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RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 4:59:35 PM

pyroaquatic

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Or send it to that giant nuclear ball floating in the sky.

_____________________________

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As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 21

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 4:59:56 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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and yet-- some of you will climb thru airport scanners. Wow!!

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 22

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:00:15 PM

kdsub

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There is a debate on how toxic DU is. However it is effective and there is no replacement that I know of.

There should be strict limits on its use and for all I know there are. Otherwise I don’t know enough on the subject to say if its use is justified.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 23

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:04:23 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

This is all fine and dandy as long as my backyard is not turned into a nuclear waste storage site. From what I understood we have offered to take the waste from Europe and Russia and store it here.

No---we will continue what we've been doing, reprocessing it for use in nuclear power plants.

I believe you need to look into that further...yes some fuel is reprocessed but the process itself produces highly radioactive by products that must be stored...check it out.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 24

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:08:14 PM

Musicmystery

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NPR just did a story on it this week. Including the nature of radioactive materials and handling them.

An earlier story last week covers reprocessing nuclear waste for reuse--less than 1% is the truly deadly stuff.

Check it out.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/14/2010 5:10:55 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 25

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:08:18 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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We do need nuclear power

We do not need war.

and we do not need the federal reserve which is a large cause of wars.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 26

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:11:33 PM

Jeffff

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Well PA, maybe they will nuke the Fed. and you can sleep well that night

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Post #: 27

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:12:43 PM

InvisibleBlack

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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Here's the irony.

Folks are concerned that we have nukes for deterrent. But nation-states aren't the risk anymore.

Yet we maintain rhetoric and policy as if we are still in the cold war. It's a dangerous delusion.

I think in many ways we are still "fighting" the Cold War. I think the mentality of that time permeates both our civilian and military leadership - which is part of why we're unable to adjust to the changing circumstances of the new millennium. The concept is nothing new - they always say that generals are fighting the last war.

I'm not overly worried about terrorists with a nuclear weapon - at least at the present. All of the recent activity (from 9/11 to the show bomber to the underwear bomber, etc.) hasn't involved high technology, sophisticated delivery systems or biological/chemical/nuclear technology. They hijcked the planes with box cutters. The guy had a bomb in his shoe that he needed a lighter to set off. They rowed a bomb up to the USS Cole in a boat. These aren't the actions of guys with access to lots of resources and wealth.

I don't believe these people are like James Bond villains. If they were well-financed and well-organized with access to sophisticated weaponry, they wouldn't be working and saving up for a couple of years to take piloting lessons before launching their attack in a stolen airplane.

In fact, I suspect that the current crop of Islamic terrorists aren't even really "Al Qaeda" except in name only (AQINO). I think the whole jihadist terrorist movement has gone viral. It's like open source terrorism. Three disgruntled fanatics in South Wales or Forth Worth, Texas or whatever get together to bitch about the evils of Western civilization, get online and join a couple of forums and download a few manifestos and suddenly they're an "Al Qaeda cell" and off trying to wreak havoc - which is what makes stamping this out almost impossible. They're not training in some "secret camp" in Yemen or whatever. Come on, how much "training" did the underwear bomber have? Rambo, he was not.

Anyways, to get back to the op - loose nukes rattling around southern Russia isn't anything new. People have been angsting about that since the Berlin Wall came down. The sad fact is - there isn't all that much one can do about it - even if you were prepared to invade and search massive tracts of land with names that end in -stan or -kutsk. You'd probably never find them all. The only good thing is that those Russian nukes aren't tiny and there aren't that many people with the facilities to safely work with plutonium.

I'm much more concerned with the proliferation of nuclear reactors amongst the less stable nations. Giving some of these guys the potential to develop radioactive isotopes and nuclear weaponry never seemed like a good idea to me. I can picture someone like Idi Amin or the Khmer Rouge coming to power in a small nuclear state and it's not a pretty picture.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 28

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:13:37 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Well PA, maybe they will nuke the Fed. and you can sleep well that night

Once the nukes are privatized-- the federal reserve cabal will own them. Heck they as good as do now.

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 29

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:14:02 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

NPR just did a story on it this week. Including the nature of radioactive materials and handling them.

An earlier story last week covers reprocessing nuclear waste for reuse--less than 1% is the truly deadly stuff.

Check it out.

I think I'll trust the N.R.C...CHECK this out

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 30

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:30:40 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

I'm not overly worried about terrorists with a nuclear weapon - at least at the present.

The thing is, they don't need a nuclear weapon, only radioactive material.

Only recently has it started to be strictly cataloged even. Instead of keeping shampoo off airplanes, reducing the amount of material and controlling the material we have makes far more sense.

Nuclear weapons are a gone age. If we had more courage and sense, we could seriously reduce this threat.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

Post #: 31

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:32:48 PM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

NPR just did a story on it this week. Including the nature of radioactive materials and handling them.

An earlier story last week covers reprocessing nuclear waste for reuse--less than 1% is the truly deadly stuff.

Check it out.

I think I'll trust the N.R.C...CHECK this out

Butch, that nicely catalogs exactly what the stories covered regarding degrees of waste--much of which can be reprocessed and reused. We even already have a plant that's been doing it.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 32

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 5:33:07 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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or h1n1.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 33

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 6:27:55 PM

vincentML

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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

This is all fine and dandy as long as my backyard is not turned into a nuclear waste storage site. From what I understood we have offered to take the waste from Europe and Russia and store it here.

No---we will continue what we've been doing, reprocessing it for use in nuclear power plants.

I believe you need to look into that further...yes some fuel is reprocessed but the process itself produces highly radioactive by products that must be stored...check it out.

Butch

Well, the question is do we let this stuff remain scattered about and available for terrorist use or do we make some effort on behalf of ourselves and future generations to put the genii back into the bottle by collecting the highly enriched uranium and downblending it for Nuclear Power Plants to make electricity and store what we can of the high level waste in Yucca Mountain. Nobody said it was an easy decision. We have been downblending our own and Russian warheads since 1995.

On the other hand, if you are totally opposed to elecricity generated by nuclear power plants then it is a mute point.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 34

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 7:42:10 PM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Well, the question is do we let this stuff remain scattered about and available for terrorist use or do we make some effort on behalf of ourselves and future generations to put the genii back into the bottle by collecting the highly enriched uranium and downblending it for Nuclear Power Plants to make electricity and store what we can of the high level waste in Yucca Mountain. Nobody said it was an easy decision. We have been downblending our own and Russian warheads since 1995.

Exactly.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 35

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 7:46:52 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is a debate on how toxic DU is. However it is effective and there is no replacement that I know of.

There should be strict limits on its use and for all I know there are. Otherwise I don’t know enough on the subject to say if its use is justified.

Butch

Actually, there is a ceramic/metal composite that had been developed for use in torus type fusion research reactors. The same density as Depleted Uranium but costs about 40 times as much, which is why it is not being used in the reactors. I have no clue as to what they are using in place of this material.

The only other possible metal to use is tungsten. The only problem is that Tungsten is kinda rare in large amounts.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 36

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 8:47:33 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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You must not be reading the same link as I... it clearly states High-level wastes which include spent rods and by products of reprocessing must be stored on site or will be stored in the new Yucca Repository if it goes through. The waste will take hundreds of thousand of years before it is rendered harmless.

There is as of now no Commercial reprocessing in the US.

Below is from the NRC website I linked to.

High-Level Waste
High-level radioactive wastes are the highly radioactive materials produced as a byproduct of the reactions that occur inside nuclear reactors. High-level wastes take one of two forms:

Spent (used) reactor fuel when it is accepted for disposal
Waste materials remaining after spent fuel is reprocessed
Spent nuclear fuel is used fuel from a reactor that is no longer efficient in creating electricity, because its fission process has slowed. However, it is still thermally hot, highly radioactive, and potentially harmful. Until a permanent disposal repository for spent nuclear fuel is built, licensees must safely store this fuel at their reactors.

Reprocessing extracts isotopes from spent fuel that can be used again as reactor fuel. Commercial reprocessing is currently not practiced in the United States, although it has been allowed in the past. However, significant quantities of high-level radioactive waste are produced by the defense reprocessing programs at Department of Energy (DOE) facilities, such as Hanford, Washington, and Savannah River, South Carolina, and by commercial reprocessing operations at West Valley, New York. These wastes, which are generally managed by DOE, are not regulated by NRC. However they must be included in any high-level radioactive waste disposal plans, along with all high-level waste from spent reactor fuel.

Because of their highly radioactive fission products, high-level waste and spent fuel must be handled and stored with care. Since the only way radioactive waste finally becomes harmless is through decay, which for high-level wastes can take hundreds of thousands of years, the wastes must be stored and finally disposed of in a way that provides adequate protection of the public for a very long time.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/14/2010 8:48:06 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 37

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 9:02:16 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Well, the question is do we let this stuff remain scattered about and available for terrorist use or do we make some effort on behalf of ourselves and future generations to put the genii back into the bottle by collecting the highly enriched uranium and downblending it for Nuclear Power Plants to make electricity and store what we can of the high level waste in Yucca Mountain. Nobody said it was an easy decision. We have been downblending our own and Russian warheads since 1995.

On the other hand, if you are totally opposed to elecricity generated by nuclear power plants then it is a mute point.

Vince I am not against this proposal...but neither do I want us to absorb the cost alone. If these nations want to store their waste in the US they should pay for it and we should demand they do.

I think for the future a better option would be to close all nuclear power facilities so no more plutonium will be produced. When new safer, more efficient, technologies come along I am all for nuclear power production.

Right now they are dangerous…expensive…high maintenance…a security risk…and pure poison. Not just for a while but for over a 100,000 years.

For the cost of a new plant just think of all the wind and solar power that could be produced. These technologies would produce far more jobs then a few nuclear power plants and not produce dangerous by products.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/14/2010 9:03:52 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 38

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 9:54:38 PM

Silence8

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Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline

Nuclear threats? Nope. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

Global warming? Probably.

Perfect timing for a new season of '24'? Definitely.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 39

RE: World Isn't Prepared For Nuclear Threat - 4/14/2010 11:26:22 PM

Brain

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Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan says Iran's nuclear rights should be respected and it is only a rumor that Iran is trying to produce nuclear weapons. Speaking before meeting British Prime Minister Gordon Brown in London, Erdogan also questioned why countries like Israel did not face calls from the international community to disarm, while Iran did.'

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

by Daniel Schorr, April 14, 2010:

"The era of nuclear confrontation between superpowers may have passed, but the threat of nuclear weapons remains. NPR Senior News Analyst Dan Schorr warns that the international community is not prepared for the threat of nuclear attack from groups with no fixed address."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125997188

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 40

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