RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow

RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/1/2010 10:41:01 PM)
Are you in a medical marijuana state, Real???

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/1/2010 10:56:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Right on, Mike. No comparison. The operative phrase in my post was, "and do nothing." You're doing something. Big difference. K. Yeah; and for what it's worth, I did catch that in your initial post. It didn't occur to me until a few minutes ago that it may have seemed as though I thought we were disagreeing, but I was actually agreeing with you and Mike at the same time. I think Mike might have misunderstood you, but I can't speak for him.

Vendaval -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 1:22:39 AM)
Saudi Arabia is one of the few remaining countries in the world that still has public execution for criminals. Since the U.S. still has capital punishment as well, we don't have much moral ground here. After the YouTube execution, what now for death penalty? By Justin Huggler Thursday, 4 January 2007 "Around the world, capital punishment is losing ground. In 2005, Mexico and Liberia became the latest countries to abolish the death penalty, bringing the number of countries that have no death penalty to 86; in 1977 there were 16. Although thousands are still executed every year, just four countries account for 94 per cent of all executions: China, the US, Iran and Saudi Arabia. China accounts for most executions, sentencing people to death not only for murder, but for crimes including tax fraud, minor drug offences and non-violent theft. It has dropped its practice of forcing the relatives of the executed to pay for the bullet with which they are killed. In Iran and Saudi Arabia, executions are still public. Criminals are beheaded with the sword in Saudi Arabia, and hanged from cranes in Iran, where children under the age of 18 are still executed. Other countries that still commit significant numbers of executions include Vietnam, where information on how many death sentences have been carried out is classified as a state secret, and Pakistan. Now Amnesty International is warning of growing concern over the number of people being executed in Iraq. Saddam executed thousands of Iraqis during his time in power. But in the end, the video of his own brutal execution may be two and a half minutes that reopened the debate on capital punishment." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/after-the-youtube-execution-what-now-for-death-penalty-430705.html

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 3:44:48 AM)
They're very Westward looking Wahhabists? [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The Saudis aren't moderates. Wahabism is no way shape or form moderate. A real examination of the region shows the moderates, and our best hope for long temr friends, with the Sunni people of Jordan (actually the Hashemite monarch of Jordan has a reasonably good claim to the islamic holy cities and the parts of SA where most of the oil is. Supporting them over the House of Saud might lead to a short war and a lot of whining but might ultimately lead to a better situation), along with the Sunni and Christian populations of Lebanon. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Can't be done. Wahabism is antithetical to western values. Like I said better to dump the house of Saud for the Hashemites. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually the people who live in SA are mostly moderate Sunni and very western looking. Get rid of the House of Saud and get a representative government in place and it could easily become a very western part of the ME.

Politesub53 -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 3:51:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The thing is, the Saudis are the moderates in the area. They truly are our friends, and the hope is that they will climb into the current century as the world continues to shrink because they're mingling with us through the wonders of modern travel and communication and help to lead the rest of the Middle East towards a brighter future. Moderates, you have to be kidding us. Take a look at where the 9/11 bombers came from. Take a look at where Al Qaida gets much of its funding from. Take a look at Wahhibism. Take a look at the amputations for petty crime. Moderate, they are surely not.

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 4:18:29 AM)
Who is kidding who? They're at war with al-Qaeda! The actual extremists hate them! And their more fundamentalist edges can be softened so long as we stay engaged with them. Listen to yourselves, and try to think rationally. Because you feel you're morally superior you think they're "ignorant, barbaric savages" who had ought to be unmercifully killed by mobs. Their crime? They think they're morally superior, and want to painlessly execute someone who they feel represents low point for mankind. Whats wrong with that picture? quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Moderates, you have to be kidding us. Take a look at where the 9/11 bombers came from. Take a look at where Al Qaida gets much of its funding from. Take a look at Wahhibism. Take a look at the amputations for petty crime. Moderate, they are surely not.

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 4:25:58 AM)
The terrorists are at war with us. They are the ones who you in all your brilliance would replace the Saudi royal family with. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too? quote: BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction. Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement. [link=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52166-2004Jun18.html]Link These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?" Who are we to judge, right?

Moonhead -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 5:33:40 AM)
What, like the terrorists who took over Iran twenty years after the CIA deposed Mossadeq and put the Shah back in power? Or the cabal of shi'ite quislings who've been in charge of Iraq since Hussein was deposed? There are, as several people have pointed out, and you've ignored, several states in the middle east where women are allowed to drive and people aren't publicly executed for suspicion of witchcraft. Sadly, out of these only Jordan has any oil. Qatar is about the most progressive and westernised of the lot, but of course, they must be bad guys because their news network (about the only one in an Atab state that refers to Israel by name rather than as a zionist abomination) showed a few beheading videos five or six years back.

Politesub53 -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 5:48:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Who is kidding who? They're at war with al-Qaeda! The actual extremists hate them! And their more fundamentalist edges can be softened so long as we stay engaged with them. Listen to yourselves, and try to think rationally. Because you feel you're morally superior you think they're "ignorant, barbaric savages" who had ought to be unmercifully killed by mobs. Their crime? They think they're morally superior, and want to painlessly execute someone who they feel represents low point for mankind. Whats wrong with that picture? quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Moderates, you have to be kidding us. Take a look at where the 9/11 bombers came from. Take a look at where Al Qaida gets much of its funding from. Take a look at Wahhibism. Take a look at the amputations for petty crime. Moderate, they are surely not. Since you quoted me, I have never claimed to be morally superior to Muslims or any other Religion. I must say it is a bit rich coming from you, given your posting history. lets make this quite clear, some of those near the top of the House of Saud have backed AQ, there is no doubt on that. Sure OBL wanted to see the whole dynasty brought down. Your claim that SA is moderate, given the human rights record, is laughable. I just wonder if you would be posting the same if it was a US citizen about to be executed. Somehow I doubt it.

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 5:52:52 AM)
Heh, funny you should point to Iran, the poster child for withdrawing support for a moderate monarchy. Now in Iran instead of the former bright, energetic and vibrant country full of educated pro-Western citizens we have insane mullahs building nuclear bombs and buying missiles to put them on while cackling with mad laughter. Something many Westerners fail to understand is that to most Muslims, Satan is very real. And the way they see it this fortune teller is dealing directly with the devil and peddling a fate worse than death to all his victims, which would be eternal damnation. In their eyes the man is worse than a serial killer, they see this as protecting their children. To them it isn't some backward idea, its the only right thing to do. And as someone pointed out earlier they are willing to discuss it, and perhaps take a more moderate stance, which is far more than we could possibly hope for if the true radicals were in power there.

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 5:56:48 AM)
Its good to see you distancing yourself from the likes of panda and mike then. Bully for you. and their human rights record is on account of their religion, all of the people feel the same way about it as their government does. Our best hope is to stay engaged with them and keep the communication of ideas flowing. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Since you quoted me, I have never claimed to be morally superior to Muslims or any other Religion. I must say it is a bit rich coming from you, given your posting history. lets make this quite clear, some of those near the top of the House of Saud have backed AQ, there is no doubt on that. Sure OBL wanted to see the whole dynasty brought down. Your claim that SA is moderate, given the human rights record, is laughable. I just wonder if you would be posting the same if it was a US citizen about to be executed. Somehow I doubt it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 6:03:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Its good to see you distancing yourself from the likes of panda and mike then. Bully for you. and their human rights record is on account of their religion, all of the people feel the same way about it as their government does. Our best hope is to stay engaged with them and keep the communication of ideas flowing. I wasnt distancing myself from anyone, just so the record is clear, I was just answering your post. Religion or not, you cant call the Saudis moderate. Your stance here is completely polar with your views of Muslims states you dont see as "friends".

LadyEllen -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 6:30:28 AM)
The latest by the way is that the execution has been postponed. Friday, after prayers, is when most executions take place so hopefully there is at least a one week stay and more hopefully this is a sign that the Saudis are listening to the concerns expressed worldwide over this matter and will look to another resolution. E

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:08:17 AM)
The Saudi King is moderate, why do you think Obama was inspecting his royal toes on his last visit there. Its al-Qaeda that is extreme. And though you feel you've the wisdom to judge, you're woefully ignorant as to what my views are of the various Islamic states. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I wasnt distancing myself from anyone, just so the record is clear, I was just answering your post. Religion or not, you cant call the Saudis moderate. Your stance here is completely polar with your views of Muslims states you dont see as "friends".

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:10:58 AM)
Its because they are engaged with the rest of the world - which is leaps ahead of the true extremists in the region. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The latest by the way is that the execution has been postponed. Friday, after prayers, is when most executions take place so hopefully there is at least a one week stay and more hopefully this is a sign that the Saudis are listening to the concerns expressed worldwide over this matter and will look to another resolution. E

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:18:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Something many Westerners fail to understand is that to most Muslims, Satan is very real. And the way they see it this fortune teller is dealing directly with the devil and peddling a fate worse than death to all his victims, which would be eternal damnation. In their eyes the man is worse than a serial killer, they see this as protecting their children. To them it isn't some backward idea, its the only right thing to do. And as someone pointed out earlier they are willing to discuss it, and perhaps take a more moderate stance, which is far more than we could possibly hope for if the true radicals were in power there. Hey, Sanity! Since you pretended not to notice this when I posted it the first time, let's try again. Will you answer this time, or weasel away from it again? quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I don't feel like I'm god-like enough to judge them "ignorant, barbaric savages" like you and your ilk. I see them as human beings who could possibly use some enlightenment, just like me. How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too? quote: BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction. Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement. Link These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?" Who are we to judge, right?

Moonhead -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:36:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Its because they are engaged with the rest of the world - which is leaps ahead of the true extremists in the region. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The latest by the way is that the execution has been postponed. Friday, after prayers, is when most executions take place so hopefully there is at least a one week stay and more hopefully this is a sign that the Saudis are listening to the concerns expressed worldwide over this matter and will look to another resolution. E Obama has to kiss arse to make sure they keep selling your country oil. What's your excuse for brown nosing them?

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:43:37 AM)
Whats there to answer, panda? You bolded, italicized and underlined my point for me by showcasing who the true radicals are in Saudi Arabia, and who is doing battle against them in that post. I suppose I could have responded to it to thank you though. quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Hey, Sanity! Since you pretended not to notice this when I posted it the first time, let's try again. Will you answer this time, or weasel away from it again? quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda How amazingly tolerant of you. I like this "new Sanity." I presume you feel the same way about these Saudi head-chopper-offers, too? quote: BERLIN, June 18 -- Islamic radicals in Saudi Arabia on Friday beheaded an American contractor whom they kidnapped six days earlier, and in a defiant statement on the Internet pledged more attacks on Americans. Hours later, Saudi security forces reported they had shot dead the leader of the group that asserted responsibility for the abduction. Johnson was the third American in less than two weeks to meet a violent death in Riyadh. His kidnapping, the first of a Westerner in Saudi Arabia, and the manner of his killing marked a new kind of assault on the American presence in the oil-producing kingdom. "The infidel got his fair treatment," the group said in a statement. Link These guys are OK too, then, right? Same thing with these guys? Just "human beings who could possibly use a little enlightenment?" Who are we to judge, right?

Kirata -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:44:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Obama has to kiss arse to make sure they keep selling your country oil. What's your excuse for brown nosing them? I wouldn't argue that this isn't a factor, but frankly I think the Saudis will sell their oil to anybody with money. I suspect our relatively cordial relations with them have more to do with our analysis of the geopolitical situation in the Middle East. K.

Sanity -> RE: Our Friends, The Saudis, Will Behead A Tourist Tomorrow (4/2/2010 7:46:48 AM)
I respect them as human beings because its the right thing to do. Its you compassionate leftists who are constantly running about trying to inform us how superior you are to all the ignorant savages you feel you're surrounded by, isn't it. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Obama has to kiss arse to make sure they keep selling your country oil. What's your excuse for brown nosing them?

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