Timing is everything.

Timing is everything. (Full Version)

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sunshinemiss -> Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 8:26:28 PM)
Hello everyone, A pink polka dotted elephant over in the poly thread got me to thinking... When do you tell the idiosyncracies of your reality to someone you are getting to know? The discussion over there is about telling that you are poly, and it is an interesting thread. The comment was made that poly is a hard limit / big fat no for a lot of people, and therefore you ought to tell people right away. But what about all the other things that are a hard limit / big fat no? I for one don't want to be seen only as that girl who X (X being my idiosyncracy or baggage). In the poly thread I thought... yeah, would you say the same thing about... say... erectile dysfunction? or history of being a stripper? or having herpes or hpv? or abandonment issues? or PTSD? or having killed someone as a soldier? or being very rich? or needing meds so as not to be a nutjob? What is the line? Where does privacy end? At what point does discretion become a lie by omission? Iit would be appreciated if we would discuss this with curious interest in each other's opinion... none being right or wrong for anyone but the poster. Courteous begets courteous. Best, sunshine

domiguy -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 8:47:35 PM)
Oh silly suunyd, out here courteousy is a sign of weakness. You go big or not at all. anywhoooo, here is the deal. If it has a direct impact on the way a relationship is going to be conducted then it has to be mentioned upfront. Kids married/ in a relationship poly hiv erectile dysfunction vagina is missing These things are going to have a direct impact and should be addressed immediately. Upfront before a meeting would be the best. However, when I meet someone I am not a big proponent of crossing every tee. I don't want to spend too much time on the phone or exchanging countless messages because the proof is in the pudding...or the meeting, as the case may be...(Isn't pudding wonderful) So if I have not given someone the time or allowed them to reach the comfort zone to come clean on their shit then it better happen on our first meeting. But in reality all someone has to do is say, "Domi, wait a minute, one thing you should know about me before this goes any further is that I lost my vagina in the war." See it isn't that hard. Then I have time to reach a decision whether I would want to pursue a relationship with a gal that is a hole shy. Who knows? That's how I see it.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 8:50:37 PM)
sunshine, this is a great topic which I don't think is all that "off topic". My immediate answer is that there is no one right answer to this. It is going to be different in each dynamic. I put a lot of faith in my instincts to tell me when it is time to have those tricky conversations. What I have noticed is that when I have a hard time feeling at ease to do so, it is a sign that I might not be a good fit with that person. Otherwise, I wait until a certain amount of closeness is established and then I chose my moment. Another thing that works for me is to wait for him to reveal himself a little before I do. I don't see this so much as a Domme/sub thing but rather a woman/man thing. I'd like to add though that if I see things are really important to be out there, then I put it out there sooner than later. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 8:53:06 PM)
quote: erectile dysfunction Amazing how many men cannot be honest about this, even when they are lying there in front of you with a limp noodle and a surprised look on their face saying "this never happened to me before, I must have had too much wine". - LA

sunshinemiss -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:02:16 PM)
Ok DomiDelicious, These things are going to have a direct impact and should be addressed immediately. Upfront before a meeting would be the best. I don't agree with you... I know you are surprised ... sit down. That rush of blood to your noggin will go away soon. Some of these things I have mentioned are pretty delicate - std's, medications, etc. Isn't it presumptuous to decided something will happen? And more importantly, relationships require time to grow, time for trust to grow. I'm not going to tell every schmoe I meet all my little delicate truths. Why? Because in the beginning the trust is still growing. How do I know he isn't going to take some private information and spread it to others? How do I know he's not a creep? I don't know. That's why the question. And to switch it around, how does a guy with ED know whether or not I'm a whack job who will go around telling other women about his issue? HE doesn't know. This is something of the crux of my question. *smoochalingus sunshine

domiguy -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:04:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika What I have noticed is that when I have a hard time feeling at ease to do so, it is a sign that I might not be a good fit with that person. Otherwise, I wait until a certain amount of closeness is established and then I chose my moment. - LA quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: erectile dysfunction Amazing how many men cannot be honest about this, even when they are lying there in front of you with a limp noodle and a surprised look on their face saying "this never happened to me before, I must have had too much wine". - LA They are just waiting till they are comfortable. They are waiting until a certain amount of closeness is established and then they will chose their moment. but in the meantime you might have wasted hours, days , weeks on a guy with a limp noodle. Seems to me the best approach is the immediate approach.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:06:18 PM)
sunshine, it isn't clear to me who you are addressing with your response, though it is technically to me. Would it be important for someone to tell another that they have an STD before having sex with them, yes. Is is important to tell them before they have coffee, not necessarily. Does that make sense? - LA

domiguy -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:14:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Ok DomiDelicious, These things are going to have a direct impact and should be addressed immediately. Upfront before a meeting would be the best. I don't agree with you... I know you are surprised ... sit down. That rush of blood to your noggin will go away soon. Some of these things I have mentioned are pretty delicate - std's, medications, etc. Isn't it presumptuous to decided something will happen? And more importantly, relationships require time to grow, time for trust to grow. I'm not going to tell every schmoe I meet all my little delicate truths. Why? Because in the beginning the trust is still growing. How do I know he isn't going to take some private information and spread it to others? How do I know he's not a creep? I don't know. That's why the question. And to switch it around, how does a guy with ED know whether or not I'm a whack job who will go around telling other women about his issue? HE doesn't know. This is something of the crux of my question. *smoochalingus sunshine I understand. But what things get pushed till later and what things should be mentioned immediately? I would like to fuck you several times before I introduce you to my wife or mention that I am poly? We are a fairly highly charged group of folks out here. How long do you wait before the rubber hits the ho? Some of this shit has to be addressed immediately. You are going to wait for a relationship and emotions to develop before you tell someone a "secret" that could be potentially a deal breaker? Hell no. I am talking a "direct impact." Does someone being an ex smoker, stripper, soldier or a priest have any impact on their lives today maybe. but it may not have any impact whatsoever on who you are currently dating. So if you have mental issues that cannot be controlled...ya might want to bring that fucker up. If you are taking meds and everything is cool I would wait. There is no exact science here. But a good rule is the "direct impact" guide line. By the way, after I have sex I tend to get up and take a dump in the fridge. Thought you should know.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:17:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika sunshine, it isn't clear to me who you are addressing with your response, though it is technically to me. Would it be important for someone to tell another that they have an STD before having sex with them, yes. Is is important to tell them before they have coffee, not necessarily. Does that make sense? - LA Hi Angelika I put Domidude's name as the opener to my previous post. Sometimes "reply" or "quote" slow down my computer. I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but I don't think it is necessary to tell someone about an STD before having sex with them - particularly if it is a one night stand, play thing, etc. I PRESUME everyone has an STD and will tell me they don't even if I ask. A huge portion of people with HPV and Herpes don't know they have it (which is why I chose those two in my OP). I presume that you might not know you are infected, so I don't even bother discussing it. Also, I have been "outed" about a number of delicate things in my life, and I prefer my privacy. Yes, your viewpoint makes sense. And I do have the discussion if I'm in a relationship, but for just movie sex (that's what I call it), meh. I just don't agree with your viewpoint. Best, sunshine

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Hi Angelika I put Domidude's name as the opener to my previous post. Sometimes "reply" or "quote" slow down my computer. I figured but wasn't sure as you addressed him with a nickname, anyhow, no biggie. quote: I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but I don't think it is necessary to tell someone about an STD before having sex with them - particularly if it is a one night stand, play thing, etc. I PRESUME everyone has an STD and will tell me they don't even if I ask. A huge portion of people with HPV and Herpes don't know they have it (which is why I chose those two in my OP). I presume that you might not know you are infected, so I don't even bother discussing it. Also, I have been "outed" about a number of delicate things in my life, and I prefer my privacy. I'm not going to flame you, but my personal ethics would prevent me from not saying anything if I had an STD. That said, I learned a long time ago that I can't expect others to share my personal ethics. Like you, I presume everyone has an STD and practice safe sex. Also, when I am getting more seriously involved with someone, I initiate the talk about this subject and request we both get tested. quote: Yes, your viewpoint makes sense. And I do have the discussion if I'm in a relationship, but for just movie sex (that's what I call it), meh. I just don't agree with your viewpoint. Ok, well I guess I don't have much "movie sex" as you call it, but only sex within the realm of more serious relationships, so maybe you agree with my viewpoint more than you think ;-) - LA

sunshinemiss -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:31:48 PM)
Hello Domidude, quote: There is no exact science here. But a good rule is the "direct impact" guide line. it would seem that you have your line, more or less. And I agree there is no exact science. People share based on a variety of factors. My question was a result of wondering about the factors and if they are different for different things. quote: You are going to wait for a relationship and emotions to develop before you tell someone a "secret" that could be potentially a deal breaker? I might. (I suppose I'm seriously stepping into hot water here). But some people are uneducated. Over time I might be able to educate them about certain "deal breakers". I mean a man with diabetes may want to educate me about how it impacts on his life over time. He doesn't just want to be seen as Mr. Diabetes. We all have different deal breakers. Sometimes they change. Your point about it impacting someone right now... I think that is a good point. However, I don't feel the need to tell people all the time even if it may impact them. If it impacts ME, probably. In the end I am the only one who takes care of me. I suppose that in the end it always comes down to the ebb and flow of how trust is built. It's like being gay. When you come out, some people say "You lied! How could you hide that from me!?" and other people say, "Why do you have to tell me this? Keep it private! I don't want to know" You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. And darling Domi, we'll just have to make sure you have your colon cleansed BEFORE we meet. Mmmm hmmm.

slvemike4u -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:32:57 PM)
And I was thisclose to asking You out to see a movie....shit.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:34:07 PM)
Better be careful going that rout, you may run into someone who'd get awfully violent over your not disclosing that and it might not end very well. Even if you never did why do you have the right to potentially infect someone knowing you got an STD if you did. People deserve the right to make fully informed choices about the safety of playing with someone, and not disclosing everything that could harm someone for having played with said person, isn't allowing fully informed choices. quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but I don't think it is necessary to tell someone about an STD before having sex with them - particularly if it is a one night stand, play thing, etc. I PRESUME everyone has an STD and will tell me they don't even if I ask. A huge portion of people with HPV and Herpes don't know they have it (which is why I chose those two in my OP). I presume that you might not know you are infected, so I don't even bother discussing it. Also, I have been "outed" about a number of delicate things in my life, and I prefer my privacy. Yes, your viewpoint makes sense. And I do have the discussion if I'm in a relationship, but for just movie sex (that's what I call it), meh. I just don't agree with your viewpoint. Best, sunshine

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:35:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And I was thisclose to asking You out to see a movie....shit. Ha ha! Darn mike, I didn't peg you as the kind of guy who just wanted flings! ;-) - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:39:27 PM)
quote: People deserve the right to make fully informed choices about the safety of playing with someone, and not disclosing everything that could harm someone for having played with said person, isn't allowing fully informed choices. Really should be told, yes, I agree. Deserve, no. It's semantics, I know, but we don't deserve this information. We aren't really entitled to anything in this realm. If we are having sex with someone without having fully communicated with them, then we deserve nothing. (Note that sunshinemiss did say she would tell someone she was seriously involved with). It is up to every individual to protect themselves and to inform themselves. - LA

sunshinemiss -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:40:39 PM)
quote: Better be careful going that rout, you may run into someone who'd get awfully violent over your not disclosing that and it might not end very well. I stated that if I'm in a RELATIONSHIP I'll discuss my private truths. And in your scenario, even if one does discuss it, you have forgotten one thing. People don't get violent over things. They are violent people looking for excuses to be violent. quote: Even if you never did why do you have the right to potentially infect someone knowing you got an STD. People deserve the right to make fully informed choices about the safety of playing with someone, and not disclosing everything that could harm someone for having played with said person, isn't allowing fully informed choices. Now that is a load of hogwash there. TFTB, if someone is having movie sex (that is casual sex), they have to presume that they are already informed that they are playing with fire. Never did I say people would "potentially infect someone". What I said was that I don't feel it is necessary to inform someone of a number of things. If someone chooses to have casual sex, they already know they are participating in risky behavior. And btw, it isn't whether you have sex with someone who is infected, it is HOW you have sex. Did I ever mention unsafe sex TFTB? Best, sunshine *eta: I like to think that people are honorable and upfront. I like to think that they will not tell my private business to others. I like to think the world is not prejudice, and I will not be negatively impacted by people having knowledge about me. Sadly, the world does not share my view. There is a difference between ideal and reality. I dance on that line all the time. I want to believe that I (and others are safe), but I must act in ways that presume it is not true. Not pessimism. Realism.

OrpheusAgonistes -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:41:51 PM)
quote: I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but I don't think it is necessary to tell someone about an STD before having sex with them - particularly if it is a one night stand, play thing, etc. I PRESUME everyone has an STD and will tell me they don't even if I ask. A huge portion of people with HPV and Herpes don't know they have it (which is why I chose those two in my OP). I presume that you might not know you are infected, so I don't even bother discussing it. Also, I have been "outed" about a number of delicate things in my life, and I prefer my privacy. The fact that an alarming number of people share this worldview is why I insist on exchanging STD tests with new lovers. Awkward? Undeniably. Romantic? Not particularly. Effective? I spent a year living in Greenwich Village and emerged unscathed. I understand your concern about disclosures to a single schmuck becoming common knowledge. Gossip spreads like smallpox in the Sudan. In the final analysis, though, this is the price we pay for being human and having social circles. People gossip. Warhol had that great line "I love gossip more than the things I gossip about. When I'm home alone, I take my dogs into separate rooms and tell them secrets about each other." When I'm getting involved in a relationship of any kind, I want the relevant information as soon as possible. People usually know what is relevant, whatever rationalizations they may invent to justify not disclosing it. As far as timing goes, I'd say that as soon as a person realizes they want something to happen with an acquaintance (romance, sex, bondage, whatever) they need to begin the disclosures.

marie2 -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:46:51 PM)
Oftentimes people tend to withhold certain information specifically because it might scare someone off. Therefore my general rule of thumb is if you feel the need to conceal something until a later date, it's likely something you should be revealing.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:46:59 PM)
quote: As far as timing goes, I'd say that as soon as a person realizes they want something to happen with an acquaintance (romance, sex, bondage, whatever) they need to begin the disclosures. I think that is a healthy guideline. - LA

slvemike4u -> RE: Timing is everything. (4/10/2010 9:47:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And I was thisclose to asking You out to see a movie....shit. Ha ha! Darn mike, I didn't peg you as the kind of guy who just wanted flings! ;-) - LA NowYou know full well this was just another example of my fantasitc sense of humor....I'm searching for a meaningful relationship...if I happen to engage in a few flings along the way,well that's simply the price one must pay in order to conducy an exhaustive search.

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