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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:36:10 PM   
kdsub


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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:39:50 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Add to that non-caring parents, moms who are too stressed to care what the 5 kids do after school, kids who need glasses and have no money to get them, kids who have no warm clothes, kids who enter kindergarten not knowing colors and numbers up to 10....


Perhaps those parents care, but they are working two jobs just to pay the mortgage and they cannot buy their kids glasses because they have no money... stressed out over economics to the point it hinders their parenting.... a problem with the entire system, not the parents who are operating within it...



Perhaps somewhere, but not in my experience.  They are too busy looking for their next baby daddy or their next handout or their next drink or hit of crack.  Or they are too under or uneducated to have a clue how to raise a child.

In my experience, there are way more parents who are too busy working to not have to work than there are those working hard to survive.  When a group (faculty) sees a parent or family struggling, when they aer doing all they can do, we come together and do all we can to help.  That includes finding housing, clothing, and many other things.

When you find a parent or family who just flat ass does not care, all you can do is try to help the child in any way you can, and hope the parents won't snatch them up and move when the rent comes due next month.

Again, most problems, as a whole, start at home.  There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.

eta a most important most

< Message edited by JstAnotherSub -- 3/14/2010 1:43:30 PM >

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:40:00 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Unfortunately it really is like what Marx said with regard to Alienation from what we produce... mechanized, devoid of artistic integrity or authenticity... like we are a bunch of consumers... Brave New World style... we live for brand names and define ourselves by them...how does this work for the average person?


Not nearly as well as the average person thinks it does I'm afraid.

Reminds me of an old tune:

"And you think you're so clever and classless and free.
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see."

(Thank you Mr Lennon, bless your soul.)

But I'm still interested in MM's response to whether the system works for or against the common man, since he seems to think that the system shouldn't be complained about.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:42:38 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Add to that non-caring parents, moms who are too stressed to care what the 5 kids do after school, kids who need glasses and have no money to get them, kids who have no warm clothes, kids who enter kindergarten not knowing colors and numbers up to 10....


Perhaps those parents care, but they are working two jobs just to pay the mortgage and they cannot buy their kids glasses because they have no money... stressed out over economics to the point it hinders their parenting.... a problem with the entire system, not the parents who are operating within it...



Perhaps somewhere, but not in my experience.  They are too busy looking for their next baby daddy or their next handout or their next drink or hit of crack.  Or they are too under or uneducated to have a clue how to raise a child.

In my experience, there are way more parents who are too busy working to not have to work than there are those working hard to survive.  When a group (faculty) sees a parent or family struggling, when they aer doing all they can do, we come together and do all we can to help.  That includes finding housing, clothing, and many other things.

When you find a parent or family who just flat ass does not care, all you can do is try to help the child in any way you can, and hope the parents won't snatch them up and move when the rent comes due next month.

Again, problems as a whole, start at home.  There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


I am sure that there are a large number of people that you describe, but in my experience most people love their kids, they just do not have the tools to raise them... I do not know where your school is located or the population it serves, but there are a lot of people out of work right now, a lot of hopelessness is out there too.

Sad really.


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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:47:14 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:48:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

seems to think that the system shouldn't be complained about.


Apart from who you posted about... not addressing that... about the concept of questioning the system, that is a dangerous thing to do. Most people want to go with the status quo and it isn't until their world is disrupted that they think it might be a good idea to change direction.

I loved the movie the Matrix because they use the virtual world as this delicious metaphor for Foucauldian theory. You can't trust anyone in the Matrix because they can become agents... they are an embedded part of the system. I am too, so are you... I mean logically if we were invaded by aliens from another planet who wanted to change everything, I would resist it. I am not dogging on the fact that most of us are resistant to change, but we are, and that is just part of being human


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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:49:38 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		I work in a district that serves everyone from the very rich to the very poor.  I have made the choice to stay in the part that services a more transient and lower income bunch, because they are who touch my heart.

The ones I have seen that make it to the magnet high schools, which offer arts, to technical specialty diplomas warm my soul and give me hope.  Sadly, I can think of more I know that are now dead or in prison that I can think of that made the grade and got to follow their dreams.

The one thing that stand out is the ones that made the grade had support at home, whether from a parent, grandparent, auntie or uncle, brother or sister.  They all were lucky enough to have someone who cared, and showed them on a daily basis.

Wamt to make a difference? I would say get involved, mentor a child, help them one at a time. Until we can figure a way to get the assholes that make the laws out of office, that is the only thing I know of that I have seen help.

Tis sad...on that we agree for sure.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:49:51 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Most people want to go with the status quo and it isn't until their world is disrupted that they think it might be a good idea to change direction.


I don't think this is true either. Criticism of the school system is pretty rampant, from several sides and constituencies.

ETA: and lots of programs aimed at addressing it--internally, communities, and government.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/14/2010 2:00:50 PM >

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:50:47 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?

People who shouldn't be trusted to dogsit, never mind raise children, breeding loads of kids they can't afford to look after?

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:53:54 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Most people want to go with the status quo and it isn't until their world is disrupted that they think it might be a good idea to change direction.


I don't think this is true either. Criticism of the school system is pretty rampant, from several sides and constituencies.




It is easy to criticize... what do people really DO about it.....see my point?

I mean they are still invested into the system! I am too, so I am not saying this is bad... just noting the truth of it. They just raised our tuition AGAIN. Students pay it or they don't go. Now we could boycott the schools in protest, but they would just find other dupes to take our places... but if we truly had balls we would say "fuck you, we ain't paying" We are all too invested to do that. And why would I do it, my tuition was paid for me. It makes no logical sense for me not to go on the principle that it is wrong to raise our tuition, my status quo wasn't  changed... it is human nature.


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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:54:30 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?


Well, at the risk of being burned at the stake-lol.....

I think it is the deterioration of society as a whole.  Nothing to believe in, folks afraid to discipline children, kids who are not afraid of authority at all and the fact that so many families are in the nth generation of welfare.

I hear so much about we have to uplift the kids, make them have self esteem.  If I were the king of the world, I would try kickin their asses, making them afraid of the consequences if they fucked up, and tell them they are welcome to self esteem when they grow up and mature enough to get it on their own.

Course, I was raised in tha south and I think fear is a great motivator to keep children on the straight and narrow.  It has worked in my family for a long long time. 

Just look at how sweet and precious I am.



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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:55:51 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?

People who shouldn't be trusted to dogsit, never mind raise children, breeding loads of kids they can't afford to look after?


And what Moon said....

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:56:36 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?

People who shouldn't be trusted to dogsit, never mind raise children, breeding loads of kids they can't afford to look after?


So how many people do you think fit that category per capita in our society? And since when did we have this value that people had to be well off to have kids? It used to be that kids benefited their families economically, but now one has to be upper middle class or they shouldn't reproduce? Talk about your social Darwinism


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 1:58:11 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Apart from who you posted about... not addressing that... about the concept of questioning the system, that is a dangerous thing to do. Most people want to go with the status quo and it isn't until their world is disrupted that they think it might be a good idea to change direction.



Of course questioning the system is difficult, as most of us identify with it. We have see many self-appointed guardians of the status-quo here and elsewhere, which demonstrates this point clearly.

quote:

I loved the movie the Matrix because they use the virtual world as this delicious metaphor for Foucauldian theory. You can't trust anyone in the Matrix because they can become agents... they are an embedded part of the system. I am too, so are you... I mean logically if we were invaded by aliens from another planet who wanted to change everything, I would resist it. I am not dogging on the fact that most of us are resistant to change, but we are, and that is just part of being human


Would a critical thinker resist it, even before he knew what their intended changes were?

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:01:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I and most of my peers were and are very interested in our schools. It is the single largest tax we pay... It directly affects my children and my grandchildren.

I have campaigned for two board members, by the way neither belongs to the Christian Coalition, and we have one of the best districts in Missouri academically.

If there is a single important issue in our area it is our schools and the problems they face. I think this hold true for most responsible adults.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/14/2010 2:02:57 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:02:09 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

It is easy to criticize... what do people really DO about it.....see my point?


Multiple programs address this, internally, community, religious, and government.

Others initiate alternates--charter schools, for instance.

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:07:52 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

It is easy to criticize... what do people really DO about it.....see my point?


Multiple programs address this, internally, community, religious, and government.

Others initiate alternates--charter schools, for instance.


And these would be the people who are resisting the status quo because it impacted them and they decided it needed to be changed....

I think that the public school system has damaged a lot of people.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:12:12 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Again, problems as a whole, start at home. There is only so much we can do to try to change the effect of a fucked up homelife.


In your opinion, what is the root cause of all these dysfunctional homes?

People who shouldn't be trusted to dogsit, never mind raise children, breeding loads of kids they can't afford to look after?


So how many people do you think fit that category per capita in our society? And since when did we have this value that people had to be well off to have kids? It used to be that kids benefited their families economically, but now one has to be upper middle class or they shouldn't reproduce? Talk about your social Darwinism


I'm aware how horrible it sounds, but I do think it's a bit irresponsible having kids that you don't know that you can feed or educate. Some people do a wonderful job of rising to the occasion and providing for these children's futures. Others don't, sadly, and I'm sure the situation would be even worse if we had this cultural aversion to sex education, contraception and abortion you have over there.
(I resent the social darwinist thing, though. They're all for this situation as the bigger the underclass, the more fierce the competition for jobs, and the more they can cut wages and benefits.)
I can't break down the problem cases per capita, but there's a shitload of them out there. I spent a while working for the social services in Stoke the other year, and some of the children in need/children in care files were just plain horrifying. Some of it's almost enough to leave you thinking that maybe there was something to the eugenics argument that some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed...

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RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:18:16 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I spent a while working for the social services in Stoke the other year, and some of the children in need/children in care files were just plain horrifying. Some of it's almost enough to leave you thinking that maybe there was something to the eugenics argument that some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed...


I think this when I look at George and Barbara Bush... I mean look at their offspring, even with money and the best of schools look at that they produced.

I am horrified that you would argue that. People who are allowed to remain on social services longer than their time limits are generally mentally incapacitated.. meaning welfare to work didn't work for them. They are not your average poor working family that falls on hard times.


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Public Schools - 3/14/2010 2:23:07 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

There are many people who pursued sports, weren't good enough for the pros, so they coach others with dreams. Or there are artists who go unrecognized so they teach others technique or art history. Just because one is not in the top tier of their profession does not mean they can't be a part of that world and do work that is rewarding and meaningful that they enjoy....


Okay so what about the person whose bliss is dance? They put all their time and energy into that, ignoring the type of schooling which will give them skills outside their bliss. Then they sustain an injury which ends their career, but ooops they don't have skills to find a job so they can sustain themself, what then?

zeph


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