German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (Full Version)

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rfd1 -> German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 1:08:30 PM)

Big Brother is watching.
quote:

Traditionalist Catholic bishop Richard Williamson was ordered by a German court on Friday to pay a reduced 10,000 euro ($13,980) fine for denying the Holocaust, a court spokesman said.

British-born Williamson, 70, had appealed against a ruling handed down in October that he pay a fine of 12,000 euros for comments, broadcast on Swedish television in January 2009, that no more than 300,000 Jews perished in the Holocaust and that there were no gas chambers, denying the Holocaust is a hate crime in Germany.


"Voltaire’s maxim 'I do not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it,' has become 'I cannot disprove what you say, but I forbid you to say it." - Sylvia Stolz, attorney for Ernst Zundel.

Stolz was defending Zundel in court when she was arrested in the courtroom for Holocaust Denial as she addressed the court on behalf of her client.

Canada, France, Austria, Spain, Germany, just a matter of time and Supreme Court changes until this country too will be like 1984



thompsonx -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 1:11:48 PM)

What is the point you are trying to make?



mnottertail -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 1:23:34 PM)

I think it is---

Always........................no.
Never.............



Politesub53 -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 3:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

Big Brother is watching.



This Bishop is well known for his antisemitism. He went on TV and made a broadcast which was against the law. Would you suggest the Taliban are allowed to do the same in the US ? Somehow I doubt it.



slvemike4u -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 3:54:47 PM)

I think the point is obvious.....not to mention insidious....a denier walks amongst us...well actually we have a few here anyway.
Funny thing they all seem to be a few cards short of a full deck [:)]



Jeffff -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:31:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

Big Brother is watching.



This Bishop is well known for his antisemitism. He went on TV and made a broadcast which was against the law. Would you suggest the Taliban are allowed to do the same in the US ? Somehow I doubt it.



I think that should be allowed. That's part of the deal. You should have the right to say what you wish. You can then deal with the consequences.

If it is not allowed, are We any better than the Taliban?



NorthernGent -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:32:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

"Voltaire’s maxim 'I do not agree with what you say, but I defend your right to say it,' has become 'I cannot disprove what you say, but I forbid you to say it." - Sylvia Stolz, attorney for Ernst Zundel.



Sort of .

Assuming you accept the statements of leading Nazis....to the effect that were indeed gas chambers and far more than three hundred thousand people died...then I suppose it would be: "I believe I can disprove what you say - but you have no right to challenge my version of proof".

And Voltaire was reasonable yeah.....where people agreed with his reason......his views could only have led to a Robespierre and 'forcing the people to be free'.....in that: "we must have reason/liberty at all costs - it is essential for human progress - the ends will justify the means".



Politesub53 -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff


I think that should be allowed. That's part of the deal. You should have the right to say what you wish. You can then deal with the consequences.

If it is not allowed, are We any better than the Taliban?



I am all for free speech Jeff. I just happen to think that stopping racists from denying the holocaust is justified.



slvemike4u -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:40:09 PM)

Agreed 



Jeffff -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:44:46 PM)

Slippery slope. Instead I would choose to counter the accusation with evidence.

Despite the obvious things occurring as we speak, I think it is dangerous to assume all people are stupid and must be protected from bad "ideas".

It diminishes the people and opens the door to censorship.

Who decides what is fit to be heard or not. I find Holocaust deniers to be low, mindless, racist website searching scum.

I also believe they have the right to lay their dicks on the table and hand us the hammer



jlf1961 -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 4:50:42 PM)

Jeff, now be nice... just because they are low life racist scum, with the mental power of an amoeba, is no reason to desecrate an innocent hammer by using it on them.

We could place them on an island somewhere, I understand that devil's island is vacant.



Arpig -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 5:20:47 PM)

I think its deplorable that he was fined. Despite thinking that holocaust deniers are idiots, I feel very strongly that they have the right to say what they do without fear of prosecution. We are only as free as the least free among us, and if they do not have freedom of speech then none of us do. Just because they are wrong (and demonstrably so) is no reason to prevent them from saying what they will.

And yes I know that Canada is among the worst offenders when it comes to prosecuting holocaust deniers, and I am strongly opposed to it. I am opposed to all "hate speech" laws, as well as "hate crimes" in general.



thishereboi -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 5:40:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I think the point is obvious.....not to mention insidious....a denier walks amongst us...well actually we have a few here anyway.
Funny thing they all seem to be a few cards short of a full deck [:)]


few fries short of a happy meal[:)]

I like watching you poke them with sticks, so I guess they do provide some form of entertainment. [sm=poke.gif]





slvemike4u -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 5:57:21 PM)

I do what I can boi.....



DarkSteven -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 6:01:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I think its deplorable that he was fined. Despite thinking that holocaust deniers are idiots, I feel very strongly that they have the right to say what they do without fear of prosecution. We are only as free as the least free among us, and if they do not have freedom of speech then none of us do. Just because they are wrong (and demonstrably so) is no reason to prevent them from saying what they will.

And yes I know that Canada is among the worst offenders when it comes to prosecuting holocaust deniers, and I am strongly opposed to it. I am opposed to all "hate speech" laws, as well as "hate crimes" in general.



I agree.  I have a distant relative who escaped from a camp when he was eight, and have relatives who died in them.  That said, I have no desire to have people prosecuted simply for being wrong.



TheHeretic -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 6:13:46 PM)

Freedom of speech is a rare and precious thing. Perhaps one day such basic human liberty will be granted by the governments of Europe and Canada to their subjects.

Thank God it doesn't work that way here.



belladevine -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 7:08:18 PM)


I believe that freedom of speech is paramount to a free society.

I also don't think it is not good to tell lies.

That Bishop is.... a) lying to people about the holocaust
b) uneducated on the facts
c) a grotesque combination of a and b

People (especially authority figures) should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for lying. Lying leads people away from the truth.

People that are not educated need to get out of the pew and go to school.

This Bishop stinks! He is a disgrace and an abomination. He is an insult to Humanity.



belladevine -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 7:12:47 PM)


Whoops! Correction to my previous post....

I also don't think it is good to tell lies.

Correcting errors is good. [:)




luckydawg -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 7:40:47 PM)

I used to be in favor of free speech laws, but now just want these idiots put in FEMA Death Camps



Silence8 -> RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial (4/16/2010 11:13:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

What is the point you are trying to make?



It's strange (even if the OP is a 'denier'... which I don't know.)

Why not ignore these losers (you know... deniers)?

The court isn't meant to rule over speech. Even if obscenity is a gray area for some -- I think that's also overblown, but let's focus -- I don't think hate rhetoric is a matter of law. Too close to out-and-out regulating thought, which directly contradicts the spirit of freedom.




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