RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 9:32:34 AM)

quote:

Some folks were glad it was signed because it ment that the news was gonna stop interupting their NCAA brackets conversations at the water coolers.


Good luck with that.

This drum's gonna get pounded from now to November and again through 2014.





philosophy -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 9:33:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

gators refusing the dining pleasures now?


...yup i noticed that too. Almost two paragraphs and no mentions of gators. However he did manage to get Southampton wrong.




kdsub -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 9:42:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

The reason I don't know how it will work for me is because the group in charge of setting up the minimum acceptable coverage has not yet been formed much less declared what is or isn't acceptable. My current setup may be found lacking, or if they include HSA donations it may put me in the 40% excise tax area. I am also worried about the possible tax implications if I am forced to close my HSA.

In the light of answering your question so that you might better understand my objections and thoughts on the bill here ya go.

I have continued to agree that we need (still do) health care reforms. There are some very good things that are accomplished via this bill, or at least the intent is good. I particularly like the pre-existing conditions changes, the removal of lifetime and yearly caps on coverage payouts, and even the allowance for parents to cover their kids til 26. I am opposed to (if you haven't noticed) the individual mandates, the creation of 150+ new beauracracies and offices, the unfunded mandates that will be passed on to already struggling states, the Sect of Health & Human being able to access my tax returns, and the hiring of 16k more IRS agents to enforce the mandates.

My objections have nothing to do with who proposed this mess, they are soley based on the mess itself.


Thanks Thadius

I would be interested to know what are the unfunded mandates to states, rather than just changes to existing operating procedures of existing offices. Where do you get your information about the 150 offices and 16,000 IRS agents required?

I would also like to know what your thoughts are about closing the donut whole. Before Bush my pharmaceutical coverage included with my health insurance covered my needs completely. Then with Bush I pay the same amount for my insurance but in October I reach my donut whole and must pay thousands of dollars for my medicine…and still pay the insurance premium. I’ve carried insurance all my life and up until two years ago required medicine only during the occasional infection. Now when I really need it I can’t afford it.

I also wonder why the Republicans, when they had control of congress and the Presidency, did not pursue healthcare reform…why all of a sudden they want reform but when they had the opportunity they did nothing? Could it be politics and not the true desire for change?

Butch




Thadius -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 10:08:42 AM)

The figure for the 16000 new IRS agents comes from the House Ways and Means Committee.

The 150 agencies figure is a counting of all the new agencies, commissions, and governement offices that will be created via this legislation. There are also 13 new Czars to be appointed.

Unfunded mandates include the change in payout formulas for medicare and medicaid, the people that will now have to be given both.

Got to run, but will add more later.




pahunkboy -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 10:22:53 AM)

The poll is BULL SHIT.

I do not know ANYONE who is for it.

NO ONE.




Musicmystery -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 10:27:10 AM)

Then so are all the other polls with people for and against it.

You should get out more.




pahunkboy -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 11:01:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then so are all the other polls with people for and against it.

You should get out more.


14 states are suing.

Wow.  Alex is right.  tyranny runs wild.

14 states.  PA is one of those states.

You can argue it any way you want.  but 14 states are putting resources to STOP the bad legislation.

14 states.

so as you can see- this is much bigger the Alex Jones.  It is the states which house millions of people.  

yet- if they are sueing- of course some will try to say it is conspiracy tin foil.

but - that still means 14 states are not in line for this.  (so far)




Musicmystery -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 11:05:44 AM)

14 States are engaged in theater--unless they've missed the Civil War. Has Alex heard of it?

More reasonable is the challenge to the purchase requirement. If there's legal merit, that's where it is. But there too, it's a weak case.

Time will tell.




rulemylife -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 11:09:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Wow.  Alex is right.............

so as you can see- this is much bigger the Alex Jones.  It is the states which house millions of people.  



Just out of curiosity PA, has there ever been even one instance when you found Alex wrong?




kdsub -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 11:17:21 AM)

Thadius

The estimates for the increase in the IRS are Republican hyperbole. The actual number needed is not stated anywhere that I can find. Why would you need 17,000, in some Republican estimates, more IRS agents to monitor the already existing citizenship? There would be no problem in today’s computer world for a simple cross-reference...16,000 is an exaggeration.

I believe it is politics again instead of hard facts.

More later when I research the rest of your post.

Butch




tiesfreeme -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 2:58:03 PM)

Being European i'm used to a good working health care system. Any time i learn of an American citizen losing his house and the shirt off his back because he didn't have insurance or it wouldn't cover whatever medical treatment he required, i feel embarrassed. As you should feel.
Things like that shouldn't happen in a civilized country!

Give this plan a chance to prove itself. I'm sure there are many flaws but that's no reason to bite off its head.




Sanity -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:07:45 PM)


Its the outrageous taxes in Europe, and the level of governmental control over your lives that you put up with that baffle me. You may prefer a government which acts like a stern nanny who wipes your nose and wipes your ass and burps you and feeds you and gives you a good spanking then puts you to bed if you yearn for a bit of freedom, but we're not all like that over here.

Many of us prefer to be more indepoendant than that, and we tend to enjoy an invigorating level of liberty.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tiesfreeme

Being European i'm used to a good working health care system. Any time i learn of an American citizen losing his house and the shirt off his back because he didn't have insurance or it wouldn't cover whatever medical treatment he required, i feel embarrassed. As you should feel.
Things like that shouldn't happen in a civilized country!

Give this plan a chance to prove itself. I'm sure there are many flaws but that's no reason to bite off its head.





Thadius -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:08:03 PM)

Hiya Butch,

I am definitely glad something was done to close the donut hole. Just think if the bill would have included just these few things that I mentioned being in favor of, perhaps they could have gotten 75+ votes in the Senate and near 400 votes in the House.

Even MSNBC counted the House bill as creating 32 new offices...




pahunkboy -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:14:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Wow.  Alex is right.............so as you can see- this is much bigger the Alex Jones.  It is the states which house millions of people.


Just out of curiosity PA, has there ever been even one instance when you found Alex wrong?


Yes.

The expert- I find most credible is Bob Chapman.




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:16:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Its the outrageous taxes in Europe, and the level of governmental control over your lives that you put up with that baffle me.


What a load of utter and complete generalizing bollocks rofl.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:47:44 PM)

[sm=threadhijack.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Its the outrageous taxes in Europe, and the level of governmental control over your lives that you put up with that baffle me.


What a load of utter and complete generalizing bollocks rofl.


Wow - I agree with kittin! (But I always thought it was 'bullocks!'?)

quote:

Its the outrageous taxes in Europe, and the level of governmental control over your lives that you put up with that baffle me.

Sorry Sanity, but that representation regarding taxation in Europe is no longer true. I can't speak for every country, and personally although I do consider the 100% tax on an auto purchase I was told existed in the Netherlands, and the 70% tax on liqueur sales in Sweden "outrageous" its not universally the case throughout Europe.

I had my accountant run my taxes through Italy's system this year to see exactly how I will fare once relocated and found even before taking some anticipated real estate investment hedges I'm subject to more "outrage" here than I will be in Italy. Of course, you have to consider that I live in the highest taxed State in the Union, CA, but still - I never expected the result. Status quo - I would have paid considerably less in Italy.

Here's a thumbnail of Italy's system: Taxation of an individual's income in Italy is progressive. In other words, the higher the income, the higher the rate of tax payable.In 2009 the tax rate for an individual is between 23%-43%, In addition to direct taxation (IRPEF), there is also a regional tax of 0.9%-1.4% and a municipal tax of 0.1%-0.8%.There are reduced rates of tax and tax exemptions available to certain income earners. The standard rate of Italy corporate tax (IRES) in 2009 is 27.5%%.In addition, local tax (IRAP) is imposed at a rate of 3.9%, bringing the effective tax rate to 31.4%.

Capital gains is:
quote:

The rate of tax payable on capital gains from shareholding is 12.5% for non-qualifying shareholding of up to 25% in a company. For the purpose of calculating a capital gain, the gain is decreased in line with the rate of increase in inflation, from the date of purchase to the date of sale. In regard to capital gains in a corporation, identical relief is allowed at the rate of increase in the Index. Companies pay 27.5% tax on capital gains. In sale of participation, 95% is tax exempt, subject to certain conditions.
Compared to the current 35% US rate growing to 39.6% in 2011, for "short term" and 15% to 20% for long term.

There is a VAT on most basic stuff its between 4%-10%; 20% on some big ticket items; but I pay 10% sales tax now. Key for me is the "inheritance and gift tax; 4-8% in Italy. I'm not planning on dying in 2010 when the rate is 0%; come 2011 the US estate tax reverts back to 37% - 55%!

Ciao!




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:52:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
(But I always thought it was 'bullocks!'?)


"Bollocks is a word of Anglo-Saxon origin, meaning "testicles". The word is often used figuratively in British English, as a noun to mean "nonsense", an expletive following a minor accident or misfortune, or an adjective to mean "poor quality" or "useless". Similarly, the common phrases "Bollocks to this!" or "That's a load of old bollocks" generally indicate contempt for a certain task, subject or opinion. Conversely, the word also figures in idiomatic phrases such as "the dog's bollocks" and "top bollock(s)", which usually refer to something which is admired, approved of or well-respected."

Alternative spelling are "ballocks" and "bollix". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollocks




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 3:57:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Ciao!


Say "ciao" to Benit... sorry, Silvio, from us.




slvemike4u -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 4:25:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then so are all the other polls with people for and against it.

You should get out more.
Don't be silly Tim...Alex told him he doesn't like it....PA needs no other information.




Sanity -> RE: Poll: Health-care reform more popular after passage than before (3/24/2010 4:42:51 PM)


But the VAT adds taxation at each level of production, correct? While sales tax as practiced in most states is only added at the final sale to the end user, making VAT taxes a prime example of the outrageous levels of taxation to be found throughout most of Europe.




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