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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 12:44:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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We're closer, though, than you think. Already we use far less currency than electronic transfers, even at purchase points.

The only sticking point is people thinking of money as a thing instead of what it is, numbers delineating a concept.

Universal wireless access to the Internet would make even casual transactions possible.

Again, not arguing for it....just that it's not such a far-fetched point.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/14/2010 12:46:00 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 12:47:44 PM   
slvemike4u


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But Tim those electronic transfers are backed by actual money....as my bank is quick to point out when my "transfers" exceed my actual money amount.The tool they use to point out this error is once again,as you point out electronic in nature....but decidedly money in practice....they charge me 34 dollars.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 12:49:37 PM   
Musicmystery


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mike,

I don't have time to get into this in depth right now.

Of course they charge you actual money--the concept is real, so they adjusted the numbers accordingly.

No physical transfer was required. That's because the physical currency is also just a representation of that concept.

In short, it just makes no difference.






< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/14/2010 12:50:46 PM >

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 12:53:22 PM   
slvemike4u


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No need to "get into it"...my only point is it is not a "barter" system....not as I understand barter.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 12:57:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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Well, yes, you're right there--I'm giving him leeway because he said "liquid barter"--which means a monetary system (whether he's aware of that or not).

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:01:00 PM   
slvemike4u


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Perhaps that is where my own confusion lay....no problems,all I saw was the big old "barter" and was reacting to that.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:04:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding him as well.

He may be thinking of facilitating barter, vs. making it liquid.

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:09:55 PM   
slvemike4u


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Either way...I like my greenbacks.
The whole "In god we trust" thing and all.....lol.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:11:47 PM   
Musicmystery


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Somewhere, Teddy Roosevelt, who opposed adding that phrase (he found it sacrilegious), is vomiting.

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:12:15 PM   
Moonhead


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In God we trust: all others pay cash...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:18:51 PM   
slvemike4u


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There you go.....without the "in god...." what catchy little sign would your local tavern owner put up to dissuade tabs?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:21:17 PM   
BoiJen


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FR: I guess the expectation that those holding 90% of American wealth should be paying 90% of American taxes is just a little too extreme for the politicians.

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Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:21:24 PM   
Moonhead


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"Big Brother is watching you: get your wallet out"?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 1:41:18 PM   
slvemike4u


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Boi,that would be swinging the pendulum a little too far in one direction....After all the wealthy do not use 90% of all Government services...so expecting them to foot the bill to that level of disparity....would be an extreme form of wealth redistribution..
methinks you went too far there.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 2:10:04 PM   
pyroaquatic


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There was a man who traded one giant red paperclip for a house.

http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/

No Physical or Electronic money.

Is it right place at the right time? Who knows. What I do know is that people spend years upon years of saving up, cutting back, and getting to the grind.

1 year - One house.

10 years - One house.

Any questions?




_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 2:14:26 PM   
slvemike4u


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Plenty...but I don't know where to begin 

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to pyroaquatic)
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 2:48:57 PM   
pyroaquatic


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Well I guess we are done for today. Yep... everyone settle down, nothing to see here. I fixed the worlds problems and everyone dreams of happy bunny land.



I REQUEST YOUR QUESTIONS.

Okay... I will be serious on this matter.

Everyone needs to participate in the National and International System.

Currency is simply a metric.

But if it is a standardized metric why does it go up, down, which way... what?

Raise the Wages, Raise the Cost of Living.

Raise the Cost of Living.... Raise the Wages.

More taxation.

More taxation and hey.... wait..... why are we broke?
=====
Lemme tell you a juicy secret:

I lived in Ohio for three years.
My last four months there I was literally starving to death. Yup. Emaciated in pursuit of this intangible American Dream. I was incredibly nutrient deficient. Because of that my teeth started to rot... no matter how much brushing I did.

The only reason I came to Florida is because I have family there. Of course then I find out that Florida is not doing any better than Ohio.

Some value money over humans.

There are more tired, hungry, and malcontent hands than the ones who mete out the laws. The ratio is appalling.

Yet we can do NOTHING.

It is called group effort.

There are 309,067,636 people in America.

I don't know how many people work for the government.

Heads out of Asses yet?

Have we reached the tipping point yet?

Whatever. People are going to believe what they want.





_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 2:56:04 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

But if it is a standardized metric why does it go up, down, which way... what?


Because markets are subject to supply and demand.


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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 3:08:08 PM   
pyroaquatic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

But if it is a standardized metric why does it go up, down, which way... what?


Because markets are subject to supply and demand.




Subjectivity vs Objectivity.

Are the markets controlled by anyone?
Who sets the standards there?
Who sets the quality of the supplies?
Who is benefiting from this depression?

What is the solution to this?


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

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RE: The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010 - 4/14/2010 3:13:24 PM   
MasterCord


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The "wealthy" already shoulder most of the tax burden. I worked damned hard for my money and that includes to this day 100 hour work weeks. So you bet your ass I want to KEEP a good part of what I earn AFTER I pay the salaries (...good salaries at that with lots of benefits ....) to the people I employ, the bills to the various vendors and suppliers I use locally, and internationally, and the state, federal and local taxes. That money comes out of MY pocket. I pay 100% of health care costs  for half my people, and the rest 70%. I pay people when they are out sick or when their child is sick and they need to stay home, with no limit. They get large bonuses every year and quarterly they receive a gift card to spend as they like. I paid over $20k to immigration lawyers, federal fees, and assorted air and hotel bills to get one of my engineers into this country LEGALLY. I pay 100% of costs for any employee to join a local gym/health club. I have bene generous in helping people with added money when they bought a house or when they needed a new car. My employees will have a cash benefit for every order we get for one of our new products. Why? ...Because they helped make it happen. So I don't want to hear about tax the wealthy. Those of us who are blessed fiscally for the most part work extremely hard and we provide for our communities, our employees and our families. I give often to charities of all sorts. Why should I NOT be rewarded for hard work?  What is the incentive for me to work all these hours and support all these people ....if the government is going to take most of what I earn away?  Alturism? How much more altruistic can I be?  No one seems to ever answer that one......

As for the people who think it's a lie that it takes hard work to be "rich"....for most upper end wage earners in the country it takes hard, hard, hard, long effort and if I choose to pursue a life that brings me higher income, so what?  You want people to not pursue a higher income.....go to Cuba. You'll love it there. I resent someone telling ME it takes no work to earn money in this country and the rest of you should get access to it. Don't you dare to tell me that my income does not provide for other people who work for me, who supply my business, who live in my town, who live in my state and my country.

I put in the time, I put in the effort, I used what little money I had and I built a successful business from the ground up. Through it all I gave my family a home, I helped raise two kids who turned out really well and are a source of immense pride for me..... and I contributed things to the world of considerable value in and of themselves. Things that increased safety in the movement of hazardous cargoes, saved lives and helped lower fuel consumption. I DESERVE the fruits of that effort.  Even as I type this I am on a break from the 11th hour I've put in working today and I have 5 more to go.

I apologize for the angry rant....but there is nothing worse than working your ass off for decades only to watch some people spout nonsense that attacks you as if you're some sort of demon.

MC







quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I really don't care if a president bows in order to be courteous and respectful but I would like a president and a political party that has the courage to increase taxes on the wealthy in order to balance the budget.

They said in the interview we face a candor gap; too few politicians are making the difficult choices to ensure American prosperity in the future.

It was nice to hear somebody tell the truth about what needs to be done to straighten out the economic mess.
 
Ideas in Action
The Fallout from the Financial Crisis April 8, 2010
Jim conducts a one-on-one interview with Robert Samuelson regarding the financial crisis and what Samuelson calls a "massive candor gap" from U.S. politicians on the consequences of continuing huge federal spending and running enormous deficits. If there is no honest accounting today, draconian tax increases and spending cuts will be needed in the future, affecting the quality of life our children will lead.

http://www.ideasinactiontv.com/ 

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