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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:38:17 PM   
kruelkare


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If the "got to have it writing by the original contract holders" argument holds, then the USof A is still a British Colony... and we'd like our back taxes please...

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:39:42 PM   
pahunkboy


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Wouldn't this mean the Pope is part owner of the Federal Reserve?

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:40:25 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Oh yeh like money!


True. There are many things you misunderstand.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:43:31 PM   
DCWoody


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Site I run (tiny, no you can't has link) has a no trolling rule, with a note that if you're so incredibly stupid that your genuine posts are mistaken for trolling, you've broken the next rule...no incredible stupidity.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:44:38 PM   
pahunkboy


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That king must be kin to Goldman Sachs.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:49:53 PM   
Lucylastic


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This is going to change my life how
????


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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 5:51:42 PM   
kruelkare


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Sorry, double-posting myself

< Message edited by kruelkare -- 4/19/2010 5:52:44 PM >

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 6:02:37 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

This is going to change my life how
????



Sorry  we are all out of change.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 6:11:48 PM   
Lucylastic


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so it actually really  means nothing
its what I thought, not even worthy of  contempt


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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 6:12:28 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

You cant just stand up and make an announcement to nullify a contract and think its actually going to happen!!!!
Yes you can, you sure as fuck can when you are the king of a medieval state...you can do whatever the fuck you want, you can announce or renounce anything you fucking well please and guess what....that's the law. When Henry renounced allegiance to Rome it was fact, there was no need of a document or anything other than the king's word...that's how it worked back then.

You are correct that there was no formal repudiation of Rome, but Henry declared himself supreme head of the church in England and renounced papal authority...ergo John's little dalliance as a papal fief was no longer valid. In fact, if I am not mistaken Edward I (John's grandson) never did fealty to the Pope on his ascension to the throne, thus he rejected  Papal superiority long before Henry.



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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 6:21:24 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

You cant just stand up and make an announcement to nullify a contract and think its actually going to happen!!!!
Yes you can, you sure as fuck can when you are the king of a medieval state...you can do whatever the fuck you want, you can announce or renounce anything you fucking well please and guess what....that's the law. When Henry renounced allegiance to Rome it was fact, there was no need of a document or anything other than the king's word...that's how it worked back then.

You are correct that there was no formal repudiation of Rome, but Henry declared himself supreme head of the church in England and renounced papal authority...ergo John's little dalliance as a papal fief was no longer valid. In fact, if I am not mistaken Edward I (John's grandson) never did fealty to the Pope on his ascension to the throne, thus he rejected  Papal superiority long before Henry.




And yet- some think government is fair and just and can do no wrong. None. Nada. Zilch.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 6:25:49 PM   
Musicmystery


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Divine Right of Kings

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 9:05:01 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

well see that'l teach him.

so how is it being owned by the catholic church anyway?
LMMFAO...you are an idiot, there's no two ways about it. Like MM said, you may want to read up on Henry VIII, he renounced all fealty to Rome and made himself head of the Church in England, a position taken by all his successors with the exception of Mary I.




best of my knowledge NO document exists.....

The Act in Restraint of Appeals of 1533
http://home.freeuk.net/don-aitken/ast/h8a.html#145

Guess your best knowledge isn't very good.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 9:17:21 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

well see that'l teach him.

so how is it being owned by the catholic church anyway?
LMMFAO...you are an idiot, there's no two ways about it. Like MM said, you may want to read up on Henry VIII, he renounced all fealty to Rome and made himself head of the Church in England, a position taken by all his successors with the exception of Mary I.




best of my knowledge NO document exists.....

The Act in Restraint of Appeals of 1533
http://home.freeuk.net/don-aitken/ast/h8a.html#145

Guess your best knowledge isn't very good.



just for the sake of clarity since I have seen so little from you quote it.


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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 9:18:30 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Divine Right of Kings


yeh like the sword to his throat when he signed the magna charta to get his fuckin head wacked off


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 9:21:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

You cant just stand up and make an announcement to nullify a contract and think its actually going to happen!!!!
Yes you can, you sure as fuck can when you are the king of a medieval state...you can do whatever the fuck you want, you can announce or renounce anything you fucking well please and guess what....that's the law. When Henry renounced allegiance to Rome it was fact, there was no need of a document or anything other than the king's word...that's how it worked back then.

You are correct that there was no formal repudiation of Rome, but Henry declared himself supreme head of the church in England and renounced papal authority...ergo John's little dalliance as a papal fief was no longer valid. In fact, if I am not mistaken Edward I (John's grandson) never did fealty to the Pope on his ascension to the throne, thus he rejected  Papal superiority long before Henry.




Yeh ok I will give you that you can do that with your chattel and get away with it, however you cant do that with another party that would be the equivalent of 2 individual nations.  and get away with it.  As long as party 2 retains the contract it cannot be nulled regardless of what church he wantes to call himself.


that said kingy is in breach





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/19/2010 9:33:44 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/19/2010 11:41:02 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

well see that'l teach him.

so how is it being owned by the catholic church anyway?
LMMFAO...you are an idiot, there's no two ways about it. Like MM said, you may want to read up on Henry VIII, he renounced all fealty to Rome and made himself head of the Church in England, a position taken by all his successors with the exception of Mary I.




best of my knowledge NO document exists.....

The Act in Restraint of Appeals of 1533
http://home.freeuk.net/don-aitken/ast/h8a.html#145

Guess your best knowledge isn't very good.



just for the sake of clarity since I have seen so little from you quote it.


You can just follow the link and read it.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/20/2010 12:15:11 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Divine Right of Kings


yeh like the sword to his throat when he signed the magna charta to get his fuckin head wacked off



Excellent case of the impermanence of law in the face of power.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/20/2010 12:21:38 AM   
Musicmystery


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Act in Restraint of Appeals

(1533. 24 Henry VIII. c. 12. 3 S. R. 427. The whole act reprinted in G. and H. 187-195.)

WHERE by divers sundry old authentic histories and chronicles, it is manifestly declared and expressed, that this realm of England is an empire, and so hath been accepted in the world, governed by one supreme head and king, having the dignity and royal estate of the imperial crown of the same, unto whom a body politic, compact of all sorts and degrees of people, divided in terms, and by names of spiritualty and temporalty, be bounden and ought to bear, next to God, a natural and humble obedience: he being also institute and furnished, by the goodness and sufferance of Almighty God, with plenary, whole, and entire power, pre-eminence, authority, prerogative and jurisdiction, to render and yield justice, and final determination to all manner of folk, residents, or subjects within this his realm, in all causes, matters, debates, and contentions, happening to occur, insurge, or begin within the limits thereof, without restraint, or provocation to any foreign princes or potentates of the world; the body spiritual whereof having power, when any cause of the law divine happened to come in question, or of spiritual learning, then it was declared, interpreted, and showed by that part of the said body politic, called the spiritualty, now being usually called the English Church, which always hath been reputed, and also found of that sort, that both for knowledge, integrity, and sufficiency of number, it hath been always thought, and is also at this hour, sufficient and meet of itself without the intermeddling of any exterior person or persons, to declare and determine all such doubts, and to administer all such offices and duties, as to their rooms spiritual doth appertain; for the due administration whereof, and to keep them from corruption and sinister affection. the king's most noble progenitors, and the antecessors of the nobles of this realm, have sufficiently endowed the said Church, both with honour and possessions; and the laws temporal, for trial of property of lands and goods, and for the conservation of the people of this realm in unity and peace, without rapine or spoil, was and yet is administered, adjudged, and executed by sundry judges and ministers of the other part of the said body politic, called the temporalty; and both their authorities and jurisdictions do conjoin together in the due administration of justice, the one to help the other.

II. And whereas the king, his most noble progenitors, and the nobility and commons of this said realm, at divers and sundry parliaments, as well as in the time of King Edward I., Edward III., Richard II., Henry IV., and other noble kings of this realm, made sundry ordinances, laws, statutes, and provisions for the entire and sure conservation of the prerogatives, liberties, and pre-eminences of the said imperial crown of this realm, and of the jurisdiction spiritual and temporal of the same, to keep it from the annoyance as well of the see of Rome, as from the authority of other foreign potentates, attempting the diminution or violation thereof, as often, and from time to time, as any such annoyance or attempt might be known or espied;

And notwithstanding the said good statutes and ordinances made in the time of the king's most noble progenitors, in preservation of the authority and prerogative of the said imperial crown, as is aforesaid; yet nevertheless since the making of the said good statutes and ordinances, divers and sundry inconveniences and dangers, not provided for plainly by the said former acts, statutes, and ordinances, have arisen and sprung by reason of appeals sued out of this realm to the see of Rome, in causes testamentary, causes of matrimony and divorces, right of tithes, oblations and obventions, not only to the great inquietation, vexation, trouble, cost and charges of the king's highness, and many of his subjects and residents in this his realm, but also to the great delay and let to the true and speedy determination of the said causes, for so much as the parties appealing to the said Court of Rome most commonly do the same for the delay of justice;

And forasmuch as the great distance of way is so far out of this realm, so that the necessary proofs, nor the true knowledge of the cause, can neither there be so well known, nor the witnesses there so well examined, as within this realm, so that the parties grieved by means of the said appeals be most times without remedy:

In consideration whereof the king's highness, his nobles and commons, considering the great enormities, dangers, long delays and hurts, that as well to his highness, as to his said nobles, subjects, commons, and residents of this his realm, in the said causes testamentary, causes of matrimony and divorces, tithes, oblations and obventions, do daily ensue, does therefore by his royal assent, and by the assent of the lords spiritual and temporal, and the commons, in this present parliament assembled, and by authority of the same, enact, establish, and ordain, that all causes testamentary, causes of matrimony and divorces, rights of tithes, oblations and obventions (the knowledge whereof by the goodness of princes of this realm, and by the laws and customs of the same, appertaineth to the spiritual jurisdiction of this realm) already commenced, moved, depending, being, happening, or hereafter coming in contention, debate, or question within this realm, or within any the king's dominions, or marches of the same, or elsewhere, whether they concern the king our sovereign lord, his heirs and successors, or any other subjects or residents within the same, of what degree soever they be, shall be from henceforth heard, examined, discussed, clearly, finally, and definitively adjudged and determined within the king's jurisdiction and authority and not elsewhere, in such courts spiritual and temporal of the same, as the natures, conditions, and qualities of the causes and matters aforesaid in contention, or hereafter happening in contention, shall require, without having any respect to any custom, use, or sufferance, in hindrance, let, or prejudice of the same, or to any other thing used or suffered to the contrary thereof by any other manner of person or persons in any manner of wise; any foreign inhibitions, appeals, sentences, summons, citations, suspensions, interdictions, excommunications, restraints, judgments, or any other process or impediments, of what natures, names, qualities, or conditions soever they be, from the see of Rome, or any other foreign courts or potentates of the world, or from and out of this realm, or any other the king's dominions, or marches of the same, to the see of Rome, or to any other foreign courts or potentates, to the let or impediment thereof in any wise notwithstanding.

And that it shall be lawful to the king our sovereign lord, and to his heirs and successors, and to all other subjects or residents within this realm, or within any the king's dominions, or marches of the same, notwithstanding that hereafter it should happen any excommengement, excommunications, interdictions, citations, or any other censures, or foreign process out of any outward parts, to be fulminate, promulged, declared, or put in execution within this said realm, or in any other place or places, for any of the causes before rehearsed, in prejudice, derogation, or contempt of this said Act, and the very true meaning and execution thereof may and shall nevertheless as well pursue, execute, have, and enjoy the effects, profits, benefits, and commodities of all such processes, sentences, judgments, and determinations done, or hereafter to be done, in any of the said courts spiritual or temporal, as the cases shall require, within the limits, power, and authority of this the king's said realm, and dominions and marches of the same, and those only, and none other to take place, and to be firmly observed and obeyed within the same.

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RE: Concession Of England To The Pope. 1213 - 4/20/2010 1:17:05 AM   
LadyEllen


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You really are very fond of the notion of contracts RO, arent you? Something of an expert too it would seem?

Please tell us all, especially me, how this might qualify as a contract and how it might prevail until the days of Henry VIII let alone until today?

E

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