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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:09:56 PM   
intenze


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Panda check your email?
(sorry for the derailing)
On topic: I already work for the government. I don't think I will be changing anything. I really do not think it will be that big of a sea change for most people.

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:13:48 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That does seem to be the consensus, doesn't it?

Most posters don't seem to be expecting much of a change, or any change they can point to specifically.


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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:20:23 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
there's just no way at all for anyone to accurately predict what's going to be happening 4 months from now, let alone 4 years. There are way too many interdependent variables, cascading over too long a period of time, to know how it's all going to settle out.



Completely correct in one sense, Panda, but utter poppycock in another.  We have a long and established history of how gov't entitlement programs work out.  They always cost far more than is ever suggested at this stage of the game and can be counted on to be loaded up with unanticipated (or obvious but ignored) consequences.

The administration has failed miserably in attempts to sell this monstrosity (which is probably getting worse by the minute as the backroom deals roll along) to the American people, and, if they should choose to ram it down our throats anyway, the Democrats will very shortly lose the ability to fix anything bigger than a parking ticket.


All of which has nothing to do with the original question, how do you prepare for the coming changes? Even if what you say is completely true, there's still no way to know at this point exactly how it's all going to shake out.


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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:21:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: intenze

Panda check your email?
(sorry for the derailing)
On topic: I already work for the government. I don't think I will be changing anything. I really do not think it will be that big of a sea change for most people.


Beat ya by 15 minutes!


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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:24:35 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You mean, other than higher taxes forcing more bankruptcies and plant closures and layoffs and the offshoring of more jobs, a severe belt tightening in the medical field, doctors retiring or moving along with other health care workers to countries with better pay and other incentives, fewer students opting to go into health care, a crashing economy, a loss of quality and quantity of health care just as baby boomers enter retirement en masse, and every other potential problem thats been pointed to?

No, not much.

(How's that thumb tasting? Pretty bland, is it?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That does seem to be the consensus, doesn't it?

Most posters don't seem to be expecting much of a change, or any change they can point to specifically.




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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:29:48 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The question is, what are your plans to adapt to this scenario?


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:32:54 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
How most people generally feel about "Life with a new health care bill":

quote:

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll


Saturday, March 20, 2010


The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -21. That matches the lowest Approval Index rating yet recorded for this President (see trends).


Each time the President leads a big push for his health care plan, his job approval ratings suffer. While some portions of the plan are popular, others are not. Most voters oppose the proposed Medicare savings and the taxes involved. As a result, most voters continue to oppose the legislation. Just 20% of voters believe that most Members of Congress will understand the proposed health care bill before they vote on it. From a political perspective, 50% are less likely to vote for a Member of Congress who supports the health care reform plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats.



Full polling report at http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll





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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:34:47 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		I have no idea, what I do know is that over the last 6 years my current employer based health care plan increased on average 29% per year to to the point of where it now costs us over $2400 per month for a family of 4, our co-pay has increased to over $100, the deductible has gone up to $4000 per year.  In the end insurance alone was the largest chunk taken out of the paycheck, it was about 40% of the salary before taxes and the rest are taken out. 

As of this month they stopped offering insurance, because the employer portion was getting to expensive and with the lousy economy they could not afford to offer it and stay open.  So they cut out health benefits and laid people off to stay in business.

Any change is better than the current system

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:40:19 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Merc and Will have discussed cutting employees and benefits, someone else mentioned diversifying their savings into international currencies and investments.

Myself, I moved all my 401K savings to CDs in anticipation that this legislation passes and the stock market goes into a nosedive, and I am being very conservative with my spending habits in anticipation of further economic trouble to come. Not just from this one bill, but on top it. There's also Obama's massive deficit spending, and there's cap and tax coming up, and so on.

Its a good time to be very cautious.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The question is, what are your plans to adapt to this scenario?




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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 12:57:20 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Panda, I have no way of knowing exactly how the sunrise will look tomorrow morning either, but I can be very confident that it will rise

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 1:06:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Panda, I have no way of knowing exactly how the sunrise will look tomorrow morning either, but I can be very confident that it will rise


I'm not disagreeing with you, but it doesn't tell us anything about what specific preparations to make.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 1:07:17 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What's the problem, Rich?

I've rejected nothing anyone has proposed here. I asked a question, people answered it.

Yup, off topic stuff is a hijack. Notice that even when a thread was started to address the hijack topic, he had no interest in it---just a bunch of childish personal attacks.

Meanwhile, I've let it slide and kept focus on the OP. Even people I often argue with have responded in good faith.

If you've got anything to add on the OP, great. Otherwise, move along.




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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 1:28:08 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What are you doing about these changes?


As small business owners, Firm and I are considering how not to grow our business to the point where we fall under the proposed rules, but still to continue to prosper.  The biggest consideration is how to shelter the income that we currently make.

Basically we're circling our proverbial financial wagons.

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 1:43:43 PM   
ModTwentyOne


Posts: 2504
Status: offline 		If you want to talk about something other than how your life will be under the new bill, feel free to start your own thread. 



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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:00:58 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
My owner has seen some potential issues with the new medicare tax on investment income(corporate structure, asset protection, and tax law are areas his specializes in) so he has been taking steps to stay ahead of that and protect his assets and investment income.

He has said if it makes more sense to pay fines per employee and let them get their own health insurance, that is what he will do. That is a decision to be made down the road when the exchanges open. He has already outsourced what he can at this point which was not related to the pending bill.

He and his investment partners are buying apartment buildings in the Midwest/Great plains again. Cash is king and lots of investors are in trouble and want out. Those who saw it coming are starting to pick very cautiously at the carcasses in the commercial market. Though he doesn't think we have seen the worst of it yet.

I'm still getting my doctorate in nursing, I'll still teach as an adjunct. I don't see myself ever going back into practice as an NP.

We won't be returning to CA either. We will be looking at the southeast as soon as his business here in the Windy City is complete.


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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:20:09 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Afternoon Tim,

I am still not convinced that this is going to pass, much less make it passed the court challenges that will be filed by a number of states. That being said, if we assume it makes it into law and stands up to the initial rounds of challenges, I will be saving up for my own legal defense. I have decided that as I am still in reasonably good health, and arguably of sound mind I will be testing the penalties of the individual mandates. Worst case scenario I wind up paying the fine (which is far less than what anual premiums total), and possibly end up spending a few nights in a Federal prison (as much as I hate the idea of a cage it may be the only way to preserve some of my freedoms).

I have come to the conclussion that this is the first step in the proverbial slippery slope, after listening to the President and other leaders in Congress, I actually belive them when they say this is just the first step towards fundamentally changing this country. If such mandates are found to be legal, where is the end to such regulation and mandates? No more disposable razors because of the effects on landfills? Only clothing made of silk, or hemp, or wool? Particular colors because certain dyes contain harmful elements? Limits on the ammount of beef, pork, lamb, fish that any of us eat because of the effects on insurance premiums?

Life with a new health care bill is going to be interesting if it gets to the point of me entering the legal system. I don't know what other effects these new laws are going to have on me or anybody else, but I am concerned where they can lead. Simpy put, I am preparing for the worst.

Live well my friend,
Thadius

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:33:32 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thadius,just my opinion here...but I think you are taking the proverbial slope argument just a little too far.As for myself,being currently disabled( and I will not become undisabled anytime soon...lol) I see absolutely no changes and no adjustments necessary.My son though just might be able to remain covered for a little longer post school.....granting him a little more time before he needs to assume that responsibility for himself.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:34:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I have come to the conclussion that this is the first step in the proverbial slippery slope, after listening to the President and other leaders in Congress, I actually belive them when they say this is just the first step towards fundamentally changing this country. If such mandates are found to be legal, where is the end to such regulation and mandates? No more disposable razors because of the effects on landfills? Only clothing made of silk, or hemp, or wool? Particular colors because certain dyes contain harmful elements? Limits on the ammount of beef, pork, lamb, fish that any of us eat because of the effects on insurance premiums?


Why would you expect any of those things to be even remotely possible, Thadius? This step toward a nationalized health system has been taken many times already, by every other developed country on the planet. How many of them regulate the fabric or the color of the clothes worn by their citizens? Since the answer to that is "none," why would you expect that to be the outcome here in the US?

Every country that's adopted national health care has their own personality, their own unique national identity, and in each case that national identity is reflected in the way that they administer their health care system - but in no case has the nationalization of health care significantly altered the country's collective personality. I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would expect that to happen here.


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:37:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
. I will pursue tax shelters far more vigorously than I have, and probably stay neutral or reduce my taxes. When I am able to I will move to a no income tax state.



Oh the horror that you will have to talk with someone like me...



Not sure what you mean by that.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Life with a new health care bill - 3/20/2010 2:44:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Eventually I'll be forced to cut out health insurance for my employees, pay the fine and send them off to the government program. I'll pay them the difference between what health care would cost me and the fine, so Obama has forced a portion of their income to be taxed. (So much for no taxes on the middle class). I will pursue tax shelters far more vigorously than I have, and probably stay neutral or reduce my taxes. When I am able to I will move to a no income tax state.


And of course, because you are a good employer, you will give your employees a raise equal to the money you were paying for insurance minus the fine...is that right?

You know just to help them out.

Butch



As any good employer knows, a happy employee is a productive employee. Its not "just to help them out", it helps the company out as well.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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