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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/1/2010 3:58:37 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tightropes

It appears that a substantial number of dommes on CM who seek a male submissive want someone to make their lives "easier" and more "comfortable." They indicate a desire for a "service" submissive and state their expectation that he will cook, clean, run errands and otherwise perform tasks.

Do you believe a man isn’t really submissive if he isn’t interested in performing menial tasks as a central part of his role vis-a-vis a domme? Is there room on CM or elsewhere for a male submissive to find a domme who isn’t interested in him mainly as a means to make her life easier?


I was talking to a friend, who is also a submissive male, a couple of days ago about a similar topic.  During that conversation, I realized that the disconnect between my state of mind and that of most of the subs I've seen here is a large part -- perhaps the main part -- of the reason I have not found a partner through this site. 
 
Most of the subs I've encountered on CM seem to think this is a sex site like Adult Friend Finder or Alt.  They seem to think everyone is here for a quick hook up and some casual play.  While there are some notable exceptions, this has been an ongoing issue, particularly for male subs. 
 
That's not me.  I don't do casual play or casual sex.  Been there, done that, rocked the t-shirt, bored now.  Kinky sex is actually pretty low on my priority list.  Sure, sex of any flavor is great, but that's not what I'm looking for in a D/s dynamic. 
 
The sort of relationship I want is best described as a Lady's Companion.  I want someone who can cook for me (because I utterly FAIL in the kitchen -- no really, it isn't pretty), who will clean the house with me, because I don't mind doing it if I have company but I hate doing it alone, someone who will go shopping with me, garden with me, curl up at my feet and watch a movie with me, and at the end of the day, will submit to the wicked, sadistic things I do to her.
 
Unfortunately, most of the subs on this site, the men in particular, only want to be submissive in the bedroom.  The bedroom is the last thing on my priority list. 
 
So, to answer the OP, the answer is YES, a sub has to make service outside the bedroom a central part of his or her role, if that same sub wants to be with me.  If not, then move along and don't waste my time.  Whether or not there's a place on CM for a man who only wants to be a bedroom sub, I'm sure the site administration would say there is.  However, whether or not that bedroom sub will find what he's looking for is anyone's guess. 
 
My opinion is that if a man only wants to submit for the sake of sexual gratification without the onerous burden of the things that make up a relationship, such as doing the dishes or laundry, then he's much better off paying for the services of a professional dominatrix and should take himself off to find one, forthwith, leaving the rest of the men who welcome those responsibilities with a much better chance of finding a dominant woman without having to compete with their more selfish fellows.

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(in reply to tightropes)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/1/2010 7:52:27 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I knew a Domme friend that I would help on things. Was it about kink, or just a friend helping another on a project? I'd ask her how she wanted a task or issue to be handled, and then go a do just that. Never once did I think, or add up all the tasks to use as barter or guilty-trip-ish moment. Things were sometimes more fun, to do the chore, chat on things going on in the other's day, while she decided on the direction and I went to work.

Once, we went to the grocery, with her adorable kid, to get supper. She strolled the isles with her kid, hands held together, like there wasn't a care in the world. I followed behind slowly and quietly, taking what items were handed to me by either. Trust me, she's a great cook! Who ever said being a sub and doing a task, gets kink, NEVER, has tasted this Domme's cooking.

But I do see many such ads as the OP stated, and I am left wondering. How many of those really are by those looking for something more then just the posted ad? And those that believe that's the most they can ever expect from a sub?

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/1/2010 8:04:11 PM   
DreamyLadySnow


Posts: 359
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline 		I love when a boy asks me if I'll play with him. I ask him if he'll help me with a couple of things that I need help with (not the dishes, I can do that) first, and he says no, he just wants to play.
I tell him I can't play, as I have to do the above chores, that's why I asked for his help.
Should I draw a picture? It's frustrating.
I agree with so much of what's been said above, especially from Lady Pact.
We're not here to serve the boys, but the ladies I know all treat their boys with respect, not like full time slaves.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/3/2010 6:43:34 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not looking for someone to cook and clean and run all my errands, however I would expect a sub to help me with tasks around my house that need to be done from time to time.  I take care of myself and my own cooking and cleaning, but if he expects me to have some time for him he better be willing to pitch in.  I work full time and I'm trying to get a part time business off the ground and on top of cooking and cleaning and errands!  I understand that real life comes first, but he has to understand that too. If he wants my time he has to help me make some.  Otherwise the best I can do is an occasional email.

Oh and I do appreciate help of a heavy lifty nature.

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/3/2010 7:38:43 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In my experience there are Domme's who want relationships (first) and want to be with men of standing. This means that they don't put menial tasks and petty authorities high up on their priority lists, and they also understand that quality men don't want to be errand boys.



(Sorry for the late reply, but i've been away for awhile).

You do realize that the above statement was full of generalizations and can't possibly reflect the universe of D/s, don't you?

Many Dommes place high value on service.  Calling them "menial tasks" seems to be more indicative of how you view these tasks than how they are viewed universally in the D/s community.

Also, stating that "quality men don't want to be errand boys" is so flawed that i don't know where to begin. 

Some Dommes would say that a sub who is happy to mow her lawn, or wash her car, or pick up something at the store for her (as opposed to simply wanting Her to perform kinky sex acts on him) is a well on his way to being a "quality man".

But of course, you are going to get as many definitions of "quality man" as there are Dommes (although you clearly seem to think there is only one definition).

Personally, i do get a sense of satisfaction when i know that i have finished doing the chores in just the way She likes them done.  There is no thought of sexual gratification.  Just a overwhelming sense of pride at knowing that She is going to be very pleased at what i have done for her.  Is the service itself the basis of the relationship?  No, of course not.  But it falls into the same category as buying flowers or saying "I love you"; it can greatly enhance a D/s relationship.

Not all subs are wired the same.  i get no pleasure from being called derogatory names.  Not my kink.  i get no pleasure from CBT.  Not my kink.  i get no pleasure from toilet training.  Not my kink.  But i recognize that there are Dommes who value all of those activities, and who think that men who enjoy them are "quality men".

Finally, you said:

"Part of the reason malesubs often receive derision and lack of respect -- the image of them actually serving a woman who exploits them for money and chores"

It's not exploitation if the sub enjoys it.  Any financial Domme will tell you that there are subs who get off on giving them money.  If both parties are benefiting, how is it exploitation?  Same with chores.  How is it exploitation?

i guess i am more of a YKINMKBYKIOK kind of guy.  And to me, doing "menial tasks" for my Domme is okay.


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(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/3/2010 7:46:54 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perfectflaw00

This, in the past whenever I've helped out women (given rides, helped with school projects, Home improvement,) I've gotten more satisfaction from a heartfelt thank you than from any kink I may have. I'm still relatively new to all this but I would think that a submissive gets enjoyment from making their dominants life easier,content,relaxing at least that's my view and so doing errands/chores doesn't really seem like that big a deal.



i agree completely.  That's exactly how i am wired.  i get great satisfaction out of simply doing things that make Her happy.  Doing errands/chores is no big deal. 


_____________________________

"The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers".
-Robert Kirkman, The Walking Dead

(in reply to perfectflaw00)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/4/2010 8:39:49 AM   
MistressRoux


Posts: 118
Joined: 2/20/2010
Status: offline 		"I think there are ALL kinds of relationships out there.. those based in sex, in partnerships, deep emotional bonds, service, play and all kinds of combinations of those things. "

This is precisely what I was going to say in a far more concise form. All I'll add is that both Domme and sub should be on the same page.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/4/2010 11:32:38 PM   
azjojoba


Posts: 513
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline 		I would say that most female dominants on this site who are not pros want an errand boy. They also stipulate no sex.

My guess is that not very many of them find takers. What man in his right mind would agree to those kind of terms?

(in reply to tightropes)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 12:10:42 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		While I would never think of myself as an "errand boy",I am quite thankful for Dommes who expect service from their relationships.I would be quite an unhappy slave absent the ability and opportunity to perform those little tasks for her.Its those acts that define my relationship as one of power exchange.....remove those from the equation and what you are left with is "play with props",and yes I love my "play with props" time.....but that does not add up to a relationship...that is scening.All good on its face,but not what I want.
  A relationship encompasses much  more than "playing" and the relationship I sought,by choice was one in which She led and held the power.....that means I do everything in my power to make her life easier...to make her smile.....but to my mind there is a "barter system" at play here.I fully expect to get "paid" for my efforts.The currency I choose to be paid in is ....happiness,fulfillment and contentment.When She tells me i have pleased her or just looks at me and smiles....I'm paid in full,when she takes the flogger in Her hand...well shit,thats just the icing on the cake isn't it!

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(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 4:27:28 AM   
JhonDean


Posts: 84
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		I am not certain errand boy would best describe the requirements of those few women that have come into my life. Nor was making their life easier the reason endearments formed. In fact, neither were initial requirements and discussions of power exchange didn’t surface for quite some time. We both knew our respective positions and knew where dating dining and dancing would take us.
Subtly wondering the corridors of each other’s mind was a foreplay we spent endless hours in long before agreements were reached or a mutual respect befell us. We shared insight into the deeper or more innermost workings of our needs wants and desires and that truth became the foundation for building a meaningful relationship.
However, had a demand been made to make their lives easier or becoming their errand boy been prerequisite or verbalized at the onset none of the aforementioned would have surfaced and those special moments we shared would not have become a fond memory.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 5:24:39 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean

However, had a demand been made to make their lives easier or becoming their errand boy been prerequisite or verbalized at the onset none of the aforementioned would have surfaced and those special moments we shared would not have become a fond memory.



But now that the relationship is established, are there any "errand boy" elements to it?

i think you are assuming that the errand boy aspect is the foundation of the relationship.  In my case, it is not.  It is simply a very common aspect of the relationship that is normal and natural.  It's like watching TV together; it is a common part of everyday life that doesn't define our relationship, but it is nevertheless present.

If doing things for your Domme is a deal breaker for you, then one could argue that you have a vanilla relationship with kinky bedroom elements, and not a true 24/7 D/s dynamic.


_____________________________

"The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers".
-Robert Kirkman, The Walking Dead

(in reply to JhonDean)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 5:29:01 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

I would say that most female dominants on this site who are not pros want an errand boy. They also stipulate no sex.

My guess is that not very many of them find takers. What man in his right mind would agree to those kind of terms?



i have been involved in this type of situation on more than one occasion.  So i guess in your opinion, i am not "in my right mind".  i think that the reason for your feelings on this is that you view sex as the payoff for your service.  Some of us don't see it that way.  Don't get me wrong, sex is a wonderful reward.  But it is not the ONLY reward.  Some of us find the power exchange to be the reward.  But based on what you've said, i guess you view that as somewhat insane.


_____________________________

"The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers".
-Robert Kirkman, The Walking Dead

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 8:10:04 AM   
JhonDean


Posts: 84
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

But now that the relationship is established, are there any "errand boy" elements to it?


In reference to your question, “But now that the relationship is established, are there any "errand boy" elements to it?”

Errand boy wouldn’t even half describe the services I eagerly did and enthusiastically making her life easier would be a gross understatement but the desire to do these things for that woman was not the product of desperate longing or initial demand.
The control is what I sought, not the whip needle or shackle and the more the control became mainstream in our relationship the more the desire for it leaped to the surface. I don’t know if I can express in a meaningful or even accurate way what occurred mentally and emotionally when we expressed expectations and agreed to terms and conditions to live by but it came to pass as a result of treating each other as human beings with respect and dignity not demands before the time for demand was at hand.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 8:15:54 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Jhon, I agree that bringing it up in the first couple of e-mails would seem a bit pushy from either side, putting the cart before the horse so to speak. When my former submissive and I started dating, he mentioned fairly quickly that he wanted to be tied up and spanked. He was very deferential and helpful to me right from the outset, but it became deeper and more formalised as we got to know each other. When I was looking, if someone had brought up service submission in detail in their first 2 or 3 e-mails, I probably would have felt they were moving a bit too quickly, and worried that they were either objectifying me, or would submit to *anyone* with a pussy.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 4/5/2010 8:18:45 AM >

(in reply to JhonDean)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 8:37:39 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean


Errand boy wouldn’t even half describe the services I eagerly did and enthusiastically making her life easier would be a gross understatement but the desire to do these things for that woman was not the product of desperate longing or initial demand.
The control is what I sought, not the whip needle or shackle and the more the control became mainstream in our relationship the more the desire for it leaped to the surface. I don’t know if I can express in a meaningful or even accurate way what occurred mentally and emotionally when we expressed expectations and agreed to terms and conditions to live by but it came to pass as a result of treating each other as human beings with respect and dignity not demands before the time for demand was at hand.



i can totally understand that.  To me, the part of your message that i highlighted is really the key to having a successful D/s relationship.  Too many people start their quest for a D/s relationship with the emphasis being on the kink, rather than on the relationship.  It sounds like you are saying that the two of you focused on the relationship and added the kink later.  That sounds very wise.


_____________________________

"The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers".
-Robert Kirkman, The Walking Dead

(in reply to JhonDean)
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RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 8:04:13 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Oh, I just read something on this topic that I think really ties into the way I feel about acts of service once there actually *is* a connection: http://sexgeek.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/eroticized-labour/

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/5/2010 8:20:02 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Oh, I just read something on this topic that I think really ties into the way I feel about acts of service once there actually *is* a connection: http://sexgeek.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/eroticized-labour/


Stuff written by the receiver of "service" is unreliable. All Kings and Queens like to think their subjects are "privileged" and "energized" by tending the grounds and grooming the horses. I know its highly complex, but sometimes cleaning a toilet is nothing more than "cleaning a toilet." This becomes even more true when doing it for the 51st time.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/5/2010 8:22:04 PM >

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/6/2010 2:31:24 AM   
azjojoba


Posts: 513
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

i have been involved in this type of situation on more than one occasion.  So i guess in your opinion, i am not "in my right mind".  i think that the reason for your feelings on this is that you view sex as the payoff for your service.  Some of us don't see it that way.  Don't get me wrong, sex is a wonderful reward.  But it is not the ONLY reward.  Some of us find the power exchange to be the reward.  But based on what you've said, i guess you view that as somewhat insane.



No -- I view very few things as insane and try to avoid value judgments.

I was referring more to the profiles where a woman specifically states that she wants a sub man for doing errands, providing income, and also stipulates that there will be no sex. I just don't think most men would respond to those kinds of ads because of the one sided nature of the deal unless they figured they could lie long enough to have some kink. I'm sure there are a few men out there that don't want sex but they are rare.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/6/2010 2:46:01 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Thank you for perpetuating the myth that all men are dogs and few are interested in anything more than getting their rocks off.  Believe it or not, some males really do get more satisfaction out of embracing the whole woman, rather than just fulfilling their sexual wants.

For the record, plenty of males do respond to those of us who specifically say we aren't interested in casual sex.  Truthfully, there honestly are males out there who would like to establish a relationship, instead of just setting up a booty call.


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(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Does a male submissive have to be an errand boy? - 4/6/2010 8:31:04 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Cloudboy, remember I've been on both sides of this, and I felt it fit for my experiences both as a submissive/slave giving service, and the feedback I've received from the people who have been submissive and have done things for me. I can't read minds, obviously, but I did discuss in detail with them what they felt, what they thought, and how they reacted. Of course, there are some people who do *not* respond that way - I'd suggest that they not advertise themselves as being interested in service, whether or not it is in the context of a relationship. I don't get intensely turned on by scrubbing the toilet or shower or sink, or cleaning the litter box or cat puke obviously, but I do get a bit of a submissive rush from it, and my Master does make it more fun at times by pinching my nipples or giving me a swat or pulling my hair during a task he has set for me. My submissive playpartner doesn't have many opportunities to perform service-oriented tasks outside of play, but she has done a couple, very cheerfully, thoroughly, and enjoyed being helpful. My former submissive *really* enjoyed doing things for me, and taking care of things around the house. Heck, I've even been known to get frisky with guys I've dated when they were doing their *own* dishes or whatever!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 60
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