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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:18:39 PM

Smutmonger

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Putting off your personal accountability onto others is both nuerotic and self defeating. You cannot be two years old indefinitely. Even if you have a pervy guy who likes to change your diapers. You have to leave the house some day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

I am not sure that i would go as far as stating the damsel as neurotic, Smutmonger. I see it more as an archetype and not a psychological disorder.

We all have archetypes, which imho are all useful to us. Many could call me neurotic too for the things that i do during a day in my life. As with lally, many might want to teach me what reality is, poor fools to even try. I am though very aware of who and what i am, and if someone, like Sir, tells me i need to improve something with me, be sure i will work hard at it. For instance, Sir doesn't believe i am aware of my true worth, in the work that i do. He's right, so He is not patting me on the head, instead he is giving me certain steps that must be applied. He is making me go past my fears of accepting that i am and can be a success and just do it..panic..yes, but i know He has my best interest in hand.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:25:45 PM

littlewonder

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I was with a dom in the past who was a rescuer. He felt that he needed to save women, they somehow were too weak to do anything for themselves. Once he felt they were saved he got bored and needed to find another to fix. This led to our end and the end of multiple relationships for him.

I personally have no desire for someone to fix, save or rescue me. I want to be able to stand on my own two feet so that I can actually serve him within a full healthy capacity. That's not to say it's nice when there's someone to help from time to time and give you that nudge when you need it.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:29:36 PM

wisdomtogive

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As i have stated smutmonger, i do not see it as neurotic behavior. Is it something that i would want to live with daily, nope, but that is me and my choice. Can i see it being harmful? It would be in my case, but i am not like everyone and vice versa. The men i have been with could not harbor that kind of behavior, and because of my personality, i would not want to bring it to them. It would have ended my relationship(s). Also, as i stated, without that tough love guidance, when i was left a widow, i would not known how to take care of myself. So for me, not having a knight was a major plus.

p.s. a knight needs a damsel and vice versa. It just what is. to call them neurotic, if it works for them, sounds neurotic to me.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:33:38 PM

wisdomtogive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Every one has some problems sooner or later. IF solving your problems is not the main reason to be in a relation..lol..you are not a damsel.

Yay, that sure is not why i am here. i crave to make His life a lot easier and happier. lol..i am too old to be saved anyways:)

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:41:23 PM

Smutmonger

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If the "damsels" reacted well to "tough love"..they would not be in such a sorry state. I'm taking about professional victims here-it's an negative attention seeking dynamic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

As i have stated smutmonger, i do not see it as neurotic behavior. Is it something that i would want to live with daily, nope, but that is me and my choice. Can i see it being harmful? It would be in my case, but i am not like everyone and vice versa. The men i have been with could not harbor that kind of behavior, and because of my personality, i would not want to bring it to them. It would have ended my relationship(s). Also, as i stated, without that tough love guidance, when i was left a widow, i would not known how to take care of myself. So for me, not having a knight was a major plus.

p.s. a knight needs a damsel and vice versa. It just what is. to call them neurotic, if it works for them, sounds neurotic to me.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 3:41:50 PM

wisdomtogive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I was with a dom in the past who was a rescuer. He felt that he needed to save women, they somehow were too weak to do anything for themselves. Once he felt they were saved he got bored and needed to find another to fix. This led to our end and the end of multiple relationships for him. Sometimes i wonder if the road to self-healing is escaped because if they got better the knight would not need them any more, or vice versa?

I personally have no desire for someone to fix, save or rescue me. I want to be able to stand on my own two feet so that I can actually serve him within a full healthy capacity. That's not to say it's nice when there's someone to help from time to time and give you that nudge when you need it.

Thank you littlewonder for responding. I do like what you wrote that i marked in red.

wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 6:05:23 PM

Elisabella

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-FR-

I've known my fair share of knight-guys, and I have a tendency to be a 'damsel' when things get stressful...I agree with whoever characterized these as 'archetypes' - something I definitely believe the self contains many of.

I wouldn't recommend it as a lifestyle but sometimes there is just something so amazing when everything goes wrong and someone just swoops in and takes care of it. The downside of that is when the guy is just a friend, who doesn't want to be just a friend...but if there is an attraction there, the combination of female vulnerability and male rescuer is an incredibly powerful one, and can be very passionate.

One thing I've found...with some guys like this, the more I tell them "I don't need you to fix it" the more they want to fix it. It's strange. I really do think a lot of men have a very strong desire to be in that position of power as the 'provider' and that it really strokes their ego something nice. Not that they're 'knights' necessarily but just that they like to show off.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 7:48:48 PM

KneelforAnne

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I like the IDEA of being a damsel, but I’m not quite sure I could manage it. I think it would be nice to have someone strong to lean on from time to time, but I think he should equally enjoy leaning on someone soft. A give and take?

No one takes care of me-- I pay my own bills and wipe my own nose-- but I think it would be nice to have a man that WANTED to take care of me, shelter me, and all of those things. Not because I couldn’t do them for myself, but simply because he wanted to. That would leave me free to focus my attention fully on him and his/our needs.

Perhaps I have a different idea than most of you?

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 9:07:40 PM

wisdomtogive

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Elisabella
Thank you for replying. Yes, i was the one who brought the damsel and knight into the op as archetypes. I am very big on archetypes and tend to see them as guiding posts in my life.

I do not relate vulnerability though with being a damsel. I think we all have a degree of vulnerability and to me it is a good thing. Nothing is better then having someone to hug you, listen to you and at times advice you as well. If there was I would be out of a job:).

To me though it is the constant relying on someone to pick you up and dusting you off, when you fall or even just having a bad hair day.

When i gave thought about being a slave, one of my biggest concerns was would i have to be a damsel? Since this is a major archetype for me, it concerned me a lot. I have found though that the doms i have been with did not appreciate a damsel, nor did i gravitate to knights. Sir for sure is not a knight, though he does help many submissives with their problems. He does have healthy boundaries, and is able to advice without losing himself into saving people.

For myself only, it, damsel, would take away from serving Sir. If he was the knight achetype he might though be bored with me, if i wasn't forever needing to be saved. I do feel in D/s and M/s these two archetypes can thrive. At what cost i don't know? It though is a cost that would be too expensive in the end for me. Maybe that is why i cannot gravitate to a knight persona.

Again thank you for answering,
wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 9:08:56 PM

DomBlade64

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I and my fellow partners in crime call these "White Knights"

I wasnt aware it happened in person but all to familiar with people white kniting over the net about girls theyve never met.

Im ok with it if its done with good intentions.

But sometimes it can be the wrong advise and these pseudo psychologists need to be careful.

I really like this post. I find it original and refreshing.
Thanks for this.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 9:15:21 PM

wisdomtogive

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kneelforAnne
Thank you for responding to the thread.
I think wanting to be taken care of, is not an automatic lead to a damsel. Some people do want to be completely taken care of so they can devote their time to their Sir/Mistress. In some relationships this is something that is capable of happening too.

To me the damsel and knight archetypes is about saving someone all the time, not occassionally. I would not go as far as calling this neurotic, because that word makes me show my teeth:), but that dynamic interests me. What happens if the damsel learns to take care of her/his own problems the majority of the time, without going to their dom? would this wipe out the dynamic between them? Could they build a new dynamic? What happens if one is away for biz or other obligations for a couple weeks, month..etc? Is it wise to set the damsel up in this scenerio? i don't know. For me only it would be the most damaging thing any one could do to me. These are not questions that I am presenting you, just the questions that go through my mind..

Thanks again for responding,
wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 9:19:21 PM

wisdomtogive

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Thank you DomBlade
The topic interests me, to the point i believe tomorrow i will blog on it. Not in referrance to BDSM, but in general. It is a richily dynamic between 2 people that when studied brings a lot of questions to mind. I am not down on this dynamic, and did wish more who would consider it as theirs' would have spoken up. I do understand why they didn't though.

Thanks again,
wisdom

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/23/2010 9:42:13 PM

dreamerdreaming

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Fast reply: these are rescuers. And it works both ways. My slaveboy and I are recovered rescuers. You cannot rescue someone from themselves.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 3:49:34 AM

wisdomtogive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

Fast reply: these are rescuers. And it works both ways. My slaveboy and I are recovered rescuers. You cannot rescue someone from themselves.

Amen to that. If you could really rescue someone, then the act of rescuing would not need constantly repeated. The relationship though would have to find another way to survive.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 4:39:45 AM

DickSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I need one of those (Knight in shining armour).

I'll come to your rescue sweetheart.

Anyone gotta' white horse I can borrow? I'll trade ya' this here black scooter for it.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 5:35:49 AM

wisdomtogive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DickSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

I need one of those (Knight in shining armour).

I'll come to your rescue sweetheart.

Anyone gotta' white horse I can borrow? I'll trade ya' this here black scooter for it.

DickSteel, rescuer needs a horse? Well, i can give you a horse only if you will ride naked:)

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 5:37:30 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

DickSteel, rescuer needs a horse? Well, i can give you a horse only if you will ride naked:)

Hermione's looking for her King Arthur not her Caligula

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 5:48:06 AM

allthatjaz

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Theres a huge difference when it comes to someone who genuinely needs help and someone who continually looks to be rescued.
I am sure most of us have had the experience of a friend who repeatedly tells you all her woes, who needs advice but never listens to it because the moment she has left your side she is onto her next rescuer. These people don't want to be rescued. They enjoy being the victim too much. For them life has been nothing but one cruel blow after another.

Then we have the genuine guy that tries to help or lends a listening ear or the 'rescuer/whiteknight' that continually looks for a victim. He's not happy unless he thinks he's saving someone and he can't settle for a happy, together person because his ego won't let him.
The problem with whiteknights is, they often pick genuine victims and will use charm and compassion to ease the way. Once recovery starts the whiteknight is off and the victim is left wondering what on earth she did!
A whiteknight will often create a victim, especially someone new to this sort of lifestyle. They will use their powers of persuasion to convince their victim that an ex abused them in some way and then they will let everyone know that it was 'HIM' that picked up the pieces.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 1:04:29 PM

DesFIP

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I have some issues that will never be healed. Over the last forty years, I've been in therapy on and off. Some of them damn good therapists. The issues still exist. I've taken medication when appropriate but am not now on any. If he died I would be handling them myself and still having the same problems with them that I did before him. Maybe I'd go back on medication if the problems were severe enough.

In the meantime, if I can run to him every three/four months when I hit a problem and he takes an hour out of his schedule, or a day, to rescue me I'm grateful. It works. It saves me from either having the anxiety attacks or living off of valium, neither of which are choices I like.

I don't want to be in a relationship with anyone who won't take that hour out of his schedule when needed. Any more than he would want to be in a relationship with me when he needs a hand. He doesn't have anxiety issues but he has been known to lock his keys in the car and I drove an hour there and back to hand over the spare set.

If this was daily, I could see it being impossible. But for me, the knowledge that he will take over when I can't is a concrete expression of love. And as a side benefit, not having to worry about things, knowing that all I need do is turn to him frequently lowers my anxiety enough that I no longer have to very often. It works for us.

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RE: knights and damsel dynamic? - 3/24/2010 1:28:28 PM

wisdomtogive

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Desfip
I so appreciate what you had to say. I do feel it is good he can take that hour and talk with you and help you during those 'times' of distress. Being diagnosed with a chemical imbalance myself, i am well aware of how rewarding that is. The key to me though is the talking, and letting them know you are having a 'tough' time.

Prior to moving in with Sir, he was filled in about my chemical imbalance and how rarely i do struggle with it. I have taken myself off meds now for almost 4 years, except for a short time this past summer. He understood, and knew what works for me and what doesn't, because of the information i gave him. 6 wks after my move here, i had one of those episodes, and i told him. He followed suit well with the information given to him. It was short lived, 2 days, but he basically talked with me as well, and gave me plenty of quiet time, which helps me the most. It is a hard thing to live with a chemical imbalance, as well as frightening. Having someone who understands is great, but i do not see this as a damsel in distress. It is a medical condition that i must be responsible for, not him. The responsibility is in telling him what happens, how to handle it and let him know when it is occurring.

Blessings
wisdom

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