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knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 11:18:04 AM   
wisdomtogive


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Joined: 11/13/2009
Status: offline 		Reading through a few threads these past few days, some questions came to mind. Instead of hijacking anyone's thread I decided to start another. Please keep in mine I am not asking for myself, nor do I use this type of dynamic. I am also not saying this is a 'bad' thing, or making any judgments against those who need this certain dynamic.

There seems to be a need for those who are knights-in shinning armour..the saviors of our world. This I see in all walks of life, but will keep it here in Dom and submissive dynamics. There seems to be some doms who feel the need to keep saving their submissive from their past problems that have been plaguing them. They help the submissive to work through old issues, not once but repeatedly. When the submissive runs into strife, stemming from past traumas, they begin to act out, looking towards their dom to usher them back into present time. It appears this works for  both of them.

With that being said, I too in the past displayed this type of interaction. Though not in a D/s dynamic, i did learn quickly that late husband was not going to save me. His instructions were given once, and it was up to me to stand back up. Looking back, this type of interaction saved me when he died.  i knew that i could pick myself back up.

I am well aware within me is, what I refer too, the archetype of the damsel. She is always with me, and when I feel I need to be saved, I am aware she is the one mastering me. In this archetype, for me, lies my ruins. If i go towards that knight in shinning armour, he will kill my spirit. i know this, because the dynamic between us, will leave me totally helpless in picking up myself. i would have to search for another to do so, if he would end the relationship. This is why i consciously gravitate towards those who refuse to be anyone's knight.

If you are submissive does this damsel archetype concern you? Do you ever think that you need to heal yourself, and let go of your demons? Does holding on to the past rob your present time relationship? Is being stuck in trauma from the past now your ticket to not take responsibility for your actions?

At one time I would had to answer yes to all of those. I am grateful my late husband would not permit this destruction. That is me though, so if this doesn't speak to you, how is this serving your relationship? How are you getting stronger and healthier?

If you are a dominant who is the knight in shinning armour archetype, do you feel that saving the submissive all the time is going to help her/him in the long run? Have you taught her/him, to not repeat patterns, but to heal from them? If you do not see this as necessary why? If you had to go away for a month, does your submissive know how to handle their own damsel in distress syndromes, or will they fall apart without your total interaction. Do you give breeding ground for them to use their past as an excuse for their behavior? Sometimes a breeding ground can simply be constantly reeling her/him back in through whatever you feel is appropriate,

Finally if you became healthy , submissive and doms, and having a relationship where you do not need to be saved or save someone, do you think you can still be a dom or sub? Does it worry you that to not need to be saved will take away from your dynamic?
 
Thank you for reading this thread, and i do hope your realize i am not disrespecting anyone here, just posing some questions.
 
wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 12:05:39 PM   
osf


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Status: offline 		I'm more the pimp in a white suite and broad brimmed hat type


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< Message edited by osf -- 3/23/2010 12:06:16 PM >

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 12:08:51 PM   
Smutmonger


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Status: offline 		My experiences with this sort of women in the past have lead me to believe that the "Damsel" is usually a nuerotic. Everything in her life is or was bad-if you let her drop into that mode. Everyone who refuses to let her linger there is also classed as "the evil ones."

Suggest that she needs to get over herself?  Prepare for a dramatic explosion of denial. Somewhere along the line, I lost the horse and armor. I know what to expect if I hook up with someone who simply cannot deal with her own baggage and issues-trouble.

The only solution I can see is two fold for this.

One. She needs to come to terms with the pattern of her own attitudes being self sabotoging.

Two. If she does take on someone to help break the pattern-she had best cultivate the humility to both listen and act-rather than self-indulgently wallowing in her own shit and denial.

Or the patterns will repeat-constant rejection.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 12:14:51 PM   
lally2


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Status: offline 		to be honest, i would hate to be that much of a burden on anyone.  if i really was that much work id feel embarrassed and awkward that so much focus was being put onto me rather than the growth and speculation of the relationship.

some might look at my life and think 'whoa! - that needs sorting out' and maybe it does, to some extent or another. i dont live to a particular standard of organisation that some might construe as downright disorganised.  but i dont hope or require that anyone roll up their sleeves and get it sorted to their standard, though i can accept to some degree or another that might happen for their comfort rather more than my own.

neither do i require to be rescued, its up to me to change things - and again, up to a point there are things that need changing and i can easily get bogged down by the petty tyranny of conformity.

if anything i would say that i have no use for reality - and that bothers some people and some feel i need to be rescued from that, my brother most especially.  but i see no need for reality in my world, so long as everything ticks along fine and the bills get paid.  when reality hits i tend to not cope too well - so again that is an area that some might feel i need help with.

so whilst i am a complex and slightly peculiar person  - i have no requirement to be rescued from that - others might think so and quite often do.  but i feel thats because they just cant fathom how anyone can live in a world like mine.  its easy actually and fun and most of the time im really happy.

the thing is i saw my mother fall on her face, flat down crashed when my father stepped away from her and moved to New Zealand - i was about 11 and i swore then that i would never ever need someone that much.  but the trouble with that is that you then become the absolute opposite of helpless damsel, even if, by some peoples reckoning thats exactly what you are - you become an independent island complete with drawbridge and battlements - so if there is a knight after rescuing you, its asking alot for them to break through and when they do theres a chance theyll find a fragile mush.  fragile mush usually at that point runs away.

i think a happy medium personally - still working on it.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 12:19:12 PM   
HisSweetElysium


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Status: offline 		*left wondering if my post led to this in some degree* if not, I won't waste my breath explaining myself.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 12:20:39 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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Status: offline 		When I was younger, I use to be the Damsel in Shining Armor...lol. Always trying to save the knights who had fallen. It took me a few years to realize that I was doing both of us a major disservice by trying to rescue them. In my opinion, they needed to learn to rescue themselves and rediscover that inner strength that I'd like to think we all possess.

Once in a while, even now, I find myself trying to rescue someone, but once I see I'm doing that, I stop myself. It may seem harsh to the distressed, but in my opinion, it is 'tough love' and as you noted in your case, it helped you understand that you could move forward, all on your own.

I would much prefer to have someone submit to me from a place of inner strength than from a need to be saved. I honestly think that by avoiding playing into that dynamic a submissive is still fully capable of submitting; and in my opinion, if one does feed off that dynamic, it can cause unhealthy self-esteem issues (unless they are just role-playing).

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:02:08 PM   
wisdomtogive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisSweetElysium

*left wondering if my post led to this in some degree* if not, I won't waste my breath explaining myself.


Just a broad stroke, not in particular. Been a lot of broad strokes lately with my clients,  as well as things written here.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:05:50 PM   
wisdomtogive


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Status: offline 		<quote>Once in a while, even now, I find myself trying to rescue someone, but once I see I'm doing that, I stop myself. It may seem harsh to the distressed, but in my opinion, it is 'tough love' and as you noted in your case, it helped you understand that you could move forward, all on your own. </quote>


Yes, i have to watch that now in me as well. Working with so many people who have these type of issues, and then them wanting me to save them, takes a lot out of a person. Sometimes, though i have to remind myself you are not a pipe pipper, stop saving the world:). That actually was a comment that late hubby told me, and i use to this day.





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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:07:16 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I do almost everything for the ones I care for. MY patience has hardly limits with them..aslong as they are willing to use the advise they ask for.
If they don't use it. They are on their own.
Yes...not a knight in a white armour...just a friend helping a friend..but not stupid to endlesly help the ones who don't want to be helped

Once I put way to much time in someone. Trying to safe her.
But if you do it to often they get to dependend. They don't learn and you get the shit..they should have.
SO...now I help...but from a healthy distance.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 3/23/2010 1:14:10 PM >

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:12:18 PM   
wisdomtogive


Posts: 636
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Status: offline 		I am not sure that i would go as far as stating the damsel as neurotic, Smutmonger. I see it more as an archetype and not a psychological disorder.

We all have archetypes, which imho are all useful to us. Many could call me neurotic too for the things that i do during a day in my life. As with lally, many might want to teach me what reality is, poor fools to even try. I am though very aware of who and what i am, and if someone, like Sir, tells me i need to improve something with me, be sure i will work hard at it. For instance, Sir doesn't believe i am aware of my true worth, in the work that i do. He's right, so He is not patting me on the head, instead he is giving me certain steps that must be applied. He is making me go past my fears of accepting that i am and can be a success and just do it..panic..yes, but i know He has my best interest in hand.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:26:33 PM   
HisSweetElysium


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696


If they don't use it. They are on their own.
Yes...not a knight in a white armour...just a friend helping a friend..but not stupid to endlesly help the ones who don't want to be helped


SO...now I help...but from a healthy distance.

*running through to smootch justme* yes you do

but if you were a knight you would be one in black metal :P


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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:29:02 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		as a friend of mine...I would polish my black metal armour for you..to make it shine a little more whitish :P

well...perhaps you can do the polishing...you are a subby afther all :P

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:31:33 PM   
HisSweetElysium


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Status: offline 		LOL aww you are the sweetest, I don't know if I have enough elbow grease in my to polish your black metal white though.... ;)

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:36:15 PM   
hermione83


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Status: offline 		I need one of those (Knight in shining armour).

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:39:30 PM   
wisdomtogive


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Status: offline 		Justme thanks for responding. If you don't mind, may i ask you why you keep a healthy distance? Is helping those close to you so draining that you feel like you are going down the void/hole, and feeling exhausted? Just curious.

Thank you,
wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:41:40 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Beeing carefull...I guess.
I hardly have any limits with friends...but I know you can easily get dragged into it...making it your problem not theirs.
If I notice they really want the help and use it..I step some closer.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:50:01 PM   
wisdomtogive


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Status: offline 		Thank you for answering Justme
I honestly believe the knight is an archetype as well. As with me having the damsel, i believe it is a part of us, though we can live with it in healthy ways. Many times I have wondered what would have been if late hubby was a knight. In many ways he was, he didnt save me, but directed me on how to save myself. Just in that, i seen another use of the knight that for this damsel proved very beneficial. 

Please do keep in mind i am knocking any one who lives in these archetypes, just wanting to bring some awareness to myself on them. Thanks again for responding.

Edited to add: this awareness is for me to realize you don't need to be a damsel to be a slave, which is still a question in my mind.

< Message edited by wisdomtogive -- 3/23/2010 1:51:43 PM >

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:52:01 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I do think some people come here..for help..and offer themselfs in exchange for that help.
People do weird things for attention/help...but tha is an other discussion..I think

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 1:54:57 PM   
wisdomtogive


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Status: offline 		I think that is good Justme and commend you on that.

As i edited, because i forget to add it..duh..my thing with this damsel and knight now, is can me being a slave not resort to being the damsel. Does damsel and slave entertwine..

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 2:49:55 PM   
Justme696


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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Every one has some problems sooner or later. IF solving your problems is not the main reason to be in a relation..lol..you are not a damsel.


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