quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Do you think Churchill,a rabid anti-communist,had he been in power in Sept .'39 might have possibly been of a like mind.
Not that England declaring war on Russia and Germany wouldn't have been damm near suicidal

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I heard somewhere that Stalin killed millions more people than Hitler ever did. What a Bahstard!

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Do you think Churchill,a rabid anti-communist,had he been in power in Sept .'39 might have possibly been of a like mind.
Not that England declaring war on Russia and Germany wouldn't have been damm near suicidal

No. At the outbreak of WW1 there was bewilderment in some quarters that Britain could fight a war on the side of Russia against Germany - the Germans were seen as like minded and the Russians barbarians - 20 years later things hadn't changed much - except the Germans' political system. 

So - convenience alone dictated that the USSR was an ally during the war - not that it started that way - they had a pact with the Germans when Britain declared war on Germany - but yeah you're right on one thing - as soon as the war was over the British Government saw the USSR as the threat.

What's probably not so well known is that there was a certain amount of sympathy among the British people from the 1920s - 1940s - much anti-establishment sentiment among the working classes - but the excesses of the Soviet regime simply weren't known then - the stories filtered through in the 1950s.

And - protecting the sovereignty of Poland? Not likely. Britain simply couldn't have one dominant power on the contintent - same as WW1 - as that would have meant Germany controlling the Northern coast and the ports - which would have compromised our trading routes. Napoleon's France wasn't that far in the distance - and the government had the experience of what that meant for us.

In terms of the Soviet actions in Poland - violence was an accepted tool in the Soviet state's arsenal - it was conceived in violence and functioned in violence. There was a lot of state sanctioned and controlled ethnic cleansing all over the place - with people being transported and 'repatriated' from and to various parts of the Soviet Union - with loads of people just being murdered along the way or shipped off to some labour camp. I'm not sure that people realise just what a mad/ruthless/paranoid state that the Soviet Union was. And there's a popular misconception that the wheels came off with Stalin - it didn't - Lenin and Trotsky were equally ruthless and paranoid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

power and money

same shit different day.

what gives britain the authority to determine what goes on in other countries.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

power and money

same shit different day.

what gives britain the authority to determine what goes on in other countries.

In theory - not a lot.

In practice - I suppose we have certain interests - and we're pretty convincing when we need people to help us - British use of intelligence/propaganda/misinformation is pretty impressive.

But I suppose what goes around comes around - and whereas the British Government convinced the US government it was a good idea in WW1 - the US Government convinced the British Government that Iraq was a good idea. Like it or not Real0ne - the US and Britain have had similar interests for a hundred years now - and not just in 'money' terms - but in areas such scientific development and research where the US leads the world and Britain is second only to the US - which ain't bad for a small country off the North West coast of Europe. It just seems that our two governments have a similar outlook on the world - so naturally come to arrangements. Now I'd agree that governments and people are two different things - most people here wouldn't have a clue where somewhere like Idaho is and probably haven't even heard of it apart from unless it's been mentioned on television - and generally know nothing of the US and its people and care little. But governments tend to look for like minded governments to team up with - whereas people are more concerned with where the next pint is coming from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Do you think Churchill,a rabid anti-communist,had he been in power in Sept .'39 might have possibly been of a like mind.
Not that England declaring war on Russia and Germany wouldn't have been damm near suicidal

No. At the outbreak of WW1 there was bewilderment in some quarters that Britain could fight a war on the side of Russia against Germany - the Germans were seen as like minded and the Russians barbarians - 20 years later things hadn't changed much - except the Germans' political system. 

So - convenience alone dictated that the USSR was an ally during the war - not that it started that way - they had a pact with the Germans when Britain declared war on Germany - but yeah you're right on one thing - as soon as the war was over the British Government saw the USSR as the threat.

What's probably not so well known is that there was a certain amount of sympathy among the British people from the 1920s - 1940s - much anti-establishment sentiment among the working classes - but the excesses of the Soviet regime simply weren't known then - the stories filtered through in the 1950s.

And - protecting the sovereignty of Poland? Not likely. Britain simply couldn't have one dominant power on the contintent - same as WW1 - as that would have meant Germany controlling the Northern coast and the ports - which would have compromised our trading routes. Napoleon's France wasn't that far in the distance - and the government had the experience of what that meant for us.

In terms of the Soviet actions in Poland - violence was an accepted tool in the Soviet state's arsenal - it was conceived in violence and functioned in violence. There was a lot of state sanctioned and controlled ethnic cleansing all over the place - with people being transported and 'repatriated' from and to various parts of the Soviet Union - with loads of people just being murdered along the way or shipped off to some labour camp. I'm not sure that people realise just what a mad/ruthless/paranoid state that the Soviet Union was. And there's a popular misconception that the wheels came off with Stalin - it didn't - Lenin and Trotsky were equally ruthless and paranoid.

Forget about not declaring war on Russia as an example of expediancy(or whatever other term you wish to lend it) the real betrayal and perhaps the most bitter pill Churchill was ever forced to swallow was the carving up of Europe which led to Poland being behind what Churchill later dubbed an "Iron Curtain"...to add salt to the wound the knowledge(or lack thereof ) of the fate of the Polish government in exile which was returned to Poland soil ,and Soviet control shortly after the war.Their fate was both predictable....and ,it seems to me highly avoidable had their been soem backbone showm by the postwar English Government.

Still no tommie...what a shame.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh well its in the wise words of the constitutors that we should not make treaties more than we absolutely have to and I am still not satisfied that england has no interest in the us.

Especially when the queen made changes to our social security back in 97.  Thats part of parlimentary record.

Combine that with most of our taxes being funneled out of the country and I do mean even property taxes.

Then when you notice that most of our prezzies were brit origin there is a larger picture here than meets the nake d eye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I think you lack an understanding of the ruthlessness of your own government. The US government has ran this world for 80 years now - and despite claims that US power is diminishing - they will continue to run this world into the forseeable future. The reason why they have Britain as an ally - and the British understand that they will play second fiddle to a larger nation - is nothing to do with the Queen. It's a way of thinking - British and American philosophy and political philosophy is similar. What the French and Germans call the Anglo-Saxon way of doing things. And it all stems from the way we think rather than some misconceived notion that the Queen is phoning the White House and having Obama knock up a few bagels before personally delivering them to the Queen in time for morning tea.

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Why is everyone so upset for what happened 60 years ago, but don't seem to care that Iran might soon have a nuke.??

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Why is everyone so upset for what happened 60 years ago, but don't seem to care that Iran might soon have a nuke.??

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Its really a small world consisting of only a couple entities.  You have the aristocracy aka (the elite) who want to maintain power the military and the banksters and its all bout insuring no one gets to big to go up again the "gang".