RE: Which America?

RE: Which America? (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:14:21 PM)
Badlands National Park ENTRANCE FEES Private, non-commercial vehicle $15 - Valid for 7 days Individual - hike, bicycle $7 - Valid for 7 days Motorcycle $10 - Valid for 7 days Badlands National Park Annual Pass $30 - Valid for one year from month of purchase Details Admits the purchaser and their passengers in a single, private, non-commercial vehicle or the passholder and their companions when entry is by other means (i.e. foot, bicycle). Nontransferable, nonrefundable, and does not cover camping fees. Organized, non-commercial groups (i.e. service organizations, scouts, church groups, and college/school clubs) $7 per person - Valid for 7 days COMMERCIAL TOUR FEES Commercial sedan, 1 to 6 passenger capacity $25 plus $7 per person - 7 days for Original Manifest Commercial van, 7 to 15 passenger capacity $50 - 7 days for Original Manifest Minibus, 16 to 25 passenger capacity $60 - 7 days for Original Manifest Motorcoach, 26 or more passenger capacity $150 - 7 days for Original Manifest INTERAGENCY PASS PROGRAM The following passes are available at Badlands National Park: *America the Beautiful - National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass - Annual Pass* $80 - Valid for one year from month of purchase http://www.nps.gov/badl/planyourvisit/feesandreservations.htm

rulemylife -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:16:31 PM)
Could be my mistake but I don't remember paying.

sirsholly -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:19:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I was out near you two years ago and I know Badlands National Park does not charge. But this is starting to be a silly argument, some do, some don't. i thought they only changed for a camping permit?

Thadius -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:20:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I was serious, but fair enough. I guess we can conclude we have too many idiots on both sides. See I knew it wouldn't take forever for us to agree on something.

Sanity -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:21:17 PM)
You have to pay just to step outside of your car in some areas that are only national forest now, and every national park that I've been to has a toll booth set up at every entrance.

rulemylife -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:29:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I was serious, but fair enough. I guess we can conclude we have too many idiots on both sides. See I knew it wouldn't take forever for us to agree on something. Except you have to admit, you have more idiots on your side of the aisle. [sm=insane.gif]

Thadius -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 12:36:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I was serious, but fair enough. I guess we can conclude we have too many idiots on both sides. See I knew it wouldn't take forever for us to agree on something. Except you have to admit, you have more idiots on your side of the aisle. [sm=insane.gif] Seeing as my side of the aisle is not even elected into office, I would have to admit that the odds are there are more than 537 idiots out here. Some of them post regularly around here.[sm=stickineye.gif]

popeye1250 -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 1:14:56 PM)
I know "which America" I don't want, one in which paper-pushing beaurocrats like Ray LaHood determine what type of cars we buy! They said on the Howie Carr Show that USA Today said that there are 1,700 people in the Dept of Transportation who are making $170K or more. These people sharpen pencils and send each other "memos" all day. Just for comparison disabled veterans get pensions of about $28K per year. Nice huh?

thornhappy -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 1:28:41 PM)
We went all around with this last year when the news first came out. A bunch of this is due to when the top position's pay goes up, so do the levels below it. Those pay levels are in the Senior Executive Service, and those positions are approved by Congress. They have equivalent rank to General Officers in the military. Some of the government is covered by NSPS, which is performance-based, and pay levels of high performers climbed higher than in the standard GS system (I'm talking GS-15 and below). In the past, the GS system was scorned for promoting mediocrity, and when NSPS came along, people then ranted about the increased salaries. People at the top of the GS-15 levels, or in the SES generally have 28-30 years of service at increasingly higher levels of skill and responsibility. Their pay is far lower than chief executives (CEO/CFO/CIO/CTO) officers at comparably sized corporations. And no, Popeye, no matter how much you say it, it's not mindless, skill-less memo writing that requires no specialized knowledge.

popeye1250 -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 2:18:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy We went all around with this last year when the news first came out. A bunch of this is due to when the top position's pay goes up, so do the levels below it. Those pay levels are in the Senior Executive Service, and those positions are approved by Congress. They have equivalent rank to General Officers in the military. Some of the government is covered by NSPS, which is performance-based, and pay levels of high performers climbed higher than in the standard GS system (I'm talking GS-15 and below). In the past, the GS system was scorned for promoting mediocrity, and when NSPS came along, people then ranted about the increased salaries. People at the top of the GS-15 levels, or in the SES generally have 28-30 years of service at increasingly higher levels of skill and responsibility. Their pay is far lower than chief executives (CEO/CFO/CIO/CTO) officers at comparably sized corporations. And no, Popeye, no matter how much you say it, it's not mindless, skill-less memo writing that requires no specialized knowledge. Thorn, you're right! Our govt. is running at top efficiency! If a private corporation were to take over the DOT I wonder how many of those "generals" would still be around after 90 days?

thornhappy -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 3:29:02 PM)
Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 3:36:32 PM)
quote: Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay. Sure there are - plenty! However, they are productive, they have quantitative results to achieve, and they are responsible for a 'bottom line'. They also have to manage to a budget and if they run up a deficit, they can't go down in the copy room and print out more money. Nobody works for a corporation, large or small, without generating a return on that pay 'investment'. If they were working for any 'company' losing as much money as the government - they would be fired, not promoted up to another, higher paying 'G' status.

popeye1250 -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 4:10:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay. And what about disabled veterans? Do you think $28 k is fair? There's two home healthcare aids next door who each make more than that!

eyesopened -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 5:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Merc didn't address any of my questions at all. No doubt I am too insignificant. Not liking the answers is not the same thing as not having the questions answered. quote: I understand in Merc's model, there would be no place for someone like me. That's fine. I don't care, I just want to know where I belong or don't belong. But what I am seeing is a lot of talk and little action and frankly none of the talk is making sense. Again, someone please dumb it down for me! What answer do you seek? You asked about which America? You didn't ask for anyone to address where you personally would or wouldn't fit in to that America. I don't know you, your situation, what you can or can not do. However, an all inclusive answer regardless of the situation - work or exist within whatever system is in place. quote: If either or both are the case, please can someone tell me what is being done to accomplish this? That's an easy question to answer pertaining to the answer I provided - nothing is being done, nor will it, nor do I expect that condition to change. Funny - that's how it works now. Whether from the entitlement side or the entitlement paying side. That is what we all do - function. You want people to provide a solution for you. Appreciate that - however that's not a function of "which America" I want. It is not a function of which America the 'tea baggers' want. It is a function of which America best serves 'eyesopened'. My desires or vision of 'America' offered no solution for you because none was solicited. Why wouldn't there be a place for you "in Merc's model"? At the same time, why is it the function of any government to map out a plan for your personal care and well being? There are charities, there are services, there are job training centers; which serve that fiction. There are also government programs. Maybe you should have provided your idyllic view and model. What would it be? No planning for the future, go through life 'getting by', at some point rely on the government to address all the results of your prior decisions? Okay - yeah, I would like that too! If I thought such a situation were in place when I grew up, I know I would have done a lot of things differently. However, it wasn't, and my expectations were based on a foundation of not expecting anyone to do anything for me and working for whatever I wanted, under whatever conditions existed out of my control. One result of expecting nothing is, I've never been disappointed. Nor have I wasted time, or energy, feeling sorry for myself as a consequence of a decision made by government, or any source out of my control, having a direct major impact on me and my life. There is a cause and affect for every result. A person today is a product of all the days before. Everyone who responded posted their personal position, as do the 'tea-baggers' who, although having a platform, have no more power in affecting your life than a poster on CM. Obama, Bush, Congress; all are good sources of blame, but only you determine how to react to decisions they make which influence you. Giving up is an option, so is taking advantage of what is available. There is a lot more than "mowing lawns". Curse the darkness or turn on a light. One of the choices changes the condition generating the complaint - one makes noise. Whatever you do - my sincere best wishes for success in achieving all you have earned. Why be an ass? You assume I am just another with my hand out. How wrong you are. I'm not proposing anything, I asked what do the Republicans want, what do the Tea-Partiers want. How you truned that into Eyes wanting everything handed to her is beyond me. What a ugly ugly view of everything and everybody you must have. My sincere and best wishes for your having all that you care for. I already do have success and have earned everything I have. I don't want one single thing from anyone. Believe that.

slvemike4u -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 5:23:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay. Sure there are - plenty! However, they are productive, they have quantitative results to achieve, and they are responsible for a 'bottom line'. They also have to manage to a budget and if they run up a deficit, they can't go down in the copy room and print out more money. Nobody works for a corporation, large or small, without generating a return on that pay 'investment'. If they were working for any 'company' losing as much money as the government - they would be fired, not promoted up to another, higher paying 'G' status. This is just me,but in light of recent events....I would not want to be making that statement.....of course you have every right to go out on that limb...but it seems damm shaky [8\|]

jlf1961 -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 5:29:53 PM)
As it appears to me, we have a choice, a right wing conservative America, or a Left wing liberal America. There seems to be no room for a centrist philosophy in this country.

thornhappy -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 6:30:49 PM)
What about disabled commercial workers? Unless they have private disability insurance, they're doing SSD. You can't compare disability pay to standard pay. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay. And what about disabled veterans? Do you think $28 k is fair? There's two home healthcare aids next door who each make more than that! And Jeff, it's all more the pity as far as I'm concerned.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 8:32:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Ever worked in a very large corporation, or read Business Week or Fortune Magazine? There are plenty of folks earning that kind of pay. Sure there are - plenty! However, they are productive, they have quantitative results to achieve, and they are responsible for a 'bottom line'. They also have to manage to a budget and if they run up a deficit, they can't go down in the copy room and print out more money. Nobody works for a corporation, large or small, without generating a return on that pay 'investment'. If they were working for any 'company' losing as much money as the government - they would be fired, not promoted up to another, higher paying 'G' status. This is just me,but in light of recent events....I would not want to be making that statement.....of course you have every right to go out on that limb...but it seems damm shaky [8\|] Your right Mike, incompetent government now bails out incompetent businesses. Again, I'm thinking about a world where being a failure wasn't an established benchmark for getting government money; directly as a paycheck or through a bailout, corporate or personal.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 8:42:09 PM)
quote: Why be an ass? You assume I am just another with my hand out. How wrong you are. Fine then why project comments as being directed to you, or being exclusive of consideration of you? quote: I'm not proposing anything, I asked what do the Republicans want, what do the Tea-Partiers want. Not being either a Republican or a tea-partier, I didn't respond to that. You also asked; "Which America are we to take back?" and most of the responses, including mine, were given from a personal vantage point. quote: How you turned that into Eyes wanting everything handed to her is beyond me. I didn't, I responded to the comments directed specifically to me, not understanding how a position could have been taken that I excluded anyone, and clarifying. quote: What a ugly ugly view of everything and everybody you must have. Ugly? In the eyes of the beholder, but no tinge of ugliness or beauty was attempted by me. I spoke from perspective, experience, and opinion. quote: My sincere and best wishes for your having all that you care for. Thanks! quote: I already do have success and have earned everything I have. I don't want one single thing from anyone. Believe that. An ideal position to be in! Congratulations!

Silence8 -> RE: Which America? (4/1/2010 8:44:37 PM)
Yeah, though cornering the market isn't all that great for the rest of us, even if you're technically 'winning'. The way to be a successful capitalist is to build monopolies, pure and simple. Even if the system weren't rigged to favor big money, there would still be problems.

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