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RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:17:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		How about if you choose not to buy insurance you don't have coverage?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:18:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Yet you would still be entitled to care? Hardly a penalty.

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RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:19:02 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

How about if you choose not to buy insurance you don't have coverage?


Hmmm... Sounds awfully similar to the plan we have now. 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:19:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		What should the penalty that you pay if you my laptop breaks?

nevermind  that you have rent, heat, electric, phone and food to pay.

what amount of federal reserve notes- should you be required to pay ?

what asinine logic.

NONE.    No penalty.   Nada.   $0.


Nothing.


We are not livestock that need to be managed.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:26:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

How about if you choose not to buy insurance you don't have coverage?
Now,Merc simply because you don't find this program to be both necessary and benificial there is no need for you to be sarcastic.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:39:31 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
How about if you choose not to buy insurance you don't have coverage?
Hmmm... Sounds awfully similar to the plan we have now. 


Actually there is a difference. "Now", or at least at some point after the next presidential election, there will no longer be a pre existing exclusion provision as there is now for adults and/or children up to the newly nationalized age of adolescence - 26.

The "law" mandates payment of whatever premium the newly entitled health insurance companies deem appropriate. You don't buy it now with "universal availability" it is your fault; and no coverage is a reasonable consequence.

Of course - as in the case of you being 'underwater' in your mortgage and can't afford your house payment today - you will be 'rewarded' for your inability to be self-sufficient and get a government entitlement subsidy to help you pay as a reward for your failure. I think once the under-equity house entitlement is in place; the next logical move for this Administration will be to implement an 'under-equity' car lease subsidy program to not only reward those who didn't appreciate, or were too stupid to, read their lease and now find themselves unable to pay the car value gap at the end of the lease; but as a 'Bush Stimulus III' for the government owned GM.

Precedent is set - all you need to do is not live up to your personal and family responsibilities and the government will step in and reward you. It is absolutely foolish, or at minimum old fashioned, to be self reliant. It only results in having to pay more taxes, fees, success penalties, and come under the scrutiny of more regulations. All necessary to pay those smart enough to take advantage of the rewards being put in place for not being personally accountable.

Obamism is working - as long as you don't work, have your business fail, or have your hand out.

QED!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/26/2010 2:41:27 PM >

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:42:00 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet you would still be entitled to care? Hardly a penalty.


The same as it is now, as it was last week, and last year.

When both of my daughters were born, I didn't have insurance, paid cash for both of em and for my ex-wife who was in the hospital for 2 weeks prior to the birth of my first. I even joked with the billing department about if I didn't make a payment would they come and repossess them. The people there were great and would have accepted as little as $10 a month as long as something was being paid.

Having insurance or not having insurance doesn't mean that care is available or not available now. So why would that change in the future? The difference is that when the mandate kicks in I will be forced to wager the insurance company a few thousand a year that I am going to need care that costs more than that few thousand a year + deductible.

The real penalty is going to be felt by Medicare and Medicaid recipients as more and more hospitals, doctors, pharmacies and physical therapists stop accepting patients that are covered by those plans. It is already beginning.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:43:27 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I think Thadius' idea is the best solution to make this work.  Up the penalty for fees so the incentive to join in the pool is real.  Thats the only way it'll work imho.  If people stand back, preferring to take the low road when they're healthy, then as they age or get sick, its still a burden to the system, and to the people playing by the rules. 

I can't see people who are dying or in a crisis being denied care.  That just seems too inhumane and in the end, ultimately, I don't think that will happen.  So I think the penalty should be a higher penalty than named...and may as well be taken out at tax time if you choose to exclude yourself from healthcare. 

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:47:38 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		In 2 years time Medicare and Medicaid will have drastic cuts.  20% for medicare.

...so hell yeah- take from the crippled elderly - ...makes sense ... (NOT)

meanwhile nothing changes - in making bankruptcy of medical debt any easier.  in fact- 2005 it got harder.  so this is not reform.
not in the sense of being helpful to the peon.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 2:54:30 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
How about if you choose not to buy insurance you don't have coverage?
Hmmm... Sounds awfully similar to the plan we have now. 


Actually there is a difference. "Now", or at least at some point after the next presidential election, there will no longer be a pre existing exclusion provision as there is now for adults and/or children up to the newly nationalized age of adolescence - 26.

The "law" mandates payment of whatever premium the newly entitled health insurance companies deem appropriate. You don't buy it now with "universal availability" it is your fault; and no coverage is a reasonable consequence.

Of course - as in the case of you being 'underwater' in your mortgage and can't afford your house payment today - you will be 'rewarded' for your inability to be self-sufficient and get a government entitlement subsidy to help you pay as a reward for your failure. I think once the under-equity house entitlement is in place; the next logical move for this Administration will be to implement an 'under-equity' car lease subsidy program to not only reward those who didn't appreciate, or were too stupid to, read their lease and now find themselves unable to pay the car value gap at the end of the lease; but as a 'Bush Stimulus III' for the government owned GM.

Precedent is set - all you need to do is not live up to your personal and family responsibilities and the government will step in and reward you. It is absolutely foolish, or at minimum old fashioned, to be self reliant. It only results in having to pay more taxes, fees, success penalties, and come under the scrutiny of more regulations. All necessary to pay those smart enough to take advantage of the rewards being put in place for not being personally accountable.

Obamism is working - as long as you don't work, have your business fail, or have your hand out.

QED!
Just one little question Merc,....is the sky falling where you are? Or is that scheduled for after the "under-equity" program is implemented?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:03:48 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Just one little question Merc,....is the sky falling where you are? Or is that scheduled for after the "under-equity" program is implemented?


I don't understand the comment. Is the under equity mortgage payment program not today's newly announced entitlement program? Is this a created crisis or a real one requiring more government intervention?

Sky is beautiful and blue where I live. It must be falling somewhere though because this Administration feels a need to spend more on those who have accomplished less.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:10:21 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I guess the answer to that question could depend on one's situation....are you currently under-water due to some trouble caused by this recession?If the answer to that is yes....than you would most probably not see this as an "entitlement"program,rather you just might view it as needed and necessary government intervention during a time of crisis.
By the way,why is it so hard for some to acknowledge that when their neighbor's house is foreclosed on the value of their own house plummets.....reducing the frequency of these foreclosures helps every property owner....not just those who are in danger of losing their homes!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:10:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		forget about paying my rent.  I need me INSsurance.  Forget about paying the heat.  I need me ,I need me INSsurance.   forget about paying the electric,  I need me INSsurance.

forget about buying food,   I need me INSsurance.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:17:42 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Just one little question Merc,....is the sky falling where you are? Or is that scheduled for after the "under-equity" program is implemented?


I don't understand the comment. Is the under equity mortgage payment program not today's newly announced entitlement program? Is this a created crisis or a real one requiring more government intervention?

Sky is beautiful and blue where I live. It must be falling somewhere though because this Administration feels a need to spend more on those who have accomplished less.
Or one could say that this administration,unlike the previous one,has decided to assist those members of our society who need that assistance the most.I do realise this is a matter of perspective,have you reached the same realisation Merc?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:28:52 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Mike,

What about those that are struggling and have cut back on everything including some necessities so that they could stay current on their bills? I know, fuck them because they acted responsibly.

It makes that campaign slogan make so much more sense now I am hoping I have some change left in my pocket and savings by the time we are done saving everybody from everything.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:30:38 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I guess the answer to that question could depend on one's situation....are you currently under-water due to some trouble caused by this recession?
Wrong. Fundamentally I own the consequences of every decision I make. Admittedly an antiquated philosophy not shared by many. I treat causes out of my control similar to assigning blame - I don't waste time with either.
quote:

If the answer to that is yes....than you would most probably not see this as an "entitlement"program,rather you just might view it as needed and necessary government intervention during a time of crisis.
Again - Wrong. Perhaps again uniquely, I don't determine or change a words definition when its applied to me. The new program is an entitlement. The 'crisis' was a result of a decision made by those involved. Tell the people who didn't overextend, or who didn't buy a home and take on a mortgage because they knew they couldn't afford it, and were waiting for the 'housing bubble' to burst; why their taxes should be used for a government handout to pay a defaulting mortgage payment for someone who didn't have their fiscal integrity. I have empathy for those in foreclosure. I have a higher degree of empathy for those who waited and didn't.

Which is why I think the next crisis should be under collateralized car leases. Is is so hard to some to acknowledge that when their neighbors' car is repossess or the value plummets, that everyone's car value plummets?

quote:

By the way,why is it so hard for some to acknowledge that when their neighbor's house is foreclosed on the value of their own house plummets.....reducing the frequency of these foreclosures helps every property owner....not just those who are in danger of losing their homes!
It is appropriate for prices to be what they are. Every commodity, including real estate, has a value equal to what someone is willing to pay for it. Except now - when the value is propped up by government intervention. If that action stabilizes or increases the value of the property it is only due to the decreasing value of the dollar. You want more people to work and be able to afford housing - let the housing market obtain the market value.

quote:

Or one could say that this administration,unlike the previous one,has decided to assist those members of our society who need that assistance the most.I do realise this is a matter of perspective,have you reached the same realisation Merc?

I didn't realize, or agree with the position you take - that the US government should be run as a charity. Here I thought a government purpose and goal was to provide opportunity, and if not reward, at least don't penalize those who took advantage of those opportunities and succeeded. Most of those people, like myself, contribute not only dollars, but time and effort to various charities. By your comments I take it you feel charity should be a government priority over any other, discounting consequences such as the deficit.

I know, I know, another antiquated idea! Sorry about that. Charity it is for Obamism.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/26/2010 3:45:09 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:40:16 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		oops!

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:43:12 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		well- you can always sell carbon credits.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:46:39 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I guess the answer to that question could depend on one's situation....are you currently under-water due to some trouble caused by this recession?
Wrong. Fundamentally I own the consequences of every decision I make. Admittedly an antiquated philosophy not shared by many. I treat causes out of my control similar to assigning blame - I don't waste time with either.Well what the hell since you say it's wrong....I might as well just walk away.Nah,I'm just not built that way,so lets look at this a bit.One can "own" the consequences of every decision they make and still be subject to forces outside their limited sphere of control.Whether or not you waste time with "either" is quite besides the point...you seem to be doing fine in the current economic climate,their are those who are less fortunate and are forced by their circumstances to deal with forces or at least to suffer from forces and events outside their control.I'm sure these people would like to be in the position where they could take your attitude 
quote:

If the answer to that is yes....than you would most probably not see this as an "entitlement"program,rather you just might view it as needed and necessary government intervention during a time of crisis.
Again - Wrong. Perhaps again uniquely, I don't determine or change a words definition when its applied to me. The new program is an entitlement. The 'crisis' was a result of a decision made by those involved. Tell the people who didn't overextend, or who didn't buy a home and take on a mortgage because they knew they couldn't afford it, and were waiting for the 'housing bubble' to burst; why their taxes should be used for a government handout to pay a defaulting mortgage payment for someone who didn't have their fiscal integrity. I have empathy for those in foreclosure. I have a higher degree of empathy for those who waited and didn't. Now this is just so much bullshit Merc the current crisis can not, by any stretch of the imagination, be laid solely at the feet of under water mortgages...while doing so might help to bolster your argument the facts themselves can not be altered just because they suit you.You object to my changing the meaning of a word...while you go ahead and redefine a financial cataclysm to suit your needs?

Which is why I think the next crisis should be under collateralized car leases. Is is so hard to some to acknowledge that when their neighbors' car is repossess or the value plummets, that everyone's car value plummets?Just a silly little statement that simply does not warrant a response.

quote:

By the way,why is it so hard for some to acknowledge that when their neighbor's house is foreclosed on the value of their own house plummets.....reducing the frequency of these foreclosures helps every property owner....not just those who are in danger of losing their homes!
It is appropriate for prices to be what they are. Every commodity, including real estate, has a value equal to what someone is willing to pay for it. Except now - when the value is propped up by government intervention. If that action stabilizes or increases the value of the property it is only due to the decreasing value of the dollar. You want more people to work and be able to afford housing - let the housing market obtain the market value.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Name your penalty! - 3/26/2010 3:58:32 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Community service. There are plenty of repairs and cleaning jobs to be done in any city, town, county, rural area, etc.

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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