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RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 11:40:41 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff
As soon as people place more value on an activity, than on the person involved, you are fucked.
Again, I'm ill-inclined to say what is or is not good for others. It is certainly true that I care WAY more about Carol than I do about Carol-sub or Carol-slave or any other specific variant of Carol.



I tend to agree with you. My repsonses are always just that. My view of things.

Folks can be whatever they want to be. it seldom keeps me up at night...":)

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 12:13:56 PM   
jbcurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

So my question should have been...

If a Dom puts a sub into subspace and takes them past their limits, is it correct?



You are focused on the acts...forget the acts...I could cut her clit hood off and it could be wonderful for both of us or I could kiss her and violate her boundaries. It isn't the act...

Its the motivation BEHIND the act

Did I purposely put her in subspace so I could manipulate her into agreeing to do something she will later regret? Or did I put her in subspace so she could be in an emotional space that would make it easier and more enjoyable to enjoy something for the first time knowing that the next day she will be all goey thinking about it.

Think of how hot a kiss can be...and think how violated you would feel if someone you didn't like kissed you, it isn't the act, it is the motivation and situation behind the act.

As I have said, I love pushing limits, but I do it because it is hot for me and PART of why it is hot is I can get her to lust for something she once hated even when she ISN'T all horny or subspaced out...my motivation isn't just "how do I get what I want and fuck the consequences" but instead "how do I create consequences that allow me to get what I want over and over again"?


You scare the hell out of me... but I understand what you're saying. That takes it back to the first question of how do you know what will make me regret or go all goey... Which also has been answered... By my careful selection of a Dom and good communication.

In spite of how it may sound in this thread, I'm not afraid of having my limits pushed. I sometimes have a knee jerk reaction to things that I don't understand but if I step back and look at it objectivly I can sometimes relax that limit to a possibility... but I need to be aware of where the Dom intends to take me.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 1:44:20 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Don't worry, I am all talk...I am really sweet as a kitten and twice as fluffy. All kidding aside, it also isnt about being infallible, you want to be pushed, the person pushing is going to screw up sometimes, things happen, working WITH each other to process that and learn from it is important.


(in reply to jbcurious)
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RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 2:57:40 PM   
heartfeltsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Don't worry, I am all talk...I am really sweet as a kitten and twice as fluffy. All kidding aside, it also isnt about being infallible, you want to be pushed, the person pushing is going to screw up sometimes, things happen, working WITH each other to process that and learn from it is important.




Hmmm, am thinking of the kitty from the Flinstone's, what was that a Sabertooth Tiger.

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 3/29/2010 3:09:33 PM >

_____________________________

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Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

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RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 3:26:34 PM   
jbcurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Don't worry, I am all talk...I am really sweet as a kitten and twice as fluffy. All kidding aside, it also isnt about being infallible, you want to be pushed, the person pushing is going to screw up sometimes, things happen, working WITH each other to process that and learn from it is important.



Here kitty, kitty, kitty...


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 4:31:59 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub


Hmmm, am thinking of the kitty from the Flinstone's, what was that a Sabertooth Tiger.



mmmmmm I was thinking Garfield....... I guess it's all about one's perspective on things ;)

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 6:31:46 PM   
takemeforyourown


Posts: 430
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline 		I think my Dom, if I had one, would know that he pushed me too hard if he needed CPR to bring me back. That'd teach 'im...or maybe not.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 7:51:44 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		This is really as simple as the age old problem-women expecting men to be totally empathic, mystical mind readers. Then having hissy fits when they just do what they want to.

If in doubt-freaking SAY something.

Or quit whining about your pussy-footing around getting you into hot water.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 8:50:31 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		My Master and I have done several things that I had some sort of physical or emotional difficulty with. We discussed it when I wasn't in subspace, and made "baby step" plans to work toward those goals, but often, once I was working on them, being warmed up a lot or in subspace did help me with the play activity ones. Here's a post I wrote a few months ago about trying something I'd previously had a *VERY* bad experience with. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2852355 I don't expect my Master to read my mind - usually he can read my body language well, but sometimes, it isn't as obvious as at other times. If I'm deep enough within subspace, I can't say "red," or "no," or my own name, so depending on verbal feedback doesn't always work. In those cases, if he's exploring a new area, he'll give me keys or something to use as a non-verbal signal to check in.

(in reply to Smutmonger)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 8:56:55 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		There are a lot more ways to push boundaries besides sm play.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 11:11:38 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Safe Sane Concensual; Risk Aware Consensual Kink; Safe Sane Informed Consensual Kink...

Trust is more often misplaced than it is breached. Would you allow a street vendor in a third world country to administer general anesthesia and perform dental work? Likewise, you must carefully CHOOSE whom you will allow to lead you into an altered state. Gain confidence with experience over time. Patience is a virtue.

Yes, where you choose to go with a partner is voluntarily sharing that space. When your consensual choice has been breached, you have been abused. While you may not be directly at fault for such a breach, you may have proximately caused the breach through misplaced trust.

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/29/2010 11:20:36 PM   
aldompdx


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Joined: 10/24/2004
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quote:


There are two kinds of boundaries: Soft ... and hard


When is a limit not a limit? Whenever a narcissist says so.
A limit is not a guideline or a preference, it is a boundary. There is nothing soft or hard about it.

The relevant question of a narcissistically defined "soft limit" is whether you are are a masochist who appreciates abuse.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 12:15:38 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

quote:


There are two kinds of boundaries: Soft ... and hard


When is a limit not a limit? Whenever a narcissist says so.
A limit is not a guideline or a preference, it is a boundary. There is nothing soft or hard about it.

The relevant question of a narcissistically defined "soft limit" is whether you are are a masochist who appreciates abuse.


I have to disagree here. A hard limit is just that - an absolute boundary that may not be crossed.

A soft limit is, to an intelligent Dom, something that needs to be approached cautiously or it will turn into a hard limit.

An example. My hard limit is knives. No knives, ever. Not even joking about knives during play or otherwise. There is no way on this earth that knives will be part of play anytime during this lifetime.

One of my (few) soft limits - masks. As a claustrophobic, they can freak me into an asthma-attack-inducing panic attack. Does that mean I'll never use them? No. Does it mean that with time, trust and gradual introduction that I may even learn to tolerate them and maybe even enjoy them? Very possibly. It has happened with other activities.

Tell me I can only have hard limits and I'll stick masks on that list and we both lose something that we might both enjoy immensely in time. Flexibility is the answer!



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There's nowt so queer as folk


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 1:53:58 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

This is really as simple as the age old problem-women expecting men to be totally empathic, mystical mind readers. Then having hissy fits when they just do what they want to.

If in doubt-freaking SAY something.

Or quit whining about your pussy-footing around getting you into hot water.


This isn't about whining...it's about learning...In an attempt to keep my question from being "all about me" or a "pity thread" I phrased the question badly. I made a very stupid choice years ago and the result of that was giving up the idea of BDSM in my life.

What to you seems like common knowledge or common sense... Isn't to me, because the only knowledge I have is a brief personal experience that turned out badly due to my lack of knowledge and a lot of stereotypes that are bandied about in the vanilla world.

It would be a bit like client coming into the salon with purple hair because of products she had used that had an adverse reaction...

My first thought is "how can you be so stupid, you never mix those chemicals" Common knowledge to me... but for someone experimenting with no training or knowledge... how could they know?

That's why my first thread was "Am I looking for a BDSM relatioship" I put forth info about myself and what I was looking for and came out of it feeling confident that what I am looking for could be found here. I wasn't sure that mono was even a possibility in the BDSM community and now I find it's not only possible but quite common.

Until my "experience" I had never experienced "subspace" and had no idea I could lose myself so completly. In spite of the results... it's something I would like to experience again.

So while my first thread was to explore the possibilities of BDSM becoming part of my life...the second was to put some ghosts to rest and find out if what happened was the result of my own stupidity or if the attitude was prevelent throughout the community.

I'm reassured in knowing that it was the result of my stupidity and that the attitude is not common but considered wrong.

I want to continue learning and hopfully find the right relationship to put my new found knowledge to good use.




(in reply to Smutmonger)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 3:41:42 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Not stupidity.  Just being new and getting taken advantage of.

And not by me. 


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 3:46:58 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Not stupidity.  Just being new and getting taken advantage of.

And not by me. 




hehehehe - did I ever tell you that I love you Steven??


_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 4:04:03 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Not stupidity.  Just being new and getting taken advantage of.

And not by me. 


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 4:07:46 AM   
jbcurious


Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Not stupidity.  Just being new and getting taken advantage of.

And not by me. 







(in reply to jbcurious)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 4:34:00 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Not stupidity.  Just being new and getting taken advantage of.

And not by me. 




hehehehe - did I ever tell you that I love you Steven??



Not nearly often enough...


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Pushing Boundries - 3/30/2010 4:52:35 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself


hehehehe - did I ever tell you that I love you Steven??



Not nearly often enough...



if you were a certified millionaire I'd tell you every day

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 80
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