quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

morning Master Bull

perhaps we are looking at part of this from the wrong angle. once the child is born, the child becomes protected under the law and is entitled to support from both parents. the child didnt ask to be here, and he or she is truly the only unwilling participant to the whole affair. someone has to support the kid. the state (and federal) laws insist that both parents will. if the child is on welfare, then the parent who does not have physical custody pays the state.

i have often wondered why, with the advent of so much medical advances, why medicine has not found a better form of birth control for men than the condom.

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ORIGINAL: xBullx

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead
My own feeling is that women are entitled to more of a say about this as they're the ones who get their health and their figure wrecked carrying the kid for nine months.

While that may be true it falls flat in the face of logical reasoning....

Lady Liberty is after all..........................blind.

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Moonhead:
Not really. It isn't like the mother can walk out on a pregnancy as soon as she misses her period, is it? A lot of guys do.

(edited for quotery)

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Justice is blind...Lady liberty has a torch to light the way (for others and Herself).

I struggle with the implications on the potential father (father's rights issues) as much as desire to keep the advancements in women's health (mental/emotional and physical). It's a fine fuckin line doncha think?

I also think those that comment most on these issues have never had an abortion themselves (fully guilty here) and have only had to deal with the feelings around it as a secondary individual or observer...which has a vast impact on the individuals who may actually need this medical service at some point in their lives.

boi

P.S. Anti-choicers (no longer "pro-lifers") saying "I had ids and never would have had an abortion" don't count because the process never crosses their minds as a valid option for dealing with an unwanted or unhealthy pregnancy. Anti-choicers who have had to seriously consider the possibility do count as they have situationally had to weight the options. Pro-choicers count because, I assume, they have considered the possibility in a real way (hypothetically or actually) without dismissing it as a "never gonna happen" kinda thing.

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ORIGINAL: xBullx
But do we address with more liberty robbing legislation or get off our collective asses and teach a greater degree of moral (not religious) responsibility.

I hate a government rule or program that relieves men or women from putting forth their own effort and quite possibly excuses them for inappropriate and irresponsible action.

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ORIGINAL: xBull

I hate a government rule or program that relieves men or women from putting forth their own effort and quite possibly excuses them for inappropriate and irresponsible action.

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Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women.  This is a medical fact. 

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Okay.  Then murder isn't an issue.  Thanks.  I'm gonna forget about it then.  Everything is sunny and bright.  Thank you again for enlightening me.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Okay.  Then murder isn't an issue.  Thanks.  I'm gonna forget about it then.  Everything is sunny and bright.  Thank you again for enlightening me.

Are you seriously going to get snarky because your incorrect statistic was challenged?

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Terminating an unwanted pregnancy and choosing to not bring an other unwanted human being into the world is exercising appropriate and responsible action and taking one's responsibilities seriously. It seems to me that staying passively and unhappily pregnant is irresponsible.

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I am pro-choice. Not for the reasons a woman should be able to say what happens to her body, but mainly because I love children.  I love children so much that I hate seeing what happens to those poor unwanted babies.  I hate seeing children negelcted.  Their brains cooked to soup because the parent 'forgot' they were in a hot car while they were nodding out from herion.  That a mother sells her 5 year old for sex to get her next fix.  A father throws his 8-month-old against the wall to get it to stop crying.  I hate hate hate what happens to these babies!  A much more humane thing to suck out a mass of cells than to torture babies after they are born.

Most, probably all, "pro-life" groups could give 2 farts in the wind what happens after the cord is cut.  They shuffle that problem off to law enforcement and a overly worked child welfare system.  Foster care is inadequate at best, or abusive at worst.  Celebrities adopt kids from Africa or China and don't spend one moment thinking about the forgotten children in the US. 

The other reason I am pro-choice is that a pregnant woman has become a target for murder.  This is the biggest reason why the decision should be in the hands of the women, not the men.  Men do not get murdered because they are going to be a father in anywhere near the numbers women are murdered for being pregnant.  Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women.  This is a medical fact.  So a woman walking into an abortion clinic may just be doing so out of fear for her life.  This would, in my opinion, make the procedure 'medically necessary' as we just don't have enough safeguards in place (like a restraining order really will keep a killer away?) to protect women.  Just on this board we were discussing a 12 year old who killed his step-mom-to-be.  He didn't want to kill her before the birth of the baby was apparent to him. 

Until we have an effective way to deal with these social sicknesses, I believe abortion needs to remain a legal and safe option.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: xBull

I hate a government rule or program that relieves men or women from putting forth their own effort and quite possibly excuses them for inappropriate and irresponsible action.

Terminating an unwanted pregnancy and choosing to not bring an other unwanted human being into the world is exercising appropriate and responsible action and taking one's responsibilities seriously. It seems to me that staying passively and unhappily pregnant is irresponsible.

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ORIGINAL: SultryItalian

This!

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Terminating an unwanted pregnancy and choosing to not bring an other unwanted human being into the world is exercising appropriate and responsible action and taking one's responsibilities seriously. It seems to me that staying passively and unhappily pregnant is irresponsible.

And this!

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I am pro-choice. Not for the reasons a woman should be able to say what happens to her body, but mainly because I love children.  I love children so much that I hate seeing what happens to those poor unwanted babies.  I hate seeing children negelcted.  Their brains cooked to soup because the parent 'forgot' they were in a hot car while they were nodding out from herion.  That a mother sells her 5 year old for sex to get her next fix.  A father throws his 8-month-old against the wall to get it to stop crying.  I hate hate hate what happens to these babies!  A much more humane thing to suck out a mass of cells than to torture babies after they are born.

Most, probably all, "pro-life" groups could give 2 farts in the wind what happens after the cord is cut.  They shuffle that problem off to law enforcement and a overly worked child welfare system.  Foster care is inadequate at best, or abusive at worst.  Celebrities adopt kids from Africa or China and don't spend one moment thinking about the forgotten children in the US. 

The other reason I am pro-choice is that a pregnant woman has become a target for murder.  This is the biggest reason why the decision should be in the hands of the women, not the men.  Men do not get murdered because they are going to be a father in anywhere near the numbers women are murdered for being pregnant.  Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women.  This is a medical fact.  So a woman walking into an abortion clinic may just be doing so out of fear for her life.  This would, in my opinion, make the procedure 'medically necessary' as we just don't have enough safeguards in place (like a restraining order really will keep a killer away?) to protect women.  Just on this board we were discussing a 12 year old who killed his step-mom-to-be.  He didn't want to kill her before the birth of the baby was apparent to him. 

Until we have an effective way to deal with these social sicknesses, I believe abortion needs to remain a legal and safe option.

Thank you ladies!

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Okay.  Then murder isn't an issue.  Thanks.  I'm gonna forget about it then.  Everything is sunny and bright.  Thank you again for enlightening me.

Are you seriously going to get snarky because your incorrect statistic was challenged?

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Okay.  Then murder isn't an issue.  Thanks.  I'm gonna forget about it then.  Everything is sunny and bright.  Thank you again for enlightening me.

Are you seriously going to get snarky because your incorrect statistic was challenged?

I'm not being snarky.  I will not post on the subject again.

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened



I'm not being snarky.  I will not post on the subject again.

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This would, in my opinion, make the procedure 'medically necessary' as we just don't have enough safeguards in place (like a restraining order really will keep a killer away?) to protect women.

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ORIGINAL: SultryItalian

Thanks, but I did take the past hour to read all 17 pages of this thread.