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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 6:22:43 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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OK, guys, refocus, please.....

Lots of predictions have been made. This isn't the thread for those.

Instead, this is the thread for what you will personally do to adjust to long term changes if the health care bill passes.

Thanks, and thanks to those who have already done so.

Top of page repeat of OP:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Personally, I'm still doubtful this bill will pass.

But if it does, some of you have dire predictions about what will happen. So assume it does pass.

Whenever I see conditions changing, I of course change direction. No point continuing to do what doesn't work. No point in complaining either; I switch to what will work so that I can rest reasonably assured my interests are covered and relatively secure.

So with these terrible changes you see---what are you going to do differently, specifically, to readjust your approaches to protect your interests and security? For example, are you retraining to get out of the health care industry? Saving thousands annually to create your own health "insurance"? Investing in hard assets in preparation for a fallen economy? Creating new businesses likely to hold up well even in tough times? And not just short term (cost cutting)--what about the long haul?

Talk is one thing. What are you doing about these changes?

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/19/2010 6:23:43 PM >

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 21

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 6:26:09 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

Well if the healthcare bill passes people are going to have to find something else to talk about, this will be a massive adjustment.

Some will go back to the weather but for others it will be the global warming conspiracy and how they are drowning in Mexican immigrants.

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 22

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 6:37:59 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Odd, because that sure wasn't how Obama felt about the folks at Caterpillar when he did a speech at their plant to push his stimulus plan, and had his photo op with the Caterpillar CEO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_o2qs6XQc

And Caterpillar is one of the best employers you can have, with a fantastic benefits package, but the best you can do is never enough for some people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

One prediction, plucked straight out of the headlines -
Caterpillar: Health care bill would cost it $100M

Anyone who thinks that Caterpillar isn't spewing propaganda for the sake of the right wing hasn't been paying attention.

Few companies have worked harder against health care reform, and fewer have been more closely tied to right-wing and corporate lobby groups. The company is one of the largest corporate contributors to the Republican party, but that's just the beginning.

Caterpillar was a leader in the fight against patients' rights legislation that would have created liability for HMOs that harm patients through negligence.

Ed Kaleta, who headed government affairs for Caterpillar Inc, is now the head Washington lobbyist for Humana, the fourth-largest for-profit private health insurer.

Donald V. Fites, a former CEO and chairman of Caterpillar, is a prominent member of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, a political committee devoted to increasing the number of Republicans in the Senate.

Some "prediction". If only Caterpillar would spend all those dollars and all that effort on health care for its employees, huh?

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(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 23

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:03:00 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

Not odd at all, and the facts on Caterpillar's involvement speak for themselves. Obama knew what he was doing (just as he did with the Fox interview), and it's interesting to note that as soon as Obama left, Caterpillar's CEO immediately contradicted him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Odd, because that sure wasn't how Obama felt about the folks at Caterpillar when he did a speech at their plant to push his stimulus plan, and had his photo op with the Caterpillar CEO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_o2qs6XQc

And Caterpillar is one of the best employers you can have, with a fantastic benefits package, but the best you can do is never enough for some people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

One prediction, plucked straight out of the headlines -
Caterpillar: Health care bill would cost it $100M

Anyone who thinks that Caterpillar isn't spewing propaganda for the sake of the right wing hasn't been paying attention.

Few companies have worked harder against health care reform, and fewer have been more closely tied to right-wing and corporate lobby groups. The company is one of the largest corporate contributors to the Republican party, but that's just the beginning.

Caterpillar was a leader in the fight against patients' rights legislation that would have created liability for HMOs that harm patients through negligence.

Ed Kaleta, who headed government affairs for Caterpillar Inc, is now the head Washington lobbyist for Humana, the fourth-largest for-profit private health insurer.

Donald V. Fites, a former CEO and chairman of Caterpillar, is a prominent member of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, a political committee devoted to increasing the number of Republicans in the Senate.

Some "prediction". If only Caterpillar would spend all those dollars and all that effort on health care for its employees, huh?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 24

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:11:41 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Yeah, okay. Caterpillar is an EVIL Republican corporation...

You probably believe that every notable company is an evil Republican mouthpiece, fighting to steal generic medicine and dog food dinners out of the mouths of the poorest of the poor elderly people. Its all an evil plot, isn't it, and conspiracies abound...

Its got to be true, doesn't it - because Moveon and HuffPo and DailyKOS tell you so!

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 25

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:18:34 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

yeah this from the man who believes that democrats are gonna deny republicans healthcare......booooogedy booooogedy booogedy
twit

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 26

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:29:11 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Yeah, okay. Caterpillar is an EVIL Republican corporation...

You probably believe that every notable company is an evil Republican mouthpiece, fighting to steal generic medicine and dog food dinners out of the mouths of the poorest of the poor elderly people. Its all an evil plot, isn't it, and conspiracies abound...

Its got to be true, doesn't it - because Moveon and HuffPo and DailyKOS tell you so!

If you don't understand what other people are saying, just ask them to dumb it down to your level. I'm sure most of us would be happy to oblige, and you could save yourself the embarrassment of having to make up and attack things they never even said.

Not that the rest of us don't get a giggle out of watching you, of course. But it does get a little painful to watch sometimes.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 27

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:29:37 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

No, what I said was Panda's NeoNazi "jokes" about denying Republicans health care, and murdering those who disagree with his political ideology were vile and tasteless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

yeah this from the man who believes that democrats are gonna deny republicans healthcare......booooogedy booooogedy booogedy
twit

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 28

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:31:22 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Let's try again. Ya wanna talk about Caterpillar, start a thread.

This thread is about what YOU will do. Unless you run Caterpillar, take it elsewhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OK, guys, refocus, please.....

Lots of predictions have been made. This isn't the thread for those.

Instead, this is the thread for what you will personally do to adjust to long term changes if the health care bill passes.

Thanks, and thanks to those who have already done so.

Top of page repeat of OP:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Personally, I'm still doubtful this bill will pass.

But if it does, some of you have dire predictions about what will happen. So assume it does pass.

Whenever I see conditions changing, I of course change direction. No point continuing to do what doesn't work. No point in complaining either; I switch to what will work so that I can rest reasonably assured my interests are covered and relatively secure.

So with these terrible changes you see---what are you going to do differently, specifically, to readjust your approaches to protect your interests and security? For example, are you retraining to get out of the health care industry? Saving thousands annually to create your own health "insurance"? Investing in hard assets in preparation for a fallen economy? Creating new businesses likely to hold up well even in tough times? And not just short term (cost cutting)--what about the long haul?

Talk is one thing. What are you doing about these changes?

Page one posters got us off to a good start until the end of the page. Let's get back on track, please.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/19/2010 7:33:59 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 29

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:38:30 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Yeah, okay. Caterpillar is an EVIL Republican corporation...

You probably believe that every notable company is an evil Republican mouthpiece, fighting to steal generic medicine and dog food dinners out of the mouths of the poorest of the poor elderly people. Its all an evil plot, isn't it, and conspiracies abound...

Its got to be true, doesn't it - because Moveon and HuffPo and DailyKOS tell you so!

You know, I keep telling these people and telling these people that the only reliable sources for news are Fox and the WSJ, and everything else that Rupert owns.

But they just won't listen to reason.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 30

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:40:10 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Sigh.

To start your own thread, click on New Post. It's easy.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 31

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:42:49 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Talk is one thing. What are you doing about these changes?

Not that it isn't a good question, but it does remind me of the (probably) apocryphal story about the man who saw, in the mid-30s, the direction the world political momentum was moving, and deduced that a cataclysmic global conflict was inevitable. He supposedly sold everything he owned and moved his family to a remote island, as far away as possible from any major power, to keep them safe.

He picked a tiny little dot on the map called Peleliu.

To answer the question, though, I'm not doing anything differently at the moment because I don't know what to prepare for. Like the man who moved his family to Peleliu, I know something big is coming, and that it will bring enormous changes. But unlike him, I recognize that I have no way of knowing exactly what those changes will be. Ideally, I won't still be living in the United States when the changes really kick in. Not sure yet whether that'll be practical for me, but if all goes well it won't be my problem.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 32

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:43:04 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Yeah, okay. Caterpillar is an EVIL Republican corporation...

You probably believe that every notable company is an evil Republican mouthpiece, fighting to steal generic medicine and dog food dinners out of the mouths of the poorest of the poor elderly people. Its all an evil plot, isn't it, and conspiracies abound...

Its got to be true, doesn't it - because Moveon and HuffPo and DailyKOS tell you so!

Nice try. I didn't quote any of those. I simply referred to facts about Caterpillar's track record, and I got back "You probably believe". I think people will notice that.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 33

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:47:04 PM

cuckoldmepls

Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline

I for one hope it passes. The sooner it passes, the sooner we get rid of half the democrats who voted for it. Then we can start modifying it or even nullify it. Most states other than welfare states such as California are going to opt out anyway.

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 34

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 7:51:42 PM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

You referred to things you pulled out of the crack of your ass about Caterpillar, not to a single verified fact. One thing that all you fringe radical leftists seem to have in common is your profound hatred for business. You lie about businesses, you pummel businesses, and you want nothing more than to tear business asunder. And then you become enraged and you riot when there are no jobs and no more government freebies, and you burn down what is left. And then you look around and see what you have wrought... and who do you blame that on? You blame it on business.

Life after Obamacare passes, if it passes? I don't think it will be pretty, but one thing I know that the majority is determined to throw the bums out of office who are imposing this monstrosity on us against our will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

Nice try. I didn't quote any of those. I simply referred to facts about Caterpillar's track record, and I got back "You probably believe". I think people will notice that.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/19/2010 8:10:38 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 35

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 8:07:20 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Talk is one thing. What are you doing about these changes?

Not that it isn't a good question, but it does remind me of the (probably) apocryphal story about the man who saw, in the mid-30s, the direction the world political momentum was moving, and deduced that a cataclysmic global conflict was inevitable. He supposedly sold everything he owned and moved his family to a remote island, as far away as possible from any major power, to keep them safe.

He picked a tiny little dot on the map called Peleliu.

To answer the question, though, I'm not doing anything differently at the moment because I don't know what to prepare for. Like the man who moved his family to Peleliu, I know something big is coming, and that it will bring enormous changes. But unlike him, I recognize that I have no way of knowing exactly what those changes will be. Ideally, I won't still be living in the United States when the changes really kick in. Not sure yet whether that'll be practical for me, but if all goes well it won't be my problem.

Kinda the point, though.

If we can't identify the problems or what to do about them, they're not so objective a threat.

Other people on page one gave good, solid, practical answers. They see specific issues and addressed them accordingly.

That's what I'm asking people.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 36

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 8:09:09 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sigh.

To start your own thread, click on New Post. It's easy.

Ok.

I'll step out of it.

But this schoolmarming you do on your threads does not promote discussion.

Even if that discussion is not what you had in mind, that's how conversations tend to flow sometimes.

Have at it though.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/19/2010 8:18:15 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 37

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 8:14:48 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

You're a funny guy, Sanity. I'm more of a radical centrist, and I run my own business, so take a pill and try to stop the tantrum. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you're unfairly tarring all business with the Caterpillar brush. As for the facts about Caterpillar, anyone can look all of them up, hun.

The company is one of the largest corporate contributors to the Republican party.

Caterpillar was a leader in the fight against patients' rights legislation that would have created liability for HMOs that harm patients through negligence.

Ed Kaleta, who headed government affairs for Caterpillar Inc, is now the head Washington lobbyist for Humana, the fourth-largest for-profit private health insurer.
Donald V. Fites, a former CEO and chairman of Caterpillar, is a prominent member of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, a political committee devoted to increasing the number of Republicans in the Senate.

Forgive me, Musicmystery. It needed correcting.

(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 38

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 10:55:16 PM

Fellow

Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

In Canada, it is MANDITORY that you accept either the company's (at a discount) recommended insuarance corporation (they come in and do their lil talk/speel..with new employees) or you PROVE (by showing an insurance card--benefits) with another company.

I do live in Canada. To my best knowledge a company here does not have to offer any health benefits. Some (esp. large companies) do offer extra (to government provided insurance) health insurance (esp. dental that is not covered by a government plan). Enrollment into the government program is mandatory. Some provinces have a monthly charge, some do not have it. British Columbia has $57 monthly charge for adults that can be waived if you make less than $20K a year. I am not sure about US companies doing business here, they may be required to offer health insurance.

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 39

RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/19/2010 11:30:16 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Let's get back on track, please.

I doubt it will help, Muse, but I really don't know that I'm going to be able to do much. Like a couple hundred million Americans, I'll likely just get swept along.

I wonder about something though. A few years ago, I quit my job for a very different one. It was a risk, with a pay cut to begin with. It was tight. I had a nasty note from my bank about insufficient funds a week before my first promotion. For six months, I didn't have any health insurance. If I had been subject to having my tax return confiscated to pay a fine over that, could I have still pulled it off? Will I be able to take the next crazy leap of faith the universe places into my path?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 40

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