RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (Full Version)

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lally2 -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 8:35:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

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ORIGINAL: pompeii

I'm not into bestiality but I'm interested in understanding all aspects of kinky sex and wonder openly ... does sex with an animal who by nature can't "give consent"(e.g., blowjob of a horse or fucking a female sheep or ... whatever) constitute abuse of that animal?



You have to keep in mind that when we talk of "consent" that it assumes a verbal and mutual agreement. As of yet, the majority of animals are not able to communicate to humans in the same language; thus to apply the concept of consent is to assume a concept based on nothing but presumption on our part.



and its the presumption that the dog/dolphin/ape (and all other promiscuous creatures dark has been watching - oh yes, penguins) are happy with the situation.  the presumption is the arrogant bit apart from anything else.

personally i have yet to see a dog jump on a human for a shag - im sure someone will now pipe up and say it happens to them all the time [&:].  ive had dogs all my life, theyve never ever tried to really actually fuck me (ive had my leg pumped, but who hasnt).  neither has any of my horses, cats or poultry.  i have farmers for friends and country folk all around me and theyve never said 'watch out for that bull the bugger will rape you' or 'damn that dog of mine!'.

its therefore reasonable to assume that on an average day with an average barn yard animal sex with a human is not in the forefront of their mind.


I too grew up in rural areas as a youngster and I can relate a story regarding an offspring of a neighbour that will contradict  this: "...they've never ever tried to really actually fuck..." and the family pet.



ah, well, i knew someone would come up with an anecdote on that - but ok - i stand corrected. [&:]




LaTigresse -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 8:35:51 AM)

Anyone even looks wrong at my fur babies and they run the risk of getting shot.

Just ick eww yuck....No fucking way!




heartcream -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 10:56:41 AM)

I am disgusted with the people sticking up for this. It is wrong and doesnt matter how long it has been going on or how animals imitate the unconscious crap going on in us unhealed and sick damaged humans. It is wrong and has always been wrong. Leave the animals alone you twisted up bits of human.







LaTigresse -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 11:29:19 AM)

Or what HC said!




allthatjaz -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 11:37:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

I am disgusted with the people sticking up for this. It is wrong and doesnt matter how long it has been going on or how animals imitate the unconscious crap going on in us unhealed and sick damaged humans. It is wrong and has always been wrong. Leave the animals alone you twisted up bits of human.



So what are you saying?!? are you saying that we shouldn't be discussing this? are you saying that we are sick, damaged and twisted bits of human because we dared to say 'Its been going on for thousands of years'?
If you don't want to discuss it then stay away from the topic but to come here and throw insults at anyone who has added more than a one liner is out of order.

Signed
Maria... vegan..animal lover...not into bestiality but always prepared to discuss it.





RCdc -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 11:56:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
So what are you saying?!? are you saying that we shouldn't be discussing this? are you saying that we are sick, damaged and twisted bits of human because we dared to say 'Its been going on for thousands of years'?
If you don't want to discuss it then stay away from the topic but to come here and throw insults at anyone who has added more than a one liner is out of order.

Signed
Maria... vegan..animal lover...not into bestiality but always prepared to discuss it.




QFT (minus the vegan bit[:)]).

If discussing a subject = being twisted, then count me in.  I would rather discuss a subject and make people aware of it and it's consequences than just brush it under a carpet, hide it and hope that it stays there.  I find that very irresponsible.

the.dark.




SailingBum -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 12:39:08 PM)

Fast reply

girl gets on hands and knees.  dog sniffs around and mounts  ...  how is that cruel???  I am not saying i agree or disagree with animal sex.  Just trying to figure out the cruelness of it.

BadOne




sweetsub1957 -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 12:44:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
personally i have yet to see a dog jump on a human for a shag - im sure someone will now pipe up and say it happens to them all the time [&:].  ive had dogs all my life, theyve never ever tried to really actually fuck me (ive had my leg pumped, but who hasnt). 

Yes, i am going to pipe up. i can still remember times, many years ago when i was a child, my siblings and i would be on the living room floor playing games, then the family dog would come up and latch onto one of us & start making fucking motions. i would try like hell to get away from him but i was not big enough or strong enough, so my mother would have to pull him away and put him outside. Looking back on it, he was in exactly the proper position to do the dirty and there was NO question about what he was attempting. i find it hard to believe that our family dog is the only one like that out there.

~sweetsub~




sweetsub1957 -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 12:51:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Anyone even looks wrong at my fur babies and they run the risk of getting shot.

Just ick eww yuck....No fucking way!


i'm with You on that one. Anyone tries anything remotely weird with my critters and they will have MAJOR hell to pay!!! MAJOR.




lally2 -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 12:57:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Fast reply

girl gets on hands and knees.  dog sniffs around and mounts  ...  how is that cruel???  I am not saying i agree or disagree with animal sex.  Just trying to figure out the cruelness of it.

BadOne



hello smoochable (( - well it might be cruel to the girl of course -

in the case of the excerpt pompei set up in the OP it was definitely cruel to the guy (he died) cant help wondering how much pain he went through, a perforated colon is not a particularly pleasant way to go i dont think and his mum and dad must have gone through some sort of hell.  how they even got the stallions cock into a mans anus is hard to fathom, it must have hurt the horse and i suppose depending on the training the horse went through and how they got it to fuck a man is anyones guess, but id rather not try to imagine it.

i suppose you could argue that the dog isnt being cruelly abused when its of its own free will.  some people are saying its inherent in animals to have sex out of specie, ive never personally heard of that, except between a horse and a donkey and even then it isnt always plain sailing getting those two breeds to accept each other.

anyhoo - xx




reynardfox -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 1:22:50 PM)

This is about cruelty to animals, which is wrong, full stop.




lally2 -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 1:24:26 PM)

ok, ive just read the wikkepedia on animal sexuality.  from what i can make out the liger (lion/tiger) offspring were created by two cats in next door runs with no other sexual outlet, but they were cats, not completely different species.  the moose seen chassing the horse for sex is also explainable.  most herbivores compete for mates, many dont get to mate due to youth or inferiority, but sexual hubris is strong and a horse probably seemed highly attractive at the time. the polar bear/grizzly combo, again, not completely different in species either.  we apparently come from a mixing of apes, again of the same species.  the orangutan who accosted a woman didnt actually maintain erection for long enough, but we come from apes and the guy saw some correlation there somewhere clearly.

if this is the argument for bestiality - that some animals have been seen fornicating with other animals not a million miles apart from their own species it still doesnt swing for me.

besides im damn sure the orangutan wasnt thinking 'im feeling kinky today, howsabout some extra species rumpy pumpy'

the next argument will be that because a type of mole impregnates new born moles that we now have an excuse to molest children.

doesnt wash




LadyEllen -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:06:49 PM)


Consent is rarely an available defence in law, even when pleaded by the victim
An animal lacks all legal capacity, including to consent
The “consent” argued can only be judged by the animal’s reaction once the act is begun or when it is completed and this is no consent
Majority consensus morality indicates animal welfare to be important
The law reflects the majority consensus view of animal welfare, places a duty of care on owners and criminalizes abuse and neglect
Majority consensus morality indicates bestiality to be immoral
The law reflects the majority consensus view and criminalizes bestiality
Cruelty is as much in its effects as it is in its intent
Bestiality is cruel by virtue of intent or recklessness in commencing the act as to its potentially harmful effects on the animal
E




Wolf2Bear -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:10:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

I am disgusted with the people sticking up for this. It is wrong and doesnt matter how long it has been going on or how animals imitate the unconscious crap going on in us unhealed and sick damaged humans. It is wrong and has always been wrong. Leave the animals alone you twisted up bits of human.




Do not presume that the ones who are offering a debate from the other POV are advocating bestiality.....nothing is further from the truth.

edited to add: it's a damn shame when a person is challenging the concepts and the reasoning and NOT the actual act itself and is summarily tarred and feathered. Which basically is utter bullshit.




candisa -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:10:23 PM)

[8|] This subject made me want to do a bit of research...

http://www.articlesbase.com/culture-articles/goat-gives-birth-to-humanlike-creature-1279227.html

where does the end [&:]




RCdc -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:33:02 PM)

quote:

ok, ive just read the wikkepedia on animal sexuality.  from what i can make out the liger (lion/tiger) offspring were created by two cats in next door runs with no other sexual outlet, but they were cats, not completely different species. 


I don't really advise study from wiki, Lally.  You are much better off researching just natural history programmes from my personal POV - anything but wiki.  Wiki is only as good as the people post, and lots of them just use chinese whispers (if that makes any sense).

Whilst LadyE makes a pretty mean case, for me it doesn't work when I don't personally believe in the concept of consent anyway.  Humans don't 'consent'.  Animals don't 'consent'.  Consent is more a christian concept that has bled into life in general like lots of religious stuff - to explain 'will'.  It's just a badly conceived idea for me and a way of mixing law with religion(in a sense).

The human goat stuff is urban legend and due to malnutrition, not beastiality.

the.dark.





Kana -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:34:33 PM)

only if she uses her teeth




LadyEllen -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:36:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

Whilst LadyE makes a pretty mean case, for me it doesn't work when I don't personally believe in the concept of consent anyway.  Humans don't 'consent'.  Animals don't 'consent'.  Consent is more a christian concept that has bled into life in general like lots of religious stuff - to explain 'will'.  It's just a badly conceived idea for me and a way of mixing law with religion(in a sense).



Did you read the summary or the full text?

E




Steelslilbit -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:42:58 PM)

Wow.  All I have to say about all this is wow.  Thus far (and yes, unlike some people who feel the need to comment about just one post or another) I have read the entire thread (with exception of what looks to be posts deleted, I'm guessing here, by the admins).  This is a hideously sick and twisted thing that people have been doing to animal for indeed thousands of years.  I am in no way shape or form in any mood to approve of such a thing in the forms of which I can stop it, which is as some people have righteously stated, my own animals.  I don't approve of it to other people's animals either but unless we all walk around with cameras on us to constantly monitor the things we do, it's just not going to happen.  It isn't right to force yourself on any other being without permission, and while I have to agree with the notion that verbal consent (since WE AS HUMAN POSSES THE ABILITY) should count as a highly regarded method of consent....  also as stated by a few, animals don't always ask for consent when going to have sex with their own species none the less any other (case in point, a male lion will bite and hold a female lion so that he can mount her, whether or not she wants to be fucked by said lion, and will in fact beat the crap out of her if she repeatedly tries to get away.  Yes, I love animal specials too.^.^)  That so totally doesn't make it right, but where are the animal rights activists wanting retribution for the female lion who was just raped because she was in heat?  In a perfect world indeed we wouldn't cage or box our animals, however this is the only way we can actually feed the people on the planet and even at that we are poorly failing.  You stop the farms, you kill the society that was nice enough to listen to the majority that said bestiality was wrong, either from lack of food or from humans all of a sudden being put back on the menu (I'm also not a fan of cannibalism either).

What I find it hard to believe is that, while this is a HUGELY emotionally charged issue, that some people took it upon themselves to berate the person who asked a question...and furthermore someone who stated that to begin with they didn't believe it was right.  You continue that kind of responses long enough and all these boards die, not one person out there will have the want to ask any question.  You bet your bottom dollar that these boards are based in the great ol' USA, and therefore this person had every right to ask this question based on their right of free speech.  There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to better understand something that they don't already understand, and if there is you need to turn over your bdsm card and all your equipment.  Cuz I know damn well you did not fully understand everything about this lifestyle when you joined it.

Is beastiality cruelty to animals?  In my own personal opinion and without anything other than my own moral compas to direct me, yes it is OP.  More so with all the rest of the ways there are to satisfy someone's need for sex, be it play toys or prostitution (something else illegal mind you but I'd be for legalizing hookers before making it okay to have sex with animals, and I'm sure that will earn me some berating too), beside someone's very ill need to fuck an animal I can't see why anyone would want to. 

And as for those of you who like to point to the internet for your valid proof of this or that, not everything you read on the internet is the truth.  Even wikipedia is flawed. 

Since I've said my two cents, commence with the berating.  I won't be reading it since I  won't be back to this thread.  Not just because the thought of people out there doing it turns my stomach, but the reactions to the opening question cause me worse than that.  Considering the fact that all of us are a part of a deviant lifestyle choice, one would think we could at least be open to heartfelt questions.  Apparently as the dominant species on this planet we haven't even come that far.  How absolutely sad and pathetic.




Jeffff -> RE: Is bestiality cruelty to animals? (4/22/2010 2:44:31 PM)

I am makeing a list of all the chicks who are not posting their objections here.....:)




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