever one.



I don't know, most people read newspapers, books, or go online? I'm familiar with this game; even if Fox is the most popular, it's still being watched by less than 3-5% of the population, which is negligible compared to all the attention it gets.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:52:54 PM   
Sanity


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Ever heard the story about the fox and the grapes? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBr_Lq1AsDk

Regardless of how much the far left hates and loathes American television audiences, the majority is still the majority and us moderates still make FOX number one.





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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:55:17 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The A-Team was a top ten show for a number of years.....the viewing habits of the American public has never been wht is known as discriminating!


Nonetheless, Mr. T and Eddie Murphy together....worth the three minutes to watch!

http://www.kontraband.com/videos/5458/Eddie-The-Robber/

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:56:33 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm not sure where you're going here.

The one specific point you did raise--I think Obama needs to (1) take charge and (2) find his inner LBJ--drop the hands-off style and go convince people, one by one if necessary.


He's not going to do that without major pressure from the left, that is, from people organizing around common beliefs, whether they are related to the environment, gender equality, racial equality, sexual equality, or otherwise. My concern is that organizing moderates won't accomplish anything.

Also, this relates to psychology, particularly American psychology -- I still think that moderation and consensus still appear weak, ineffectual, even effeminate, and therefore nothing on which to base a movement or organization. Along these lines, notice how overtly submissive males on these boards receive far less respect than their dominant counterparts...

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:57:39 PM   
Sanity


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Well then why are those of you way out there on the far far left so obsessed with FOX News (or anyone who objects to all of your spin and lies about it).

?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8
I don't know, most people read newspapers, books, or go online? I'm familiar with this game; even if Fox is the most popular, it's still being watched by less than 3-5% of the population, which is negligible compared to all the attention it gets.


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 7:58:37 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Agreed.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:00:27 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I've mentioned this before. When Obama tries to please his base he loses more moderates, and when he reaches out to moderates his base becomes even further enraged.

I almost feel sorry for him because he just can't win no matter what he does.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

He's not going to do that without major pressure from the left, that is, from people organizing around common beliefs, whether they are related to the environment, gender equality, racial equality, sexual equality, or otherwise. My concern is that organizing moderates won't accomplish anything.

Also, this relates to psychology, particularly American psychology -- I still think that moderation and consensus still appear weak, ineffectual, even effeminate, and therefore nothing on which to base a movement or organization. Along these lines, notice how overtly submissive males on these boards receive far less respect than their dominant counterparts...


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:00:33 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Ever heard the story about the fox and the grapes? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBr_Lq1AsDk

Regardless of how much the far left hates and loathes American television audiences, the majority is still the majority and us moderates still make FOX number one.



Your response represents both ideology and delusion, I'm afraid.

Actually, if there's one thing moderates across the board agree on, it's hating Fox news. I think it's almost too easy an issue, frankly, sort of like a local 'Free Tibet!' -- Fox news functions as a way for moderates to avoid self-criticism.

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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:04:06 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ever heard the story about the fox and the grapes? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBr_Lq1AsDk

Regardless of how much the far left hates and loathes American television audiences, the majority is still the majority and us moderates still make FOX number one.




Or,an alternative argument could be made that you moderates are easy to entertain.....much like mushrooms you do best when fed shit and kept in the dark!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:06:52 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You should be afraid, because the delusion is yours. You're so full of it!

If moderates hated Fox, really now, it would not be the most popular news channel on cable. And if no one watches it, you far lefty types wouldn't be on suicide watch all the time because of how popular it is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

Your response represents both ideology and delusion, I'm afraid.

Actually, if there's one thing moderates across the board agree on, it's hating Fox news. I think it's almost too easy an issue, frankly, sort of like a local 'Free Tibet!' -- Fox news functions as a way for moderates to avoid self-criticism.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/14/2010 8:07:40 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8
Along these lines, notice how overtly submissive males on these boards receive far less respect than their dominant counterparts...


I haven't noticed that submissive males receive far less respect. Of course, I don't pay them any attention.

Oh. Wait...

Nevermind.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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