RE: Raising children? (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 3:54:04 PM)

quote:

This is mine.


I'm not really fond of sources that pull statistics out of their asses and don't reveal their sources nor do they contextualise the findings. It might as well be reality TV.

- LA




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 7:38:02 PM)

Ah so now we need sources. Ok.


In 1996, law enforcement agencies in the United States made an estimated 2.9 million arrests of persons under age 18.* According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), juveniles accounted for 19% of all arrests and 19% of all violent crime arrests in 1996. The substantial growth in juvenile violent crime arrests that began in the late 1980's peaked in 1994. In 1996, for the second year in a row, the total number of juvenile arrests for Violent Crime Index offenses -- murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault -- declined. Even with these declines (3% in 1995 and 6% in 1996), the number of juvenile Violent Crime Index arrests in 1996 was 60% above the 1987 level. In comparison, the number of adult arrests for a Violent Crime Index offense in 1996 was 24% greater than in 1987.

These findings are derived from data reported annually by local law enforcement agencies across the country to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. Based on these data, the FBI prepares its annual Crime in the United States report, which summarizes crimes known to the police and arrests made during the reporting calendar year. This information is used to characterize the extent and nature of juvenile crime that comes to the attention of the justice system. Other recent findings from the UCR Program are:


Juveniles were involved in 37% of all burglary arrests, 32% of robbery arrests, 24% of weapon arrests, and 15% of murder and aggravated assault arrests in 1996.

About 1 in every 220 persons ages 10 through 17 in the United States was arrested for a Violent Crime Index offense in 1996.

Juvenile murder arrests declined 3% between 1993 and 1994, 14% between 1994 and 1995, and another 14% between 1995 and 1996. Juvenile arrests for murder in 1996 were at their lowest level in the 1990's, but still 50% above the number of arrests in 1987.

Between 1992 and 1996, juvenile arrests for burglary declined 7% and juvenile arrests for motor vehicle theft declined 20%.

Juveniles were involved in 14% of all drug arrests in 1996. Between 1992 and 1996, juvenile arrests for drug abuse violations increased 120%.

Juvenile arrests for curfew violations increased 21% between 1995 and 1996 and 116% between 1992 and 1996. In 1996, 28% of curfew arrests involved juveniles under age 15 and 29% involved females.

In 1996, 57% of arrests for running away from home involved females and 41% involved juveniles under age 15.

Arrests of juveniles accounted for 13% of all violent crimes cleared by arrest in 1996 -- more specifically, 8% of murders, 12% of forcible rapes, 18% of robberies, and 12% of aggravated assaults.


http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/jjbulletin/jjbul_1197/jjb1197.html

The March 25, 1996, edition of U.S. News and World Report documents the escalating problem of juvenile crime and describes this issue as a potential "time bomb" for the 21st Century. The issue's articles enumerate a dramatic and exorbitant rate of growth in the level of juvenile violent crime over the course of the prior decade. Nationally, juvenile murder arrests have increased 150 percent since 1985, aggravated assault arrests have grown 97 percent, robbery arrests have expanded 57 percent, and arrests for weapon violations grew 103 percent. Reported drug use among high school seniors began to rise again during the early 1990's.

The authors noted that these increasing trends foreshadow an even greater explosion of juvenile crime which has been projected to hit the nation during the first decade of the 21st Century. Igniting this projected increase is a predicted rise in the sheer number of juveniles with demographers estimating a 31 percent increase in the juvenile population by 2010.


http://www.gcc.state.nc.us/juviol.htm

Official records underrepresent juvenile delinquent behavior. Many crimes by juveniles are never reported to authorities. Many juveniles who commit offenses are never arrested or are not arrested for all of their delinquencies. As a result, official records systematically underestimate the scope of juvenile crime. In addition, to the extent that other factors may influence the types of crimes or offenders that enter the justice system, official records may distort the attributes of juvenile crime.

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/ojstatbb/nr2006/downloads/chapter3.pdf

Girls have accounted for an increasingly higher proportion of juvenile
arrests, particularly for property crimes and in the “all other offenses”
category. In 2006, females accounted for approximately 29 percent of
the total juvenile arrests, a slight decrease from the percentage of total
arrests (approximately 30%) in 2004 and 2005. The percentage of total
juvenile arrests committed by females has remained constant at 29 to 30%
of total arrests over the past fi ve years. From 1997 to 2006, the percentage
increased by 11 percent for girls, while in comparison the percentage
of total arrests committed by males has decreased by approximately 4
percent from 1997 to 2006.
During 2006 females accounted for approximately:
• 29 percent of all juvenile arrests (a slight decrease from 2005).
• 29 percent of all juvenile arrests for drug and alcohol offenses (no
change from 2005).
• 32 percent of all juvenile arrests for property offenses (a slight decrease
from 2004).
• 17 percent of all juvenile arrests for violent offenses (no change from
2005).
•29 percent of all juvenile arrests for all other offenses (no change
from 2005).
Girls accounted for approximately 31 percent of the juvenile arrests for
property crimes in 2006, while the percentage of total arrests of females
for property crimes decreased by 3 percent from 2005 to 2006. Girls represented
41 percent of all juvenile arrests for larceny (theft) in 2006.
Girls accounted for approximately 27 percent of the total juvenile arrests
for drug and alcohol offenses, a decrease from 2005. The percentage
of total arrests for “all other offenses” committed by females increased
slightly (by 2 percent) from 2002 to 2006. In 2006, girls represented approximately
37 percent of the arrests for “other assaults”; 41 percent of the
juvenile arrests for larceny-theft; 35 percent of the total juvenile arrests for
forgery and counterfeiting; approximately 42 percent of all juvenile arrests
for fraud and embezzlement; 92 percent of the total juvenile arrests for
prostitution and commercial vice; and 32 percent of the juvenile arrests
for liquor law violations.
Thus, while the total number of juvenile arrests for committing crimes has
decreased substantially over the past ten years (from 51,940 arrests in
1997 to 34,432 in 2006—a 34 percent decrease), the female juvenile arrest
trend differs from the male trend (the number of juvenile arrests for boys
decreased by 36 percent from 1997 to 2006, compared to only a 26 percent
decrease for girls). This is consistent with the national trend in the rise
in the proportion of females entering the juvenile justice system—“in 1980,
20 percent of all juvenile arrests were female arrests; in 2003, this percentage
had increased to 29 percent--with the majority of this growth since
the early 1990s” (Source: Snyder, Sickmund, “Juvenile Offenders and
Victims: 2006 National Report,” OJJDP, OJP, March 2006.)

http://www.dshs.wa.gov/pdf/gjjac/DataAnalysis-11-Arrests.pdf

Official data from law enforcement sources suggest that girls comprise between 8 and 11 percent
of the youth in gangs. A number of recent studies that survey gang youth, however, suggest that females
make up 20 to 46 percent of gang members (Miller, 2001). Law enforcement data tend to underestimate
the extent of female gang membership for a variety of reasons, including a lack of common definition of a
gang member and the consistent underreporting of female participation in gangs. The high number of
female gang members recorded in self-report surveys may reflect the younger ages of survey
respondents compared to the youth who appear on police rosters: females tend to drop out of gang life
earlier than males, often because of pregnancy (Moore and Hagedorn, 2001). Although the percentage
of girls who are involved in delinquency and crime have increased significantly in the past two decades, it
is still far below the level of boys’ involvement and the nature of the activity differs significantly (Weiler,
1999).

The reasons for any juvenile joining a gang are complex and personal. Though most females join
gangs for friendship and self-affirmation, recent research has begun to shed some light on economic and
family pressures motivating many young women to join gangs (Moore and Hagedorn, 2001). Many of the
impulses that propel youth into gangs are social and understandable – the need for safety, security, and a
sense of purpose and belonging. It is the behaviors of the youth in the gang that are viewed by the larger
community as disruptive and harmful to the gang members themselves as well as to the community.
Ironically, the sense of solidarity achieved from sharing everyday life with similarly situated people has the
unintended effect of drawing many youth into behaviors that ultimately create new problems for them (Joe
and Chesney-Lind, 1995). The reasons most frequently cited in the literature for joining a gang include
abuse and family problems at home, poverty, boredom, and family or community connection to gang
members. Independently, these reasons do not necessarily lead to gang membership. It is the
combination of the four reasons that lead to an increased probability of gang membership.

Problems at home or within the family are one reason that youth join gangs. One aspect of
female gang life does not appear to be changing – the gang serves as a refuge for girls who have been
abused at home. For many, the gang serves as an alternate family. Problems such as weak supervision,
family violence, lack of attachment to parents, and drug and alcohol abuse by family members have been
suggested as factors that contribute to the likelihood that girls will join gangs. Young women begin
spending more time away from home as a result of the dangers and difficulties there, and seek to meet
their social and emotional needs elsewhere (Miller, 2001). In some families, parents are working several
jobs to make ends meet. Unfortunately, while parents are struggling to stay afloat, supervision is absent
at home. Older gang members take on the role of father and mother in many young kids’ lives. To some,
the gang becomes a closer family than their biological family because the gang is there every day, unlike their parents (Joe and Chesney-Lind, 1995).

http://www.lafollette.wisc.edu/gangs/murrish_girlsgangs.pdf



The statistics show the article, and Dr Michele Borba is quite on track.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 7:59:39 PM)

Alright, well all this proves is that law enforcement has gotten better, not that people have gotten more violent.

- LA




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 8:05:19 PM)

As much as you may wish to believe that, recall... no.. allow me to repost a part of my previous post...

Official records underrepresent juvenile delinquent behavior. Many crimes by juveniles are never reported to authorities. Many juveniles who commit offenses are never arrested or are not arrested for all of their delinquencies. As a result, official records systematically underestimate the scope of juvenile crime. In addition, to the extent that other factors may influence the types of crimes or offenders that enter the justice system, official records may distort the attributes of juvenile crime.

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/ojstatbb/nr2006/downloads/chapter3.pdf

Now, if these crimes are often underreported, yet, reports are showing an upward trend in crimes by this age group... what does that say?







LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 8:10:46 PM)

quote:

what does that say?


That says you believe the moral panic propaganda.

- LA




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 8:16:57 PM)

Seems even in the face of reports, statictics and Juvenile Court records, your denial of such facts is rather... interesting.

If it makes you feel better to believe children are good and have not changed since the 50's, please do so.




DarlingSavage -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 9:25:38 PM)

quote:

If it makes you feel better to believe children are good and have not changed since the 50's, please do so.


I DO believe in the basic goodness of children and of humankind in general.

First of all, I agree with LadyA, one should always quote sources when reporting facts and figures.

But back to the most recent statement, I think that what has changed is parents' ability to be at home and to be available for their children. This is largely due to an economy where most families must have both mothers and fathers working outside the home in order to provide the same things as they a single income was able to provide back in the 50s.

There are also more people than there used to be. And they have also gotten better at "catching" people.




WyldHrt -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 10:02:27 PM)

quote:

But back to the most recent statement, I think that what has changed is parents' ability to be at home and to be available for their children. This is largely due to an economy where most families must have both mothers and fathers working outside the home in order to provide the same things as they a single income was able to provide back in the 50s.

While that was typical in the 50's, it certainly wasn't the case when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Both of my parents worked, as did the parents of most of the kids I knew. That didn't stop the parents back then from teaching right and wrong, nor did it keep them from holding us kids accountable for our actions. If Mom got home and my chores or homework weren't done, dinner wasn't started (Mom did the prep), or I was off with friends without leaving a note, you can bet that there were consequences. Of course, back then, neighborhoods were actually  neighborhoods, and the "nosey old ladies" wouldn't hesitate to rat us out if they saw us, say, blowing up mom's flowerbeds with firecrackers (not that I would ever have done such a thing [:D]).







Missokyst -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 10:25:06 PM)

I am going to vote a relative of mine in the "should never have been allowed" catagory.
I don't think allowing parties of pre-teens in her home where drinking and pot were available, on the premise of "better they do it in a house with an adult around, than on the streets", while she partied with them was not responsible adult parenthood behavior. The fact that one of her grandkids got pregnant at 13, and that that child eventually was busted for grand theft auto at age 14.. and that he has 2 illegitimate kids of his own now.. And the other daughter was busted for making crack in their home while the baby was in the living room.. Well I think it is true, some people should not be parents.
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


quote:

ORIGINAL: blueeyedbbwsub

Some so-called parents should never have been allowed to have children in the first place.



Like who for example?

It's this way of thinking which led to the popularity of Hitler and the Nazi Party and the Holocaust.






Smutmonger -> RE: Raising children? (4/19/2010 10:50:39 PM)

And yet other parents inculcated thier chidren with right wing Christianity-encouraging them to murder Doctors and blow up abortion clinics-the horrors of bad parenting never end!




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 4:08:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

If it makes you feel better to believe children are good and have not changed since the 50's, please do so.


I DO believe in the basic goodness of children and of humankind in general.

First of all, I agree with LadyA, one should always quote sources when reporting facts and figures.

But back to the most recent statement, I think that what has changed is parents' ability to be at home and to be available for their children. This is largely due to an economy where most families must have both mothers and fathers working outside the home in order to provide the same things as they a single income was able to provide back in the 50s.

There are also more people than there used to be. And they have also gotten better at "catching" people.


Um, DS, the Dr did state the figures came from the Dept of Justice.

As far as parents being at home and available... many are single parents, so was i. i count myself blessed, and thank my own hard work, for the fact that my son is an adult without a criminal record. but, then again, i set up the boundaries and limits for his life long before he could walk.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 4:58:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Seems even in the face of reports, statictics and Juvenile Court records, your denial of such facts is rather... interesting.


Again, it's the contextualisation of things. We have ways to gather data now that we didn't have in the past. Of course the numbers are going to be higher. When looking at data, you cannot analyse it in such a simplistic form.

The population is greater, law enforcement is more adept at apprehending offenders, media broadcasts just about anything sensationalist... those are all also factors in a very complex equation that cannot be summed up by saying that the children of today are more delinquent.

quote:

If it makes you feel better to believe children are good and have not changed since the 50's, please do so.


Ok. But that is not what I believe.

I think that children have changed in many ways. Access to information has made them develop much quicker intellectually. I see kids younger and younger grasping complex things. It's mind boggling actually.

As far as parenting styles, I saw just as many lax parents when I was growing up as I do now. I also see just as many responsible ones. Then again, you and I live in very different societies, and though I might have a very different perspective on things, I have a feeling that in the end, it all balances itself out.

And in response to DarlingSavage, I don't agree with your assessment that it is the 2 parents in the work place. Both my parents were career-oriented, they often both pursued studies while working, they also were very socially active, they never used corporal punishment but rather talked with us and set really clear boundaries. My brother and I turned out rather well. In fact, many of my friends that I went to primary and secondary school were raised the same way and I know most of them have made great things of their lives.

- LA





kdsub -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 7:03:00 AM)

tazzygirl I'll sound old fashion I know but I believe that many problems with our children are a result of mothers needing to work. It takes two incomes now instead of one….plain and simple.

Butch




tazzygirl -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 8:57:11 AM)

If that were true, then why didnt my son turn out to be one of the "bad kids". i will concede part of it was luck. i will also tell you that parenting is hard work. it takes time, effort and energy. it requires lots of work, lots of planning, and lots of initiative. and loads of sacrifice! These are not traits i equate with the generation raising children today.




sirsholly -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 9:10:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

tazzygirl I'll sound old fashion I know but I believe that many problems with our children are a result of mothers needing to work. It takes two incomes now instead of one….plain and simple.

Butch

yep...moms fault [:)]

i spent the first 6 yrs of my professional career ( i have a Masters in Family Counseling) working with the children (primary) and the families (secondary) of dysfunctional units.

With the exception of the first 3-6 months of life needed for the bonding process, stay at home parenting is not going to make that much of a difference. It is the quality of parenting, as opposed to the quantity of time, that will ultimately matter most.
The unity of the family, even if the family consists of but one parent and one child, is vital but is not necessitated by a stay at home mother.




kdsub -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 9:41:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If that were true, then why didnt my son turn out to be one of the "bad kids". i will concede part of it was luck. i will also tell you that parenting is hard work. it takes time, effort and energy. it requires lots of work, lots of planning, and lots of initiative. and loads of sacrifice! These are not traits i equate with the generation raising children today.


We are talking in general I believe...I think the close supervision of a "GOOD" stay at home parent can't be beat.

You are sounding sort of pompous saying that your generation is or was any better at raising kids then any other. We have all heard our parents and grand parents opine about raising kids in years past. Each generation has it challenges but it takes attention and patience to properly raise a child and that is something this world today does not allow a lot of.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 9:47:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i spent the first 6 yrs of my professional career ( i have a Masters in Family Counseling) working with the children (primary) and the families (secondary) of dysfunctional units.

With the exception of the first 3-6 months of life needed for the bonding process, stay at home parenting is not going to make that much of a difference. It is the quality of parenting, as opposed to the quantity of time, that will ultimately matter most.
The unity of the family, even if the family consists of but one parent and one child, is vital but is not necessitated by a stay at home mother.


I can't agree with you here...forget the sex of the stay at home parent...just having someone with the time to supervise and parent will make a difference. To me it is pretty obvious...if as you say parenting is not important in children then why bother to teach them at all...let their peers...they know everything.

Bottom line a good home with a good stay at home parent will raise a better adjusted child on average then a good home with an absent parent.

Butch








sirsholly -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 9:53:11 AM)

quote:

takes attention and patience to properly raise a child and that is something this world today does not allow a lot of.


Hey Butch...i realize this is not directed to me., but let me tell you something here. It will be the fucking day the world disallows me the ability to give my kids the attention and patience they require to be raised properly.






stella41b -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 10:03:06 AM)

quote:

But back to the most recent statement, I think that what has changed is parents' ability to be at home and to be available for their children.


I'd say that most of all what has changed is society as a whole. When you take a look at people themselves, you should pretty much find people are generally the same. Every generation brings with it its own social changes.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Raising children? (4/20/2010 10:05:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

i spent the first 6 yrs of my professional career ( i have a Masters in Family Counseling) working with the children (primary) and the families (secondary) of dysfunctional units.

With the exception of the first 3-6 months of life needed for the bonding process, stay at home parenting is not going to make that much of a difference. It is the quality of parenting, as opposed to the quantity of time, that will ultimately matter most.
The unity of the family, even if the family consists of but one parent and one child, is vital but is not necessitated by a stay at home mother.


I can't agree with you here...forget the sex of the stay at home parent...just having someone with the time to supervise and parent will make a difference. To me it is pretty obvious...if as you say parenting is not important in children then why bother to teach them at all...let their peers...they know everything.

Bottom line a good home with a good stay at home parent will raise a better adjusted child on average then a good home with an absent parent.

Butch







Some of us dont have that luxury. But its a far better role model to work your butt off to provide than to be on government dole.




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