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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Maybe you should find an ouija board and ask the noble conservative Richard Nixon that?

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The incident at the "Y" in the trails
On August 21, 1992, six marshals were sent to scout the area to determine suitable places away from the cabin to ambush and arrest Weaver. The marshals, dressed in camouflage, were equipped with night-vision goggles and M16 rifles. DUSMs Art Roderick, Larry Cooper and Bill Degan formed the recon team, while DUSMs David Hunt, Frank Norris and Joseph Thomas formed an OP team (observation post) on the ridge north of the cabin.

At one point, Roderick threw two rocks at the Weaver cabin to test the reaction of the dogs. The dogs became alerted, and Weaver's friend Kevin Harris, and Weaver's 14 year old son, Samuel, emerged and followed the dog Striker to investigate. Harris and the younger Weaver were hoping that the dog had noticed a game animal since the cabin was out of meat. Sammy Weaver told his father he believed the dogs had sensed either a large animal or a man in the woods. The recon team marshals (Roderick, Cooper and Degan) initially retreated through the woods in radio contact with the OP team, but later took up hidden defensive positions.

Later the OP team marshals and the Weavers both claimed that the Weaver dogs alerted to the recon team marshals in the woods after neighbors at the foot of the mountain started their pickup truck. The recon team marshals retreated through the woods to the "Y" juncture in the trails 500 yards west of the cabin, out of sight of the cabin. Sammy and Harris followed the dog Striker on foot through the woods while Randy also on foot took a separate logging trail. Vicki, Sara, Rachel, and baby Elisheba remained at the cabin, at first appearing anxious to the OP team, but later appearing relaxed. Randy encountered the marshals at the "Y"; Roderick recalled yelling, "Back off! U.S. Marshal!" and Cooper recalled yelling, "Stop! U.S. Marshal!" Later statements by Roderick, Cooper and Randy agreed that Randy responded by cursing and running away. About a minute later the dog and the boys came out of the woods and a firefight erupted between the marshals and Sammy and Harris.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Moonhead, the problem that these right wingers dont want to admit, is that in all the major cases involving groups like this, ALL but two has happened during REPUBLICAN administrations.

These were Ruby Ridge, The Viper Militia arrests in Arizona in 1996, The Freemen group siege in Montana in 96, the Oklahoma city bombing, the Unabomber.

Under democrats we have the Waco siege and then this group in Michigan.

Further research only comes up with the Weather Underground Organization and the SLA (Symbionese Liberation Army, which is questionable.)

Looking at the history of groups that have preached, planned or acted against the US Government in the US has been right wing groups prosecuted under Republican administrations. Kind of interesting when you think of it.

The only other Far Left Group that is listed as a domestic terrorist group is the Animal Liberation Front, currently in operation and on the FBI watch list.

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Violence by domestic terrorists will continue to present a threat to the United States over the next five years. The number of traditional left wing terrorist groups, typically advocating the overthrow of the U.S. Government because of the perceived growth of capitalism and imperialism, have diminished in recent years. However, new groups have emerged that may pose an increasing threat. Right wing extremists, espousing anti-government or racist sentiment, will pose a threat because of their continuing collection of weapons and explosives coupled with their propensity for violence. The most significant domestic terrorism threat over the next five years will be the lone actor, or “lone wolf” terrorist. They typically draw ideological inspiration from formal terrorist organizations, but operate on the fringes of those movements. Despite their ad hoc nature and generally limited resources, they can mount high-profile, extremely destructive attacks, and their operational planning is often difficult to detect.

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Yesterday, a Department of Homeland Security report about the rising radicalization of “rightwing extremists” was leaked. The right wing was immediately incensed, viewing the report on radical “extremists” as an attack on “conservatives.” MSNBC host Joe Scarborough, for example, tried to suggest it was a report about Republican “loyalists.”

However, this morning, Fox News’s Catherine Herridge revealed that the report, along with an earlier report on radicalized left-wing groups, was actually “requested by the Bush administration” but not completed until recently:

HERRIDGE: Well this is an element of the story which has largely gone unreported. One looks at right-wing groups, as you mentioned. And a second is on left-wing groups. Significantly, both were requested by the Bush administration but not finished until President Bush left office.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, so it was as the Clinton administration was assuming office.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity
You don't know what you're talking about, at least with Ruby Ridge incident. I attended Randy Weaver's trial in Boise and that was a case of pure criminal entrapment on the part of the boys from Janet Reno's ATF.

A federal agent convinced a very poor Randy Weaver to cut off a shotgun exactly at the spot that made it an illegal firearm in exchange for a thick wad of cash. The agent provided the shotgun and he instructed Weaver exactly where to cut it off. The reason they did this was so they could hold the crime over Weaver's head and force Weaver to spy on the Aryan Nations for them, to wear a wire to their meetings. If found with the bug by the Aryan Nation the Aryans would have killed him and possibly his family too, but if Mr. Weaver failed to cooperate with the feds then they would jail him and essentially destroy his family.

Weaver was a very simple man and he rightfully felt that his government was unlawfully persecuting him, and thats when he decided that he couldn't win if they weren't even going to follow their own rules.

That was an awful case, innocent people were needlessly murdered by bumbling idiotic bureaucrats and if thats one of your examples of "angry right wingers" then I wouldn't trust any of the other examples you throw out there without knowing more of the facts and from a source other than yourself. 

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ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


Okay, so it was as the Clinton administration was assuming office.

It was two and a half months before the fucking election.

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Most of the indicted militia members accused of being anti-government extremists have active voting records, a check with area voter registration offices showed yesterday. One is a registered Democrat, and the party affiliations of the rest could not be determined.


Jacob J. Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio, voted as a Democrat in the 2004 and 2008 primary elections. He also voted in 10 other elections since 2000. Party affiliation in Ohio is determined by which party's ballot they requested in the most recent primary election.

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100401/NEWS16/4010369

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Weaver was many things but a simple innocent man he wasn't.

To clear up one matter that i see others have done as well. The illegal modification of the 2 shotguns was in 1989. long before President Clinton or AG Reno were sworn in.

The Ruby Ridge siege began on 8/21/1992 and ended in earl September of 1992 still 2 months prior to Clinton winning the 1992 election.

If Weaver hadn't been attending Aryan Nations events (where he met the undercover ATF agent in the first place) and hadn't been willing to illegally cut down shotguns for money he certainly wouldn't have had any trouble.

Once Weaver was busted he had the right, which he exercised, to not wear a wire and inform on his friends but in so doing he opened himself up to prosecution. When Weaver missed his court date, blamelessly, a bench warrant was issued. He knew about it no more than a week after it was issued. A law abiding citizen would have simply turned himself in and when the mistaken summons was shown to the judge the charges related to the failure to appear would have been dropped. But instead he and his friend chose to hole up on Weaver's property, telling others he would not surrender which guaranteed a bad outcome.