RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 6:40:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Sorry, Michael.  We may be disagreeing on this one.

The issue isn't ending topping from the bottom.  It's not allowing it to ever begin.



This.



GraciousLady -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 6:48:06 AM)

If a sub wishes to top from the bottom with me they will find they are doing it all by themselves. Why you may ask? Topping from the bottom is just another form of drama and I do not do drama. Besides, we are all adults and know why we are here. If your not adult enough to know what your doing or want I will be moving on.



UniqueRaven -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 6:52:16 AM)

i think many (not all) submissives "top from the bottom" when they're struggling with not being effectively led, or utilized.

A submissive just left to her own devices is often not a pretty sight - the mental spinning she goes through just trying to figure out what will make her Dom happy and just lead and use her again can become a pretty fabulous mess in short often.

That's why when a Dom pulls out the whole "you're topping from the bottom" statement on her it actually hurts so much - because all she wants to figure out is how to have him be happy and control her and lead her in the way that she so needs. She's in a situation where she's being forced to find her own solution, and it's tough.

i'm not discussing here being bratty for attention. That's a whole different thread. What i am discussing are the subs who have their heart firmly wrapped around their Dom and don't know anything else to do.



allthatjaz -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 7:00:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

this is true - but dont you think sometimes its also because a sub or slave has definite ideas sometimes of how she wants to be dominated and when that doesnt happen they end up topping from the bottom.

i knew a sub who just couldnt hand over control, no matter how much she believed she could. in the end it was pretty apparent that she felt she knew more than her Master and kept on trying to direct their dynamic. 

i just wonder sometimes whether the whole handing over all the control and switching off that little voice is always manageable all of the time for everyone - im sure it isnt.  the difference is that some subs find their little voice compelling and other subs have enough trust in their D to keep it hushed up.  but i dont think its always the fault of the D



If a submissive has ideas about how she wishes to be dominated and lets face it, of course she does, she needs to find a compatible partner that wants to dominate a woman the way she fantasizes about it. If he doesn't meet those very basic requirements then what the hell is she doing submitting to him?
I'm sure you will agree that the early stages in a relationship are the crucial times for gathering that deep understanding of minds. He has to work out if he can press those triggers or even if he wants to press those triggers and she has to feel a need and desire to submit to his words. If that isn't in place from the early stages then its unlikely to fall into place somewhere down the line. False expectations are a result of lots of fantasy and little communication.

Believing you can submit is a desire to submit. Fighting against that submission is not topping from the bottom but fighting with yourself. Perhaps its being overly fussy but I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with that. There will be a man out there that can bring out her submission. Weather she will ever meet him is another question! In the mean time she will have to put up with mismatches and again and again she will probably be wrongly accused of topping from the bottom.




RCdc -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 7:05:57 AM)

This.
quote:

The issue isn't ending topping from the bottom.  It's not allowing it to ever begin.

With a lot of this
quote:

Of course there are a lot of idiots who can't tell the difference between a bottom and a submissive and for some reason think that being a bottom makes one a submissive, so we have this stupid phrase that might better be expressed as "being the dominant one in the relationship when you are expected to be the submissive" but that takes too long to type and generally people whining about how hard it is to find someone to suck their cock on demand don't want to type all that out.

And also this.
quote:

In the mean time she will have to put up with mismatches and again and again she will probably be wrongly accused of topping from the bottom.


the.dark
(.totallyunoriginalandintoquotingothersince1970.)




allthatjaz -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 7:12:52 AM)

In a club situation I quite like a bit of power exchange with a one off player but then thats just for fun.

If my submissive suddenly got all lippy and blatantly tried to push triggers in me I would do a few things.
1. I would be having a serious discussion with her about what was going on and I would expect answers.
2. I would look inwardly. Have I not been my usual self? Have I been neglecting her? I would also question if I had lost her head.
3. I would look at how I/we were going to resolve this and I would be looking at that very seriously.
To be honest I wouldn't think of it as topping from the bottom. I would think of it as a problem that needed sorting out.




lovingpet -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 7:28:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Silly, silly notion this topping from the bottom is.  I am in charge so much as my partner allows.  If he wishes to make that leash shorter, all he's got to do is yank.

lovingpet


That's a nice warm fuzzy sentiment but the line in bold generally goes the other way. As far as the OP is concerned - he's right that if the dominant puts his foot down he won't have to topped from the bottom anymore. It may be a while before he is topping anyone at all but he won't have to worry about being topped from the bottom. All chest thumping aside, the submissive is essentially in control.



While it may be true that I have a narrow set of options available to me as the submissive partner, that doesn't equate to me being in control.  My limitations (not limits) will set some parameters for our relationship out of simple necessity.  My limits do not exist anymore in the sense that my partner knows what I can handle, what I can't, and how to help me get past things if he so desires.  My past, my emotional temperament, and even personality will bring in some limiting element.  Then again, he has all these factors infusing the relationship as well.  I am the one that will be more likely placed in the position of overcoming these things.  My partner may do so for his part if he chooses, but he does not necessarily have to unless it is something doing direct harm to the relationship.

My options are rather simple.  I can politely and respectfully voice my opinion, concerns, difficulties, fears, etc. and accept how he chooses to resolve those or not.  I can disobey intentionally and assume the responsibility for doing so regardless of how those cards may fall.  I can leave the relationship if it is of that great of importance.  The only option that preserves all the integrity of the relationship and develops it further is to submit.  Anything else is at least showing an area of lack of trust if nothing else.  There's nothing necessarily wrong with that.  Trust is ever unfolding.  The key here is the fact that in a power dynamic, if there is no dynamic or if it is eroded, then there is nothing to control.  I cannot control a power dynamic.  The only things I can control are myself and my decision to continue the relationship already in place.

On a side note:  I agree LP.  If adequate control is steadfast from the beginning, then there is no issue in the first place.  Further, I think we often forget that choosing not to control something is still exerting a form of control.  I've said it before and I'll say it before.  There is no topping from the bottom.  Thinking makes it so.

lovingpet



sirsholly -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 8:34:33 AM)

quote:

Anytime the sub is accused of this either there's insecurity on the side of the dominant or there's just a basic incompatibility
i agree.

The D/s relationship hubby and i have keeps getting pushed further and further into the bedroom.
Common sense, and the desire to make life easier, dictates we defer to each other when it comes to certain things. Health issues are left up to me, as are the daily ins/outs of running a home/farm. Finances are strictly Jims, as are any major expenses, etc. Family decisions are agreed upon equally.

One of the reasons this works for us is because Jim is secure in his role. He doesn't feel threatened by my strong take-charge personality, nor does he see it as topping from the bottom.



Missokyst -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:04:51 AM)

Dominating from the sub? Submitting from the dom? The idea of changing the wording because top and bottom are mostly used from a play context is too complex, particularly as there have even been books written about it.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

From what I understand, the terms 'top' and 'bottom' are used exclusively to deal with BDSM or fetish activity - in other words there are no power dynamics involved.




Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:10:54 AM)

FR........this is something that usually happens to guys who will do anything to get laid.[:D]



SimplyMichael -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:27:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Inform the top/dom that in order for you to top from the bottom...they have to...DRUMROLL PLEASE...they have to be bottoming from the top.


Wow, this thread got wierd. It was more of a sarcastic one liner than deep philosophy. I was mocking those who call it topping from the bottom if their submissive so much as utters an opinion.

As for what is topping/bottoming, in the old days...everyone called themselves tops and bottoms for the most part, dominant and submissive are reletively recent additions to the bdsm lexicon. Just glance at any of the leather books, such as The LeatherMan's Handbook, they call everyone S or Ms...Sadists or Masochists. In Dossie's books which came out later, it was all about Tops and Bottoms.

And my cat sits politely at my feet till I give a hand gesture and only then does he jump in my lap.



Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:36:02 AM)

D/s has become a faddish way to "enoble the lifestyle" in the past decade or so. I actually find it rather silly.



jbcurious -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:39:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

D/s has become a faddish way to "enoble the lifestyle" in the past decade or so. I actually find it rather silly.



Does that mean that you believe that some one who is not a masochist doesn´t belong in the lifestyle?



Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:41:35 AM)

No,it just means they need to get the fuck over thinking of themselves as "the default".
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

D/s has become a faddish way to "enoble the lifestyle" in the past decade or so. I actually find it rather silly.



Does that mean that you believe that some one who is not a masochist doesn´t belong in the lifestyle?




jbcurious -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:43:11 AM)

Sorry... you lost me



Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:45:16 AM)

Think of it this way. Why does everyone have to qualify as Dom, sub, switch? Some people have absolutely no interest in power exchange beyond scene fun.

So why insist on labeling them with terms and cliches that have no bearing on thier atual propensities?



jbcurious -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:49:31 AM)

Thanks for clarifying that... I get you now.



Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:52:24 AM)

So in my case-not being terribly worried over my "dominance".....I would just say something like,"I'm not feeling very excited by your ideas-can you suggest something else?"

"Would you rather do something else, like play checkers?"

Seriously-if it becomes a freaking chore-why bother?

Just because the Jone's do it-doesn't make it WORTH doing.



SimplyMichael -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 9:59:56 AM)

Smut,

I get exactly what you mean even though I think we are rather different. I am monogamous but San Francisco and my local scene is quite poly. For years I didn't top much at all and never casually. I backed into this from being controlling, that was my only real kink...and I had to learn to be kinky. None of which is "normal" and people look at you wierd, as if you were friends with Domi or something.



Smutmonger -> RE: How to end Topping from the Bottom (4/6/2010 10:03:05 AM)

I questioned herd mentalities from a very young age. I feel like a goat in a world of sheep at times. I like to kick at them when they start pressing in. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Smut,

I get exactly what you mean even though I think we are rather different. I am monogamous but San Francisco and my local scene is quite poly. For years I didn't top much at all and never casually. I backed into this from being controlling, that was my only real kink...and I had to learn to be kinky. None of which is "normal" and people look at you wierd, as if you were friends with Domi or something.



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