RE: why criticize a sub for smiling?

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LafayetteLady -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 12:13:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U just you comparing what I said to death of um's or natural disaster is ...downright weird and sadistic. Very WEIRD, and creepy (again). You did the same in the other thread when I called you creeeepy. If you had an ounce of intelligence, you would recognize that the comparison is commenting on the human condition. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If my wish was to be 'blissfully miserable' as a submissive who got whipped daily...is that a no no also? My misery adaptability is my business, not yours, since you are not the one who has to whip me nor heal me. Again, if you are going to comment on a public message board, then deal with the reality that others may comment on it. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U MY kink rules? lol, look back/up, I have no internal issues. I enjoy to not enjoy what I want to get. If I get my kicks being emotionally tormented instead of a whip, or with one (helps with that too)...is that a crime to you? (of course it will be, since LF thinks she can tell me what to think). That will be the day some dame bosses me around ok---get it LF??? It isnt' a crime to me. Honestly, I wish someone would start emotionally tormenting you so you took your head out of your asss. I'm quite sure that you don't think you have internal issues. I'm sure you think you are the most normal person in the world. By the way, it would be "LL," not "LF." quote: ORIGINAL: came4U One person's psychopath, is another's lover. IMO, anyone who does the 'play' for the sake of 'I'm going to hurt you at 4:30 pm, see you there' business is not my cup of tea nor choice of partner. I never claimed they are fake, you did. Don't put words into my mouth/keyboard/fingers lady. Yes, those psychopath's are often someone's lover. Until the authorities find the cut up body parts in their basement freezer. No, I didn't claim they were "fake." You made it very clear that you didn't think they were "real." I don't need to put words into your "mouth/keyboard/fingers" at all. You do it quite well all on your own. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You do what you want, I didn't ask what you did. So why do you care what I want to do? Perhaps because on the last threads I told you off, as it should have been, because you were arrogant and out of line? This has nothing to do with you, sadism or masochism, this has to do with 'I want to confront came4u because she just plain bugs me'. Well get over it. You think you "told me off?" That is truly amusing. The bottom line is that I commented on your statement. That is what people on a message board do. It doesnt' matter one little bit to me that some disturbed woman thinks I'm arrogant or out of line. You don't "bug me" at all. You would have to be relevant to do that, and you really aren't the least bit relevant. You really need to come to grips with reality. You post something on a public message board and I commented. You don't like the comment because it conflicts with how you view your life. Tell it to your shrink, they might care. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Unless a thread genuinely involves my taste of kink content or opinion that I feel strongly about, I don't bother. You could learn the same--since you have no bother with sadism or masochism. This thread isn't about sado/masochism. You are the one who brought it up. You also seemed to feel the need to criticize lucylucy for even reading some dom's journal since she is in a relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U so, the question is,...why do you care what some dom said in his profile?? I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? What business is it of yours that she reads other people's public journals? Does it affect you? Or are you just so generally miserable and cranky that you will be snarky at will? quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You don't know my sex life lol. I have no trouble finding it/that/him, thanks. Don't assume. I'm not "assuming" anything. You made the statement: quote: ORIGINAL: came4U I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? sigh, all I know that if I was owned, I wouldn't be here and I'd be the one blissfully happy to never see a computer again and live miserably under his miserable foot. So obviously you ARE having trouble finding it/that/him. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U lol, you get nothing. I am a what I am...A happy girl, who likes to be miserable under the thumb of a VERY capable man, that makes me both miserable and happy. No, I do get it. You are a miserable person, who wants to take their misery out on everyone around them. And you are ignorant enough to not realize that you can't be "miserable" and "happy" at the same time. But then, of course I'm sure you have a different definition of "miserable" than the rest of the world, just like you have your own definition of "sadist" and "psychopath." quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If you find it funny, 'hysterically funny' then scroll up...that would make you a liar and a hypocrite because you said you are quote: I'm neither a sadist or a masochist . I might be further amused to find out how deciding that you feeling you don't "deserve to smile" or want to be "miserable" is hysterically funny rather than sad makes me a hypocrite and a liar. The fact that you are so full of contradictions is hysterically funny. Being miserable brings you happiness....therefore you aren't miserable. A real "sadist" doesn't enjoy a masochist, so therefore would not enjoy you. . quote: ORIGINAL: came4U .in this case, you are a masochist [;)] awe. hate when that happens. I hate catching people in their own ...bull. it hurts [:(] Nope, still not a "masochist." Still think you are a miserable human being who should seek therapy. And still would be absolutely delighted if you found someone who wanted to make you more miserable than you already are. Because then, you would become blissfully absent. In the meantime, I will just continue to laugh at your oxymorons and deluded fantasies, and I will continue to comment on it whenever the mood strikes. Oh yea, and "creepy" is someone who thinks having a psychopath for a lover is a good thing.

LafayetteLady -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 12:16:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U just you comparing what I said to death of um's or natural disaster is ...downright weird and sadistic. Very WEIRD, and creepy (again). You did the same in the other thread when I called you creeeepy. If you had an ounce of intelligence, you would recognize that the comparison is commenting on the human condition. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If my wish was to be 'blissfully miserable' as a submissive who got whipped daily...is that a no no also? My misery adaptability is my business, not yours, since you are not the one who has to whip me nor heal me. Again, if you are going to comment on a public message board, then deal with the reality that others may comment on it. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U MY kink rules? lol, look back/up, I have no internal issues. I enjoy to not enjoy what I want to get. If I get my kicks being emotionally tormented instead of a whip, or with one (helps with that too)...is that a crime to you? (of course it will be, since LF thinks she can tell me what to think). That will be the day some dame bosses me around ok---get it LF??? It isnt' a crime to me. Honestly, I wish someone would start emotionally tormenting you so you took your head out of your asss. I'm quite sure that you don't think you have internal issues. I'm sure you think you are the most normal person in the world. By the way, it would be "LL," not "LF." quote: ORIGINAL: came4U One person's psychopath, is another's lover. IMO, anyone who does the 'play' for the sake of 'I'm going to hurt you at 4:30 pm, see you there' business is not my cup of tea nor choice of partner. I never claimed they are fake, you did. Don't put words into my mouth/keyboard/fingers lady. Yes, those psychopath's are often someone's lover. Until the authorities find the cut up body parts in their basement freezer. No, I didn't claim they were "fake." You made it very clear that you didn't think they were "real." I don't need to put words into your "mouth/keyboard/fingers" at all. You do it quite well all on your own. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You do what you want, I didn't ask what you did. So why do you care what I want to do? Perhaps because on the last threads I told you off, as it should have been, because you were arrogant and out of line? This has nothing to do with you, sadism or masochism, this has to do with 'I want to confront came4u because she just plain bugs me'. Well get over it. You think you "told me off?" That is truly amusing. The bottom line is that I commented on your statement. That is what people on a message board do. It doesnt' matter one little bit to me that some disturbed woman thinks I'm arrogant or out of line. You don't "bug me" at all. You would have to be relevant to do that, and you really aren't the least bit relevant. You really need to come to grips with reality. You post something on a public message board and I commented. You don't like the comment because it conflicts with how you view your life. Tell it to your shrink, they might care. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Unless a thread genuinely involves my taste of kink content or opinion that I feel strongly about, I don't bother. You could learn the same--since you have no bother with sadism or masochism. This thread isn't about sado/masochism. You are the one who brought it up. You also seemed to feel the need to criticize lucylucy for even reading some dom's journal since she is in a relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U so, the question is,...why do you care what some dom said in his profile?? I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? What business is it of yours that she reads other people's public journals? Does it affect you? Or are you just so generally miserable and cranky that you will be snarky at will? quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You don't know my sex life lol. I have no trouble finding it/that/him, thanks. Don't assume. I'm not "assuming" anything. You made the statement: quote: ORIGINAL: came4U I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? sigh, all I know that if I was owned, I wouldn't be here and I'd be the one blissfully happy to never see a computer again and live miserably under his miserable foot. So obviously you ARE having trouble finding it/that/him. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U lol, you get nothing. I am a what I am...A happy girl, who likes to be miserable under the thumb of a VERY capable man, that makes me both miserable and happy. No, I do get it. You are a miserable person, who wants to take their misery out on everyone around them. And you are ignorant enough to not realize that you can't be "miserable" and "happy" at the same time. But then, of course I'm sure you have a different definition of "miserable" than the rest of the world, just like you have your own definition of "sadist" and "psychopath." quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If you find it funny, 'hysterically funny' then scroll up...that would make you a liar and a hypocrite because you said you are I'm neither a sadist or a masochist I might be further amused to find out how deciding that you feeling you don't "deserve to smile" or want to be "miserable" is hysterically funny rather than sad makes me a hypocrite and a liar. The fact that you are so full of contradictions is hysterically funny. Being miserable brings you happiness....therefore you aren't miserable. A real "sadist" doesn't enjoy a masochist, so therefore would not enjoy you. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U .in this case, you are a masochist [;)] awe. hate when that happens. I hate catching people in their own ...bull. it hurts [:(] Nope, still not a "masochist." Still think you are a miserable human being who should seek therapy. And still would be absolutely delighted if you found someone who wanted to make you more miserable than you already are. Because then, you would become blissfully absent. In the meantime, I will just continue to laugh at your oxymorons and deluded fantasies, and I will continue to comment on it whenever the mood strikes. Oh yea, and "creepy" is someone who thinks having a psychopath for a lover is a good thing.

came4U -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 12:47:34 AM)
quote: Again, if you are going to comment on a public message board, then deal with the reality that others may comment on it. reality is, I like what I like. You just don't like it. Not my problem. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U MY kink rules? lol, look back/up, I have no internal issues. I enjoy to not enjoy what I want to get. If I get my kicks being emotionally tormented instead of a whip, or with one (helps with that too)...is that a crime to you? (of course it will be, since LF thinks she can tell me what to think). That will be the day some dame bosses me around ok---get it LF??? quote: It isnt' a crime to me. Honestly, I wish someone would start emotionally tormenting you so you took your head out of your asss. I'm quite sure that you don't think you have internal issues. I'm sure you think you are the most normal person in the world. By the way, it would be "LL," not "LF." awee..you are sooo emotional, stop it. now you are gettin' all sadist on me again [:(] quote: ORIGINAL: came4U One person's psychopath, is another's lover. IMO, anyone who does the 'play' for the sake of 'I'm going to hurt you at 4:30 pm, see you there' business is not my cup of tea nor choice of partner. I never claimed they are fake, you did. Don't put words into my mouth/keyboard/fingers lady. quote: Yes, those psychopath's are often someone's lover. Until the authorities find the cut up body parts in their basement freezer. LOL, the same can be said about anyone who meets or knows ANYONE kinky in general. Are you a bible thumper or somethin' and trying to scare people? quote: No, I didn't claim they were "fake." You made it very clear that you didn't think they were "real." I don't need to put words into your "mouth/keyboard/fingers" at all. You do it quite well all on your own. show that I claimed or said they were fake. Don't turn your distress on me---again. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You do what you want, I didn't ask what you did. So why do you care what I want to do? Perhaps because on the last threads I told you off, as it should have been, because you were arrogant and out of line? This has nothing to do with you, sadism or masochism, this has to do with 'I want to confront came4u because she just plain bugs me'. Well get over it. quote: You think you "told me off?" That is truly amusing. The bottom line is that I commented on your statement. That is what people on a message board do. It doesnt' matter one little bit to me that some disturbed woman thinks I'm arrogant or out of line. You don't "bug me" at all. You would have to be relevant to do that, and you really aren't the least bit relevant. You really need to come to grips with reality. You post something on a public message board and I commented. You don't like the comment because it conflicts with how you view your life. Tell it to your shrink, they might care. I make it clear that you were an idiot, arguing about nothing. lol. I'm not that important that you don't need to check out my profile every other day? noooo, its not me, its YOU. NOoooo I'm not relevant to YOU...nooOoooo. You don't like my comments because they conflict with YOUUUUU. I see no shrink. Can I call yours? I am not disturbed, you are. You really don't make sense. You argue but don't really know why, you just argue in things you have no obvious interest or admited involvement in, that in itself is ...disturbin' hun. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Unless a thread genuinely involves my taste of kink content or opinion that I feel strongly about, I don't bother. You could learn the same--since you have no bother with sadism or masochism. quote: This thread isn't about sado/masochism. You are the one who brought it up. You also seemed to feel the need to criticize lucylucy for even reading some dom's journal since she is in a relationship. Yes it is. She mentioned someone's profile, which involves a KINK that she never heard of obviously. I answered. Anyone else in their right mind would say the same as I did "why would you care what some Dom's profile say or even/why even view dom's profiles if you are 'blissfully happy'? Most in her position ask innocently or they are trolling for a new piece of meat. I wonder at her intentions. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U so, the question is,...why do you care what some dom said in his profile?? I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? quote: What business is it of yours that she reads other people's public journals? Does it affect you? Or are you just so generally miserable and cranky that you will be snarky at will? Yeah. I am. Will you spank me? Why would anyone think some submissives not smiling for punishment is a bad thing? oh no, you won't, ..you are not a sadist, yer no fun. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U You don't know my sex life lol. I have no trouble finding it/that/him, thanks. Don't assume. quote: I'm not "assuming" anything. You made the statement: quote: ORIGINAL: came4U I don't have a 'master to be blissfully happy with'. The question is why do you care about his kink that he wants a gal that he wants to be 'miss misery'? sigh, all I know that if I was owned, I wouldn't be here and I'd be the one blissfully happy to never see a computer again and live miserably under his miserable foot. quote: So obviously you ARE having trouble finding it/that/him. Not having trouble finding HIM. I get what I need, when it matters. Just haven't found the most greatest sadist that I seek. Doesn't mean I haven't been a virgin for the past 10 years. There you go assuming again. You cannot compare what I 'want' with what I 'get'. The two aren't the same but sometimes we make do. I have a hard time finding a man who is an SOB who isn't into all this 'i love you crap'. ok, you got me there :P NO BOBS ALLOWED. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U lol, you get nothing. I am a what I am...A happy girl, who likes to be miserable under the thumb of a VERY capable man, that makes me both miserable and happy . quote: No, I do get it. You are a miserable person, who wants to take their misery out on everyone around them. And you are ignorant enough to not realize that you can't be "miserable" and "happy" at the same time. But then, of course I'm sure you have a different definition of "miserable" than the rest of the world, just like you have your own definition of "sadist" and "psychopath." You are a paranoid person who feels persecution from strangers. My opinons on happiness do not require that you believe the same. Misery to you (unlike me) might be going around a website telling someone that they have the wrong opinions. Happiness to me, is other stuff that you'd never see lol. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If you find it funny, 'hysterically funny' then scroll up...that would make you a liar and a hypocrite because you said you are quote: quote: I'm neither a sadist or a masochist. I might be further amused to find out how deciding that you feeling you don't "deserve to smile" or want to be "miserable" is hysterically funny rather than sad makes me a hypocrite and a liar. The fact that you are so full of contradictions is hysterically funny. Being miserable brings you happiness....therefore you aren't miserable. A real "sadist" doesn't enjoy a masochist, so therefore would not enjoy you. I am not full of contradictions, as you are. My kinks are what they are. If I choose not to be happy when I am being hurt, hmmm where have you been that you missed that in the bdsm handbook?? Where does it say in YOUR handbook that I should be smiling through a punishment of sorts? What makes a girl deserving of a smile if not told to do so? Who are you to decide if my misery is good for me or not? nor is it worthy of you mocking? If you were a man here saying the same things in reverse to a girl, you would honestly be in the wrong for deciding what a kink or a choice of kinkster would be for another. Get a grip. quote: ORIGINAL: came4U .in this case, you are a masochist awe. hate when that happens. I hate catching people in their own ...bull. it hurts quote: Nope, still not a "masochist." Still think you are a miserable human being who should seek therapy. And still would be absolutely delighted if you found someone who wanted to make you more miserable than you already are. Because then, you would become blissfully absent. In the meantime, I will just continue to laugh at your oxymorons and deluded fantasies, and I will continue to comment on it whenever the mood strikes. Oh yea, and "creepy" is someone who thinks having a psychopath for a lover is a good thing. I have no oxymorons. Are you on your own planet or what? Wow, try this routine and tell someone that whips and chains are psychopatic to be used or any emotional kink. I honestly don't think you are thinking straight (again) and I believe you are off on a tangent about nothing that makes any sense. Hmm several times now you have 'hoped' I got hurt, several times you have 'encouraged' someone to find me and hurt me. I honestly find you beyond creepy, but dangerously fuckedup. quote: In the meantime, I will just continue to laugh at your oxymorons and deluded fantasies, and I will continue to comment on it whenever the mood strikes. and I will tell you again, ok. I am not into chicks. So you stalking me is yukky, ok. Maybe if you were cute, it would be flattering, oh and sane maybe., ya, that be hawwt. Since I like pain so much, in my way...I'm the crazy bitch [:(] ohh noooooooo. po me. Sure you can talk but as the OP said on page 1 quote: I smile a lot when I'm with my Owner, not big happy-go-lucky smiles, but I know I have a blissfully happy look on my face a lot of the time, even (especially!) when I'm in serious pain. It obviously doesn't bother my Owner one bit, but I was surprised to see that someone else would be so critical of a smile. I agree with those of you who are seeing this as a threat to him. His other journal entries were very defensive, which I take as a sign of insecurity. I suppose for people who are play partners but not in a relationship, things might be different, but if my Owner didn't want me to smile, I think a ton of energy would drain out of our relationship. I need to be able to laugh and enjoy myself with my partner, even when I'm being tortured. I mean, is there any appropriate reaction besides laughing when he realizes the key to the handcuffs just broke off in the lock and serious tools will be required for removal? But I understand that what works for me doesn't work for everyone. Crap, I'm hijacking my own thread. I made comments on the subect of the thread (some anon profile guy's kink as to not smiling and secondly to the OP's questions and opinons). Some chicks have 'smile n take it' attitude. So she likes to smile and be funny during her play, well, some just don't. Simple. Some men (sadists) would be genuinely insulted by the smirk/smile going on. It is reality, not play. Real hurt, as it should be. Maybe she is comfortable with the nervous laughter thing. Fine. But if some guy has it as a rule that that is a no-no, then simple, don't pick him. a knock that smile off your face kinda thing. Like it or not, but obviously no one here is admitting they do/like it, I am on my own LOL So, LL, get over me ok, we aren't suited.. u got the wrong parts.

VideoAdminZeta -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 6:44:25 AM)
This discussion between the two of you has turned into a thread hijack. Please take it private if you want to continue.

Aileen1968 -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 6:46:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy I'm just trying to understand why anyone would criticize a sub for smiling. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks. Because he's a clueless fucktard? That being said, I smile all the time because of him. People probably think I'm an idiot because of that. He smiles all of the time too. We are doing this whole bdsm thingy so wrong....

dreamerdreaming -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 6:59:38 AM)
Fast reply: Sounds like an insecure, clueless jerk.

Justme696 -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 7:00:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U quote: I am not sure who is weirder...he who forbids smiling..or she who accepts it. Smiling is not something you can forbid or order to happen. Smiling is more then forming your lips......it is just an expression of happiness...more happens within a person If a man/dominant forbids it, there, done. more punishment. Perhaps expression is not allowed, especially of satisfaction or happiness (at that time) quote: Sounds the guy wants a kind of "dead body" to fuck. Necro, is what it is, death, a kink all on it's own that very few participate in. A girl isn't dead just because she is in pain or ...oh ok, well, we can go round n round about the maso/sado enjoy or inflict business. Besides, that is like saying it is OK to smile BUT, if a girl you are whipping and you mean serious business you don't want her to. Is that a requirement? That she it is ok to smile then? but not at other times? Point is, as the OP asked, if a Dominant wants no smiles/smirks on a gal, then do so...or get off the boat. I just give my opinion. No need to explain things to me. ;)

DarkSteven -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 7:23:55 AM)
If I were to set a rule that my sub does not smile, I would expect her to follow it. Now, as to what kind of Dom would make a rule like that...

Missokyst -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 9:20:46 AM)
Perhaps she doesn't smile because he had her teeth yanked for better BJ's quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy He criticized a submissive he was with for smiling, saying basically that a "true submissive" doesn't smile while being fucked or given orders.

Missokyst -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 9:33:18 AM)
Whew... that was hot. quote: ORIGINAL: VideoAdminZeta This discussion between the two of you has turned into a thread hijack. Please take it private if you want to continue. OP, I also do not get the no smiling deal, not when it is the sub smiling or the dominant. If this didn't make me happy I wouldn't be doing it. When I am happy I smile. If my partner did not smile I would wonder what I was doing wrong.

sublizzie -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 9:46:55 AM)
Perhaps he knows someone who fake-smiles to be pleasing or to try to avert punishment? So, for him, it's easier to make a "no smile" rule rather than figure out what is going on in the submissive's head that makes them fake-smile? Santa didn't like my smile so worked on getting me to change it into a happier one. But he liked my smiles, even the ones that turned down rather than up on the edges.

lobodomslavery -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 10:01:39 AM)
Criticised for smiling? In fairness maybe he thinks that Domination is NO LAUGHING MATTER. Kevin

lucylucy -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 10:09:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery Criticised for smiling? In fairness maybe he thinks that Domination is NO LAUGHING MATTER. Kevin But if he thinks Domination is no laughing matter and his sub smiles or laughs, doesn't that say more about the quality of his Domination (within his frame of reference)? If I do dumb things all the time and people keep laughing at me for it, which is more effective--I stop doing dumb things or I make a rule that no one can laugh at me? Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I was just so curious when I saw the "no smiling" comment. I love reading people's journals and have seen a lot of things that were weird to me but I could still understand where they were coming from, but the "no smile" thing--well, that just didn't click for me.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 11:35:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U A masochist IMO would be no use to a real sadist... A sadist by definition is one who enjoys inflicting pain (in reality, upon the unsuspecting OR the unwilling) and therefore a masochist is one who would take mild or even more enjoyment out of pain (for their own sacrificial/unknown deeds). The sadist, a true one (not play) would not fully enjoy the masochist in this case. 1) COMMENTARY: As to the above quote, I must say... I find that quite thought provoking. Yes, I suppose a Sadist (at their core level) would much prefer (and enjoy) inflicting pain, torment, and torture upon the unwilling (a non-masso) rather than the willing (a masso), as the Sadist would KNOW the masso would be relishing with great anticipation/joy the next strike, where the non-masso would be fearful... hating every second of it. The challenges, as I'd see them, would be as follows: a) Under the guise of this dynamic (and in a LEGAL sense), if one is "unwilling", then consent has NOT been given. b) When consent HAS been given, then the only CONSENSUAL/LEGAL pairing is one of a Sadist and massochist (because only a masso would give their consent); leaving the Sadist forever unfulfilled, and left to only "playing" the Sadist. This would actually make a great thread on its own... you should start it. [:)] 2) QUESTIONS: a) If, as a masso, one's goal is "misery", then finding *the most super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* would only result in the masso's HAPPINESS and contradicting their goal of "misery", yes/no? b) As a masso, wouldn't your pairing with said *super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* still result in the Sadist being unfulfilled and left to playing the role of Sadist, because YOU (as a masso) would ENJOY every bit of torment and torture? Seems like a "no win" scenario for either of you, as the Sadist can't legally torture the unwilling/non-consenting, and the masso (if truly desiring misery) is best left to NEVER FINDING a truly evil Sadist; ensuring a life of unfulfilled misery for the masso... yes/no??? [:)]

LafayetteLady -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 2:25:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA 1) COMMENTARY: As to the above quote, I must say... I find that quite thought provoking. Yes, I suppose a Sadist (at their core level) would much prefer (and enjoy) inflicting pain, torment, and torture upon the unwilling (a non-masso) rather than the willing (a masso), as the Sadist would KNOW the masso would be relishing with great anticipation/joy the next strike, where the non-masso would be fearful... hating every second of it. It isn't a matter of the sadist preferring to torment and torture the unwilling. From the analytical point of view, a sadist derives their pleasure from the torment and torture itself. It makes no difference to them whether the person being tormented or tortures enjoys it or not. For some sadists, they don't even need to be the one delivering the torment or torture, although that would certainly enhance the enjoyment. Likewise for the masochist. Their pleasure is derived from the torment and torture they receive (or see others receive). quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA The challenges, as I'd see them, would be as follows: a) Under the guise of this dynamic (and in a LEGAL sense), if one is "unwilling", then consent has NOT been given. b) When consent HAS been given, then the only CONSENSUAL/LEGAL pairing is one of a Sadist and massochist (because only a masso would give their consent); leaving the Sadist forever unfulfilled, and left to only "playing" the Sadist. When the sadist steps into torturing and tormenting the "unwilling," it isn't simply the legal ramifications we all recognize as abuse. A sadist can find release within the realms of BDSM style relationships by finding a consenting partner. As I said earlier, the sadist's pleasure comes from the act itself, not the knowledge that the "receiver" is unwilling. If a sadist were to start inflicting torment and torture on the unwilling, it would be time for psychological intervention, something that would naturally result from the legal ramifications that they caused. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA 2) QUESTIONS: a) If, as a masso, one's goal is "misery", then finding *the most super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* would only result in the masso's HAPPINESS and contradicting their goal of "misery", yes/no? b) As a masso, wouldn't your pairing with said *super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* still result in the Sadist being unfulfilled and left to playing the role of Sadist, because YOU (as a masso) would ENJOY every bit of torment and torture? Seems like a "no win" scenario for either of you, as the Sadist can't legally torture the unwilling/non-consenting, and the masso (if truly desiring misery) is best left to NEVER FINDING a truly evil Sadist; ensuring a life of unfulfilled misery for the masso... yes/no??? [:)] If the first part were true (which it isn't) then your second part would of course also be true. It would also support the concept that the "bottom" is always the one in control of the "top," which is another extremely touchy subject to be sure. The pairing of a sadist with a masochist, in a sense, is a healthy relationship. What would be really terrific would be if LadyPact chimed in on this one. As an actual sadist, she would be best able to shed some light on the subject. I daresay though, that even as a "true" sadist and not one who is just "playing" at being one, I don't think she has an issue with clip smiling (unless it is inappropriate at the time).

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 2:39:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA 1) COMMENTARY: As to the above quote, I must say... I find that quite thought provoking. Yes, I suppose a Sadist (at their core level) would much prefer (and enjoy) inflicting pain, torment, and torture upon the unwilling (a non-masso) rather than the willing (a masso), as the Sadist would KNOW the masso would be relishing with great anticipation/joy the next strike, where the non-masso would be fearful... hating every second of it. It isn't a matter of the sadist preferring to torment and torture the unwilling. From the analytical point of view, a sadist derives their pleasure from the torment and torture itself. It makes no difference to them whether the person being tormented or tortures enjoys it or not. For some sadists, they don't even need to be the one delivering the torment or torture, although that would certainly enhance the enjoyment. Likewise for the masochist. Their pleasure is derived from the torment and torture they receive (or see others receive). quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA The challenges, as I'd see them, would be as follows: a) Under the guise of this dynamic (and in a LEGAL sense), if one is "unwilling", then consent has NOT been given. b) When consent HAS been given, then the only CONSENSUAL/LEGAL pairing is one of a Sadist and massochist (because only a masso would give their consent); leaving the Sadist forever unfulfilled, and left to only "playing" the Sadist. When the sadist steps into torturing and tormenting the "unwilling," it isn't simply the legal ramifications we all recognize as abuse. A sadist can find release within the realms of BDSM style relationships by finding a consenting partner. As I said earlier, the sadist's pleasure comes from the act itself, not the knowledge that the "receiver" is unwilling. If a sadist were to start inflicting torment and torture on the unwilling, it would be time for psychological intervention, something that would naturally result from the legal ramifications that they caused. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA 2) QUESTIONS: a) If, as a masso, one's goal is "misery", then finding *the most super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* would only result in the masso's HAPPINESS and contradicting their goal of "misery", yes/no? b) As a masso, wouldn't your pairing with said *super-duper, evil, bastard of a Sadist that ever walked the earth* still result in the Sadist being unfulfilled and left to playing the role of Sadist, because YOU (as a masso) would ENJOY every bit of torment and torture? Seems like a "no win" scenario for either of you, as the Sadist can't legally torture the unwilling/non-consenting, and the masso (if truly desiring misery) is best left to NEVER FINDING a truly evil Sadist; ensuring a life of unfulfilled misery for the masso... yes/no??? [:)] If the first part were true (which it isn't) then your second part would of course also be true. It would also support the concept that the "bottom" is always the one in control of the "top," which is another extremely touchy subject to be sure. The pairing of a sadist with a masochist, in a sense, is a healthy relationship. What would be really terrific would be if LadyPact chimed in on this one. As an actual sadist, she would be best able to shed some light on the subject. I daresay though, that even as a "true" sadist and not one who is just "playing" at being one, I don't think she has an issue with clip smiling (unless it is inappropriate at the time). I'm not a Sadist (don't know if you are or not?), so I have no idea if the "receiver's" mindest is a factor of their enjoyment or not. I do think this topic is better suited for a thread of its own, and yes... it would be interesting to hear what a number of Sadists have to say on the matter? EDITED TO ADD... STARTED A THREAD ON IT TO AVOID FURTHER HIJACKING ---> http://www.collarchat.com/m_3114935/tm.htm [:)]

Andalusite -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 2:55:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U What good really is a masochist to a sadist? (a genuine sadist, that is, not just a play/pretend one)? I can be a fairly heavy masochist at times, but there are a lot of things that just plain hurt. Plus, a lot of it depends on how warmed up I am, how I feel emotionally toward the other person, hormones, and so forth. Just about anything can be used in a way I'll love or hate. On the flip side, I enjoy hurting people, but I get my pleasure primarily from the way that they react (moaning, squirming, screaming, crying, flinching, etc.) rather than the specific tool I'm using to accomplish it. I do have some favourites, of course.[:D]

LadyPact -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 4:36:15 PM)
What would be really terrific would be if LadyPact chimed in on this one. As an actual sadist, she would be best able to shed some light on the subject. Thank you for asking. My answer back to this is, why would anyone want to eliminate anything they could possibly enjoy? Why close off a part of your world? Wouldn't it really suck if your sub never smiled or looked up at you with a grin on his face? I don't know about anybody else, but My sadism isn't one dimensional. It comes out in different ways, in different moods. I don't want to just be one thing or another, and I don't want that for clip, either. I want us to reach all of the possibilities. All of the potentials. I am lucky enough to have a sub who's smile can light up a room. I would never want to extinguish that. Sure, he might be crying during some of our play times, but if he never knelt, looked up at Me and smiled....... Damn! I'd really be missing something.

DesFIP -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 6:05:07 PM)
There's a belief floating around that a person is only submitting when he/she does things he/she cannot enjoy. This dude apparently buys into it and believes that a partner only shows submission or love by putting up with things they hate and always being denied what they need. In my book, this is a recipe for a short lived relationship. Either we both are fulfilled or eventually neither of us will be.

littlewonder -> RE: why criticize a sub for smiling? (3/14/2010 6:10:39 PM)
Master tries everything he can to make me smile and laugh, even when we're fucking or playing. He likes to see me happy since he knows of the stresses in my everyday life. I've been with Doms though he didn't like a slave to smile or laugh or have fun. They felt it spoiled the the act of submission, that she wasn't being submissive..a slave shouldn't enjoy being submissive because then it's all about her and not about him. I personally can't live that way. It would literally and physically kill me eventually. I need laughter, light, love in my life thanks.

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