One foot out of the door. (Full Version)

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allthatjaz -> One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 1:26:48 AM)

This topic has been inspired through a conversation with a friend.
That conversation was about people in this lifestyle threatening to leave their relationship if the sub didn’t come up to shape.
We hear a lot of ‘keep getting that wrong and your out’, ‘Not submissive enough and your out’ and so on.
This topic isn’t really aimed at people who meet once a week for a bit of D/s BDSM interaction.
Its based on a full on relationship, a couple that are going at this long term or with the intention of long term.
I know that we recently had a topic titled 'One Strike and your out' or something like that! and that veered very much towards what 'one strike' actually meant. This is more about trusting and building a relationship under the shadow of being thrown away if you don't live up to D/s expectations.

Can a sub wholly trust her man if she sees him keeping one foot out of the door?
People fall in love, what then? is the importance of her submission more important than your relationship? You may say it is but if you are really in love then I personally find that very hard to believe. Is it her submission alone that made you fall in love or is there a thousand other things about her that if submission failed you would still have 999 things to celebrate? If her submission hit problems or just needed a break, would you have one foot out of the door?

My ten cents worth: If a relationship is based purely on a D/s dynamic and not allowed to grow beyond that, if that D/s dynamic dwindles then there is little left but then there was never much there in the first place.

Any relationship starts with roots. Those initial roots may be based around D/s and from those roots grows a firm stem. The stem then grows branches in many directions and those branches eventually blossom.
When I see ‘relationships’ with a whole load of trust but ‘one foot out of the door’ I just see a stem that has no branches.




sunshinemiss -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 3:47:19 AM)

Hey jazz,
While it may be silly, I really love my word inspire. Look, if the DOM or whatever runs the relationship, it is the DOM's responsibility to get the sub to shape up rather than threatening to ship the lovely out.

Your analogy is a good one. It's all a process. At some point in the process one or another person usually finds that from this point on there be dragons and decides they don't want to or can't face that. It's no longer a good fit.

What are we in high school saying the BDSM version of if you loved me, you'd let me? meh.

best,
sunshine



SomethingCatchy -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 3:51:27 AM)

Hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me, and I see any human being willing to judge another human being like that as a hypocrite. Who's to say one persons 'god complex' wasn't the entire reason the submissive failed to live up to their expectations?



allthatjaz -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 5:10:49 AM)

I, just like anyone else have opinions of things. I think thoughts, I ponder, wonder and look at things with the full vision that I have. I have a right to an opinion and if that opinion is hypocritical then so be it!
I wasn't talking about my relationship being better than anyone elses. I was talking about the strength of a relationship that incorporates the things we do.
Take DS away from my relationship and I/We still have an awful lot going for us. In other words D/s may be incorporated into our relationship but its only a part of it. Even if it rocks my world 24/7 its still only a part of it.
Could I live without D/s? If it meant keeping my relationship then hell yes because the importance of my partner is far more important than what I believe I need out of it.
If things change then we will incorporate that change because this relationship goes beyond who is the chief and who is the squaw.

I was not talking about a relationship failing for any other reason. Lets take a couple that are really big on D/s. She's the slave and he's the Master. In between all of that life goes on. Then they go through a whole heap of change. The D/s dynamic doesn't work like it used to. Is he going to threaten her that if she doesn't pull herself together he will be off? or do they change together and look at the bigger picture of what they have and what they may have in the future? Do they work together or does he make demands with threats included? Is the relationship about them or is it about D/s?



Smutmonger -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 7:09:43 AM)

Doms are often pussy-ass and passive agressive too. It's best they DO leave in most cases-if that is all they can do.




sunshinemiss -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 7:13:05 AM)

Hey Jazzy (is it ok to call you that - it seems all hip and cool [:)] )

Now I understand your question a bit better. Depending on the level of the relationship and what not. I suppose how much we are invested in the relationship determines how much we will tolerate.

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that there are plans set in place for leaving. It wouldn't feel good to me. But on the other hand, I don't want someone to stay because they feel obligated. Relationships are full of ebb and flow. Nothing is ever 50/50 for any length of time. Sometimes I'm 70 and you're 30 and sometimes you're 85 and I'm 15. What level of energy is he putting in the relationship if his foot is out the door anyway?

Best,
sunshine



Frankseas -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 7:51:54 AM)

Communicate, Talk and Listen. Most of all listen.....really listen to your partner. Understand what they are saying, if your not sure ask them. If you feel they are keeping something from you, then it might be time to look for some one better?

We are all humans with emotions, feelings as well as too many thoughts, good ones as well as bad. We are social at times and sometimes we are best left alone, until we feel better.

But some one who pulls a childish act like threatening to leave is not worth staying for. Be they Master/slave or other types of couples. A "Budding" relationship can only grow from Honesty, communication(open) and a bulding of trust in each other. For with Trust all things are possible for a couple![;)]



afkarr -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:08:26 AM)

I see a so- called Dom who continually threatens to leave because his sub isn't "sub enough" or makes too many "mistakes" as the kinky version of any vanila guy who continually tells his SO how lucky she is too have him because no one else will, she's too (fill in the blank- fat/ugly/stupid etc). Neither one is in a relationship that is based on mutual caring, understanding, or trust. They are merely insecure creatures who seek to boost their own sense of importance and self worth by dragging down another; and laying the blame for any shortcomings or failures at anothers feet.

A real Dom, on the other hand, will objectively evaluate mutual compatability and determine whether a submissive is a good match for him before committing to a full time relationship. He will also not feel threatened by a submissive who does the same. Sometimes people and their needs,interests, and personal circumstances change in such a manner that's it's best for everyone involved to part ways. A real dominate will understand that, accept that both parties contributed to the situation, and move on as cordially as possible.



DesFIP -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:24:18 AM)

Here, the relationship comes first. Both of us make compromises upon occasion that aren't what either of us want, but are best for the relationship.

But this is a full relationship; we live together, raise our various offspring, take the dog to the vet etc. If all the relationship has is the d/s then it won't survive a snag in the road.



Missokyst -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:38:14 AM)

This is the crux of it for me. I think people claim to be in love too quickly on both sides of the kneel. If you graft limbs on a tree and not all the roots are healthy than it will never been strong and it may eventually die. Love is beyond passion. When the relationship is hot and new it is easy to overlook the things that are basic incompatibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
People fall in love, what then? is the importance of her submission more important than your relationship? You may say it is but if you are really in love then I personally find that very hard to believe. Is it her submission alone that made you fall in love or is there a thousand other things about her....




Sanguinarian -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:38:29 AM)

My advice for Dominants like that:

Shove them the rest of the way out, and lock the door behind them.



leadership527 -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 9:26:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
This topic has been inspired through a conversation with a friend.
That conversation was about people in this lifestyle threatening to leave their relationship if the sub didn’t come up to shape.

*chuckles* Well, I'm in the one-strike crowd so I guess I'll comment. For me (yes, me me me, not for you or anyone else), being my slave means total obedience. The moment she knowingly defies me, then the word "total" no longer applies. So I would then no longer refer to her as my slave. Within the context of our relationship, that's more of a dictionary adjustment than anything else. I mean seriously, there are a ton of ways for Carol to address a concern/issue/whatever with me that do not involve defiance. You know, something akin to, "Hey Master, I think you're being an idiot here. Have you thought about..." So I have no remorse about treating defiance as I do. It's also important to remember that this has nothing to do with how much I love her, etc. Our "love dynamic" would not be seriously harmed by perturbations in our authority dynamic. For me, it's mostly my engineer's brain calling a spade a spade.

From a different direction entirely, we had that recent "who actually has the power?" thread wherein I learned that "the person who has the power is the one who is most ready to leave." This smacks of the cold war doctrine of mutually assured destruction and I choose to not think of my marriage as a cold war.

quote:

Can a sub wholly trust her man if she sees him keeping one foot out of the door?

In my opinion, an awful lot of folks on these boards toss around the statement "wholly trust" without a lot of thought. I think that statement typically appears more as a bit of romantic finery than a statement of fact... as graphically demonstrated in the "would you strip in the restaurant" thread and a whole host of other threads wherein boundaries are set on relationship. For ME (and not for anyone else), the placement of a boundary is pretty clear evidence that the sub in question does not trust the dominant in that area. For instance, Carol is monogamous to the core. Yet she does not limit me on whether or not I sleep with another woman, whether I command her to sleep with or perform sexually for another man, or whether I invite one or more additional people into our marriage. She trusts me to manage the situation, our marriage, and her so that if any or all of these events came to pass, then it would by definition be good for her... whether or not she can envision how that could possibly be right now.

quote:

My ten cents worth: If a relationship is based purely on a D/s dynamic and not allowed to grow beyond that, if that D/s dynamic dwindles then there is little left but then there was never much there in the first place. Any relationship starts with roots. Those initial roots may be based around D/s and from those roots grows a firm stem. The stem then grows branches in many directions and those branches eventually blossom. When I see ‘relationships’ with a whole load of trust but ‘one foot out of the door’ I just see a stem that has no branches.
I'm not sure I think that's fair. I have a key and necessary component in my relationship too. I need Carol to love me. If she stopped loving me, the foundation of my relationship would be done with no matter how many other things were wonderful. I see no difference between that and someone else saying, "I need an authority dynamic".



allthatjaz -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 3:13:50 PM)

Is the key word here is 'relationship'?

I think "relationship" is where the couple integrate life within the D/s. Its so much more than barking or obeying orders. They have stuff to stick their days together. they accept they are real, have jobs, family, friends, bins to empty etc.

Those without a "relationship" will meet to play D and s and part when they are done. They don't have the bits of life that fill the gaps and make it a relationship. Or they are in denial, unable to accept responsibility, commitment, the love of another. Even if they are living it 24/7.

By playing the 24/7 dom and threatening to chuck her out if she fucks up he saves himself having to show any commitment. He saves the agony of responsibility. He denies the relationship to protect himself.



SirRussellP -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 3:17:31 PM)

I doubt that any relationship of mine could survive with the D/s element in it, I expect that life will throw plenty of curve balls but that if we believe in and trust each other it will survive.  When things happen it is worth discussing how each person is feeling and how it has effected them, their view of the relationship. 

I tell a potential slave that release is the worst punishment I know of.  When I accept her I will also watch her for signs that she is losing interest, faith or trust.  Some of life curve balls show us that our wants, needs and expectations really were close but not a good enough match.  When that happens release should happen and it should hurt both of us.



SimplyMichael -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 7:25:51 PM)

Look at society and relationships in general. People have pisspoor communication and relationship skills in general and sadly, bdsm appeals to a lot of people who are even more dysfunctional that average society. The stereotypes of what D/s and M/s are about SEEM to offer an easy way out of dealing with an inability to form solid relationships.

Don't believe me, read the boards for a day or two...




fragilepieces -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 7:46:43 PM)

jaz,


I've been fan of your posts for quite some time and I just want to say YOU ARE AWESOME AND AMAZING!

In response to your post I agree the relationship as a whole---should come before the D/s part of it. What if one partner were unable to take part in kinky sex---what if age related illnesses should control the submissive rather than the Dominant for example alzheimers yet the Dom is still clear in his senses---after 20 years does he say, "okay you can't remember my name anymore or for that matter remember what street we live on total disobedience I'm out!" I'd personally want to be comfortable knowing that he cared enough about ME as a person not as a submissive to stick around and see it through.



leadership527 -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:02:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
By playing the 24/7 dom and threatening to chuck her out if she...

Well honestly, I'd toss Carol out in a heart beat the moment she looked at me funny. The only rub is that I don't have a clue where in the world I would find another one like her.



Elisabella -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 8:09:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Is the key word here is 'relationship'?

I think "relationship" is where the couple integrate life within the D/s. Its so much more than barking or obeying orders. They have stuff to stick their days together. they accept they are real, have jobs, family, friends, bins to empty etc.

Those without a "relationship" will meet to play D and s and part when they are done. They don't have the bits of life that fill the gaps and make it a relationship. Or they are in denial, unable to accept responsibility, commitment, the love of another. Even if they are living it 24/7.

By playing the 24/7 dom and threatening to chuck her out if she fucks up he saves himself having to show any commitment. He saves the agony of responsibility. He denies the relationship to protect himself.


Well I think there's a difference between "fucking up" and denying the D/s element of the relationship. I'd see the 'fuck up' as akin to an argument in a vanilla relationship, regrettable but able to be worked past. Changing the D/s dynamic though is different.

A relationship, at its foundation, is not about sex or cuddling or sharing a bed or even about loving each other - the foundation of a relationship is how the people in it relate to one another. If there is a change in that, that type of relationship is over, even if the two are still a couple. Whether they choose to relate to each other on a different level and forge a new relationship, or go their separate ways, depends on the individuals involved, but once the manner of relating to each other has been changed, you can't say you're still in the same 'relationship' just because you come home to each other.



Wolf2Bear -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 10:28:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Is the key word here is 'relationship'?

I think "relationship" is where the couple integrate life within the D/s. Its so much more than barking or obeying orders. They have stuff to stick their days together. they accept they are real, have jobs, family, friends, bins to empty etc.

Those without a "relationship" will meet to play D and s and part when they are done. They don't have the bits of life that fill the gaps and make it a relationship. Or they are in denial, unable to accept responsibility, commitment, the love of another. Even if they are living it 24/7.

By playing the 24/7 dom and threatening to chuck her out if she fucks up he saves himself having to show any commitment. He saves the agony of responsibility. He denies the relationship to protect himself.



Well stated and you hit it spot on.



SailingBum -> RE: One foot out of the door. (4/8/2010 10:41:42 PM)

Im not sure I follow your logic.  The divorce rate in the US is 50%.  So obviously there are a quite a few folks with one foot out the door weather it's kink <sex> or interpersonal related it's difficult to say.  To me it's more like at some point the bull shit factor overwhelms the fun factor...  Then Im off like a prom dress.

BadOne



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