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When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 9:37:07 PM   
MonicaLeigh


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		I've been debating on wether or not to come here for advice..ive decided that i need a another man/Doms input on the current situation!
Ive been in a relationship with a Dom for 6 1/2 months and i am in love with him have been for quite awhile now. The feelings are mutual on his part as well. The problem is I'm the type of person that gives people the benefit of the doubt even if they were in the wrong, trust people more than i should, forgives people for pretty much anything and when i fall in love. I love hard and i work hard to make the relationshp work.

My Dom is pretty much the opposite, he forgives very little-he holds things agianst you that have been over with for weeks maybe even months. He takes the benefit of the doubt instead of giving it, and he doesnt trust people enough.

I explained all of that to ask this question, Since im the submissive (But by no means a doormat) is it right for me to give respect but not always get it in return? To sit around and wait on his Phone call (like he requested of me) and then he never calls or either he calls 2 hours after the time frame he gave me (Never even sent a simple text saying he would be late)? For him to tell me he understands my point of view but then repeat the same patterns over and over on a daily basis? Always having to be right even when he was wrong and expecting me to take responsability for his actions as well as my own?

When is enough enough? What i do when even after voiceing my opinion as politely as possibly, it gets me nowhere? How do i find a happy medium with someone who believes he is the "happy Medium" ?

I know these all sound like question i should probably be able to answer myself, but i wanted to see it from another mans stand point. I wanted to find out if the rest of you doms Also have the mindset. That being a man means ALWAYS being right.

Am i not right that By being a Dom "You set the standard that you expect your sub/love to follow? And if you yourself cannot live up to your own standards Does is still give you the right to have such expectations of your girl?

This was hard for me to post considering the fact that i truly love my Dom and i have no doubt that when he says the three words " i love you" to me, that they are sincere. I do however think that things are headed in an unhealthy direction.

Please do not take this as me saying that i do everything right and he does it all wrong, because that would be untruthful. i do mess up and am not ahsamed in the least to admitt it and never will be. Ive made my mistakes and this isnt suppose to look like "Bash My Dom on collarme.com" Im just looking for tips on whats worth making a big deal over and what things are just not worth the hassle..

I'd love to hear from anyone who has some helpful advice, And To all of you who take the time to post, Thank you

Monica,Leigh
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 9:42:53 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Let me see if I can summarize your question...

A Dom can readily inform his sub that he wants her to change an undesirable behavior.  What does a sub do in the same situation?  What recourse does she have when she wants him to change and he won't?


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 9:49:43 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Not a Master, but i hope my words are helpful perhaps.

Honestly, everything you mention here would be deal breakers for me, and i wouldn't be able to accept Ownership from a man with the behaviors you describe - especially the lack of control and personal responsibility for them.

If he can't control the little things in his life, how can i trust him to control the big ones? Like me?

Trust is amazingly important to me - and it is established more by actions, then by words. If i'm unable to trust him to keep his word, then there isn't much trust at all, is there?

He has to be in control of his own life before he can be in control of mine. Not perfect, mind you, everyone's human, of course, and we all make mistakes. But in general i need for him to hold himself to a standard just as high as the one he holds to me. And honestly, most of the Owners i speak with talk about how owning a slave makes them even more responsible in their lives - not less - because of the pride in taking responsibility for her, and the power and the overall sense of being in control that comes with it.

My advice, if it's helpful to you, is that only you can decide ultimately if this is good for you - and if you love him, you very well could accept him as he is and his love for you, and realize that this is just a trait to work with. Just decide if you can be happy with him exactly as he is, without hoping for some sort of "change" on his part in the future - and then hopefully you will have your answer.

My best to you - good luck!

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 9:51:08 PM   
MonicaLeigh


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry i know all of that was a bit confusing because i had so many questions all tied into one .
I Guess in s sense thats what im asking, Knowing that ive done all i can in explaining my feelings and trying to get him to see my point of view (while at the same time realizing that i cant change another person) When and how do draw the line and start worrying about my emotions and my wellbeing without losing the man i love?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 10:01:42 PM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		If he's hurting you. (emotionaly abusive?)
If he does not respect you.
If there is a double standard.
If he's frustratingly inconsistent.
Not showing the love he says he has.
If your unhappy.
If you feel the whole thing is getting worse and is unhealthy.

Then love may not be enough. BUT, love is a lot so keep talking to him. Just know when to say when.

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 10:01:46 PM   
MonicaLeigh


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		Yes thats very helpful.. thank you.. and yes your right int he end i have to decide wether or not i can accept the way things are going to be or wether its going to constantly burden my emotions..and with saying all this. i relaize that i have to stop taking on his problems for him because by doing so im enabling him and pretty much saying go ahead.. put the blame on me, ill take.. i guess the more i put up with it and keep allowing the cycle to repeat itself probably isnto much help to the situation either.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/20/2010 11:28:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Only you can decide when enough is enough, and you already know that. There is nothing more annoying than someone being late to me. yet my partner is and always has been late for everything (except for work most of the time). We have tried to discuss it and no, it hasn't changed. What I have done is if he gives a time to come over and I know that he will out prior to it, I don't get to his house on time. We don't schedule phone calls though, so obviously that won't really work.

It doesn't sound like this is an "all the time" kind of thing, but I can really understand how annoying it can be. Just because he is "Mr. Domly Dom" doesn't mean that he can be disrespectful of you or your feelings on a daily basis. I know you have probably tried to talk to him about this until you are blue in the face. Personally, as far as the phone calls go, he is not within 15 minutes of the time frame, I would tell him that I'm sorry but I can't talk because I'm in the middle of something. If these phone calls are taking place in the evening and you are waiting up, just go to sleep and turn off the ringer on your phone. If he says something, simply tell him that when he didn't call within the time frame, you were tired and needed to get to sleep.

It's hard to make a person like that understand that if he would simply send a quick text telling you he is running late, there wouldn't be a problem.

As for him thinking he is the "happy medium," you have tried being polite, and it hasn't worked. Perhaps you need to voice your opinion a little stronger. I'm not one for ultimatums, but at the same time, you do need to explain that as much as you love him this is really becoming a big enough problem that you aren't sure you can continue the relationship if you can't come to a "meeting of the minds." That isn't an ultimatum, per se, simply letting him know that the problem is serious enough that it is damaging the relationship enough that it make break it completely without a compromise.

I wish you luck.

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 1:05:32 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		One of the things a girl tends to seek from a Dom/Master is structure and stability.... One of the ways this happens is trust that what He says happens, happens... if He says there will be consequences for a certain action.... there are consequences for that action. It isn't just shrugged off. But part of that is that trust extends elsewhere.... If I tell My girl to expect a call at a set time, there will be a call within 10-15 mins either side of the time I stated. If I tell her I'll meet her at a certain place at a certain time she knows I will be there within 10-15 of that time. she knows and has learned to trust in the fact that things I say will happen, do happen and it would take something like being hit by a stray bus to make it otherwise.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 2:12:26 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		If respect and trust have been earned, they deserve to be given, and in any relationship, regardless of kinkiness, they're hugely important.

Take yourself out of the equation....if your friend was seeing a man who didn't respect or trust her, and showed no sign of wanting to do so, what would you say to her?

What I'd suggest is to keep talking through his trust issues, help him see that his consistency, trustworthiness and level of respect for you is the top priority. You're putting your physical and mental health in his hands. If he isn't in control of his own mental health, he has no hope of being successfully in control of yours.

I'd echo what someone else says, love isn't always enough. Fight for him if you think he's worth it, and has a chance of getting better. If not...

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 2:51:13 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello!

I've read my reply through, and though it seems pretty snippy it's not intended to be, but it is my immediate reaction on reading your post, it's not my intention to belittle or patronise you - You've done a courageous thing posting here, and you deserve a big ole hug...


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonicaLeigh
Ive been in a relationship with a Dom for 6 1/2 months and i am in love with him have been for quite awhile now. The feelings are mutual on his part


I don't get the impression from the behaviour you describe later that his feelings are in any sense mutual...

quote:



The problem is I'm the type of person that gives people the benefit of the doubt even if they were in the wrong, trust people more than i should, forgives people for pretty much anything and when i fall in love. I love hard and i work hard to make the relationshp work.


You sound like a loving, caring, empathetic human been!

quote:


My Dom is pretty much the opposite, he forgives very little-he holds things agianst you that have been over with for weeks maybe even months. He takes the benefit of the doubt instead of giving it, and he doesnt trust people enough.


Honestly... he sounds like a bit of a jackass.

quote:


I explained all of that to ask this question, Since im the submissive (But by no means a doormat) is it right for me to give respect but not always get it in return?


From my perspective - no, never ever! You've as much right to respect as your partner has.

quote:


To sit around and wait on his Phone call (like he requested of me) and then he never calls or either he calls 2 hours after the time frame he gave me (Never even sent a simple text saying he would be late)?


Do you think he is deliberately doing this as an expression of control, or is it because he can't be bothered?


quote:


For him to tell me he understands my point of view but then repeat the same patterns over and over on a daily basis?

That's classic jackass behaviour

quote:


Always having to be right even when he was wrong and expecting me to take responsability for his actions as well as my own?


Crikey! Wouldn't you prefer a man strong enough to admit when he's wrong> This chap is sounding like a pathetic little weakling?

quote:


When is enough enough?

I suspect that "when" is close - since you're starting to question things..

quote:


What i do when even after voiceing my opinion as politely as possibly, it gets me nowhere?

You end this relationship and find a good, honest, caring dom - They do exist and you sound like just the sorta lady a good honest, caring, dom would love to hang out with.

quote:


How do i find a happy medium with someone who believes he is the "happy Medium" ?

It doesn't matter a flying crap what he believes - it matters that you believe he's the "happy Medium" -
quote:


I know these all sound like question i should probably be able to answer myself, but i wanted to see it from another mans stand point. I wanted to find out if the rest of you doms Also have the mindset. That being a man means ALWAYS being right.


I think there are defintely other doms who behave in the way you describe, and while I personally think they're pathetic they're as entitled as anyone to find a partner. And there are subs who are looking for just this kind of dom and that's ok too... And I'm delighted when they hook up and form great relationships - because it's no loss to me as I would have no interest whatsoever in the kind of sub who wanted that kind of treatment (which in my very subjective view borders on abuse).

quote:


Am i not right that By being a Dom "You set the standard that you expect your sub/love to follow? And if you yourself cannot live up to your own standards Does is still give you the right to have such expectations of your girl?


Well... I'd be careful making any statement that seeks to define what traits a good dom should have (that way lies madness!)... but personally, I do believe that if you can't live up to your own standards you can't expect anyone else to.

quote:


This was hard for me to post considering the fact that i truly love my Dom and i have no doubt that when he says the three words " i love you" to me, that they are sincere. I do however think that things are headed in an unhealthy direction.


I don't doubt your sincerity, but I can't help doubting his. Could it be that he doesn't love you (how could he love you if he didn't respect you?) but loves the fact that you put all the effort in and put up with his crap?

quote:


Please do not take this as me saying that i do everything right and he does it all wrong, because that would be untruthful. i do mess up and am not ahsamed in the least to admitt it and never will be. Ive made my mistakes and this isnt suppose to look like "Bash My Dom on collarme.com" Im just looking for tips on whats worth making a big deal over and what things are just not worth the hassle..

I'd love to hear from anyone who has some helpful advice, And To all of you who take the time to post, Thank you

Monica,Leigh


Good luck!

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 3:53:18 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Actions speak louder than words.
He says he loves you. He doesn't support that with his actions.

_____________________________



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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 4:37:55 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MonicaLeigh

My Dom is pretty much the opposite, he forgives very little-he holds things agianst you that have been over with for weeks maybe even months. He takes the benefit of the doubt instead of giving it, and he doesnt trust people enough.



Seems you have a stark choice....

Be satisfied with a man who can't leave the past in the past - and can't forgive and forget - which should make for an antagonistic relationship.

Or ask him to change.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 4:56:09 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

When is enough enough?


when you feel unhappy
If he is not changing..and you are not happy...move on

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~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 5:45:23 AM   
DickSteel


Posts: 148
Joined: 3/20/2010
From: Man of Mystery & Intrigue
Status: offline 		When? Right now is always a good time. Perhaps you should take a minute to imagine that you "draw that line" right now. If you or he fall on the other side of that line, then you already know the answers to all your questions.

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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 6:09:27 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I wouldn't put up with that. I have no respect for people who don't keep their word. About everything. Yes, emergencies happen but you can always send a quick text to explain you can't talk this morning.

You teach people how to treat you by what you put up with. As long as you sit around for three hours hoping he will call, he'll continue to do this. Give him 15 minutes and then go about your business. And refuse punishment because if he said be there to talk at 8, that meant 8 and not 10.

But next time, because you sound too fed up to trust him again, next time make it clear during the beginning conversations that you will not stay with a man who doesn't keep his word. And if the guy does this during the beginning dating, don't continue talking to him. Having told him you won't stay with a liar, you have to be a woman of your word and not stay.



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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 6:12:31 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		just thinking uploud

doesn't the word "enough" say enough?

when it pops up in your mind...you know the time is there

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~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

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RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 7:58:57 AM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		In my experience there are two common mistakes the poster may be making.  Both are very common in the vanilla world as much as the Kinky world.

1.  To think that love and sexual compatibility is enough.  No.  You need a lot more in common than love and sex.   I think she may not be psychology compatibility with this dom.

2.   To confuse lust for love.   Just because someone gives you what you need sexually does NOT mean you love them.   Nor does it mean they love you.   The easiest way to see this is via teen age girls.   If you've ever had a teenage daughter, you quickly realize that no, she is not falling in love with all her boyfriends, no matter what she says or thinks.   She has however been conditioned by our culture (parent play a major role in this), that lust is not acceptable.  So when she meets  a boy she wants to screw like bunnies, she thinks she must loves him.   She is a good girl after all, and good girls don't get horny.   Note, this happens with men too, but not as obviously.    One sign of 'lust not love' is that they annoy the crap out of you except when actually engaging in sexual activities.

Monica I don't know you well enough to tell you that you don't love him.   Maybe you do.  But even if you do love him, you clearly are NOT compatible with him. 

The personality traits you describe are strong, well defined, and inherent to his personality.  Without extreme trauma, he will NEVER change.

My advice to you is to not try to change him.  If you can put up with them, fine, but I don't think you can.  Your description appears to me to be o a dead relationship.   I would leave him.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 1:48:23 PM   
MonicaLeigh


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		thank you all for your advice, I guess now i just have to make a decision.. is just loving him inspite of how he acts, Enough for me. Honestly i can tell you with my personality type, In the long hual if nothing changes NO it will not be enough. I guess thats the problem, i need to quit hoping he will change and start looking at it from a different stand point- this is how he is with no hopes of a change (considering we are in the same spot we were six months ago ) and make up my mind when enough is enough.. all of you are right, in the end noone can make that desicion for me!

(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 2:07:34 PM   
MonicaLeigh


Posts: 15
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		i have one other question that pertains to this whole situation, in the beginning stages of our relationship i made alot of mistakes and fucked up pretty bad for the first two months.

I finally made the desicion that the things i was doing were not important enough to me to lose the man i was in love with. So i pretty much took a 360 turn for the better.

Ive appologized for what i put him through numerous times and also made a huge turn around (actions speak louder than words) and i feel like he thinks since i screwed up that it gives him a "free all acsess pass" to do anything he wants in this relationship.

Sometimes when i confront a situation, he will remind me of what i did,

But i remind him that the difference between me and him is i made a change when i saw where things were headed, and he on the other hand is still doing the same stuff and sees no wrong in any of it.


In my mind its wrong for someone to hold somthing that happened months ago against them to this day, Maybe thats just because i dont believe in grudges and i forgive more than i should. I dont know.

Im just asking if my past mistakes "that i am not repeating" should be his excuse for his behavior that he is still continuing?

(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: When is enough enough? - 3/21/2010 2:56:36 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		This guy sounds like an insecure jerk. Why are you with someone who disrespects you?

Sounds like the point of diminishing returns has been reached. Cut your losses now, while there's not much damage done.

Six to nine months is when the honeymoon period starts to wear off, and you begin to see who you are really with, instead of who you wish he were. See him, now. Is he good enough for you? People with low self-esteem will settle for an insecure jerk.

Look in the mirror. Do you like what you see? If you deserve more than what you're getting, then act like it. Change it up, now. You are the author of your own life. When you were a little girl, did you imagine yourself growing up and getting with an insecure jerk, who runs roughshod over you? Of course not, right? So, don't be a passive player in the story of your life. Remember, YOU are the author. Write yourself a happy life. A positive, uplifting story of hope. Of feeling worthy of love, and of giving your love to someone who is worthy of it.

Six months or so is a relatively easy time to cut your losses, before they run deeper. You're not getting any younger, and you won't get this time back. A love like yours is really something special, and shouldn't be wasted on some average jerk. Don't you feel like you're really something special? If not, then do what you need to do to raise up your self-esteem, so that you feel worthy of being truly loved and appreciated. Don't waste your youth. It sets the stage for the rest of your life. YOU set the stage.


Don't wait. Change it now. Make a plan of action, and follow through on it. Don't sit and passively wait for a last straw- a bad incident that will lead to a bad ending for this chapter of your life. Cut your losses by controlling what you can, about how this chapter ends. If you do this, you can have a relatively smooth transition to the next chapter. You can't control him, but you can control your own thoughts, feelings and actions. So focus on that. Be proactive- not reactive. Its your story. Own it. Feel your great power!

You GO, girl!


Edited to answer your question above: Using your past behavior to justify his current bad behavior is a thin excuse. If you were dishonest, or something like that- where the level of trust between you is involved- then him holding that over your head is no way to foster new trust. Its a dead end. If that's the case, all the good in the world that you do to foster trust now may be wasted on him. You can't make him trust you. As stated above: you can control your own thoughts, feelings and deeds. Not his. Stop letting him jerk you around like a cat toy. Learn from this experience, and move forward.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 3/21/2010 3:24:37 PM >

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(in reply to MonicaLeigh)
Profile   Post #: 20
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