RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform

RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 9:02:03 AM)
how much $ cash money will this cost the lowly slave?

tazzygirl -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 9:06:06 AM)
How much will it cost you if they dont cover Native Americans or the Amish? Doesnt matter. The Amish are exempt based upon religious The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a "religious conscience" exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objections. http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100109/NEWS02/301099964

brainiacsub -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:15:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I hear you. I hope PA does too. However PA is doing the reverse. It floors me that educated buffoons here on this list- defend a contract- that they have not read. 2300 pages of gotchas. With any bill there is a quid for quo. What do you pay and what do you get in return. Yet- no one here is the least but interested in what federal reserve notes they will be forced to pay. The Amish will not be subject to this law. Daddy always told me to READ what I sign. Daddy was a very smart man. Count me among the educated buffoons on this list, except that I have read the bill - all 2300+ pages of it - in addition to watcing all 7 1/2 hours of the healthcare summit on CSPAN. (Yes, I am a masochist.) This is not a perfect bill. It is flawed in many respects, but largely because it does not go far enough in correcting all that is wrong with healthcare delivery in this country. But the operative word here is "reform", and you can't reform any dysfunctional system if you are unwilling to acknowledge the root causes of defect. The problem with the Conservatives is that they have offered nothing really substantial in the way of addressing the root problems. I read their tired proposal, too - all 38 pages of it - and they presented all the standard ideological talking points that have great appeal to the like minded and the ignorant, but their "solutions" don't fix anything. Now, if the Conservatives want to have an honest discussion, then let's talk about ideological differences. That's fair and I would bet that we share some of the same concerns. However, it's rather pointless to debate the individual merits of proposed solutions if we don't even agree on the problems.

Sanity -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:37:49 AM)
And I know where all the best spots to fish are, too. Places where I'm the only one around for miles, all summer long. You wannabe rap stars in Chicago can keep your stinking rat-infested ghettos. quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff If Idaho did not have some of the finest trout fishing in the world, I would say dump em, with the south! Jeff

thompsonx -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:45:13 AM)
quote: You don't think the big health insurance co's are kicking anything over to the big Washington Liberals for forcing all this business their way? How much money do you guess is involved here. By this statement it would seem that you would favor a "single payer" system. Which by its nature would prevent such shameful practices as you so rightly abhor.

Musicmystery -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:51:56 AM)
quote: If Idaho wants to. Obviously either you et al on here never learned, have forgotten, or are ignoring that the U.S. Constitution does not grant the Federal government the authority to force anyone to buy anything, much less at risk of a fine and/or jail if they don't. That's the unconstitutional aspect of the Democrats healthcare reform. OK. So instead handle it with taxes and tax credits. Feel better? Incidentally, any state can opt out of Medicare/Medicaid, right from the start. Yet they don't, even though it costs them cash. Why? It's better than the alternative we had before.

thompsonx -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:55:43 AM)
quote: What we have here is one more sign pointing to how this legislation is wildly unpopular, and that it's never going to stand up. Just how many actual people are we talking about here. Not states...how many people?

Musicmystery -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 10:59:29 AM)
I would love to be able to present this choice in actuality, rather than rhetorically, to each American: You can stay in the current system, including with its flaws--among those preexisting conditions, canceling insurances, higher rates for starting late, etc. You can participate in the new system with the new restrictions. The choice is not reversible. If it were a real life choice, I doubt many would stay.

LadyEllen -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:01:00 AM)
Here's what (I wish) I didnt get. There is huge public call for health care reform, for all the well known reasons. So the administration tries it, against a strong tide of vested interests and an opposition hellbent on representing those vested interests rather than the public opinion, the result of which, in trying to calm those vested interests and the opposition is a bill that whilst better than before is actually pretty rubbish all in all (from what I know of it). And then those vested interests and the opposition proclaim to the world that the administration has failed because the bill is rubbish and then go on to use public dislike of the proposed solution to claim that actually no one wants health reform, when its clear to anyone that health reform was a key item in electing the administration and that its only because the administration foolishly decided to allow the vested interests and opposition to have input that the bill is a disaster. Obama needs to get some balls. Start over, do it right and fuck anyone whose idea of politics is to be a wrecking ball in opposition whilst riding roughshod over everyone else when in power. E

pahunkboy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:03:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brainiacsub quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I hear you. I hope PA does too. Count me among the educated buffoons on this list, except that I have read the bill - all 2300+ pages of it - in addition to watcing all 7 1/2 hours of the healthcare summit on CSPAN. You did not read it. The lawmakers did not read it. The only one who read it is the lawyers who wrote it.

thompsonx -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:04:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Pelosi says we have to pass the legislation so that we can find out whats in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvSkeJbQy74 Why don't you know what that means? You are very well versed in this bill but you act like you do not know what that means. Why is that? You know as well as anyone who has been following this that if this bill is passed it will have to be reconciled which can't be done till this is passed when this one is passed and is then reconciled then we will have the final product. You know this or should know this if you intend to have a discussion. If you just want to let the board know your partisan position I think we are pretty well aware of it already.

Musicmystery -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:04:50 AM)
pahb, Is it a terrible burden being psychic? Or does thinking just hurt that much?

tazzygirl -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:05:51 AM)
Lady E Once a ball starts rolling, the momentum has a way of "picking up", if you know what i mean. [:D]

pahunkboy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:09:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Obama needs to get some balls. Start over, do it right and fuck anyone whose idea of politics is to be a wrecking ball in opposition whilst riding roughshod over everyone else when in power. E and we keep having boomerange issues- where it is more then a full time job to attempt to stop the govt from doing stupid things.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:53:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Actually he is right. You don't have to get insurance, unless you plan on driving a car. And nobody has to drive a car. How many people do you know that do not have a car? Off the top of my head. The 2 guys who work at the local 7-11, my friends daughter who has never driven, 3 of my other friends neighbors who always need a ride somewhere and another friend of hers who she takes meals to, two of my cousins, and a guy I used to hang out with, who has since moved to Florida. Now when I lived in West Palm, I knew a lot more and could probably come up with others if I thought about it, but I haven't had any coffee yet, so I will stop here. In 2007 there were 135 million private and commercial automobiles registered. About 1/3 of those are commercial, so there were about 90 million automobiles registered to families. If you assume that 1/3 of those are in multiple car families, that leaves 60 million families with cars. With about 120 million households in the US, that means half the households have no car at all. The most relevant point to the debate however, is that those are state laws. Its the constiutionality of a Federal law thats in question.

tazzygirl -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 11:59:24 AM)
And your opinion of ID's?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 12:03:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And your opinion of ID's? Im not sure what youre asking

pahunkboy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 12:05:48 PM)
MM, there is only one me in the universe.

tazzygirl -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 12:08:01 PM)
OK. Fair enough. In order to do any kind of financial transaction, to fly, even ride on a greyhound, to open a banking account, to go to a bar, ect, you have to have an ID or some sort. And they arent free. How does this differ from the insurance mandate, other than the obvious cost. and while i also realize that you dont get fined for not having an ID, they very well cant deny you emergency care.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Idaho first to sign law against health care reform (3/18/2010 12:10:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl OK. Fair enough. In order to do any kind of financial transaction, to fly, even ride on a greyhound, to open a banking account, to go to a bar, ect, you have to have an ID or some sort. And they arent free. How does this differ from the insurance mandate, other than the obvious cost. and while i also realize that you dont get fined for not having an ID, they very well cant deny you emergency care. There is no federally mandated ID that you are required to have that I know of. Yes, there is a law that restricts the use of non-compliant state IDs for certain Federal purposes, but they are still state issued IDs.

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