quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

As someone who worked on a horse stud, I have to say that this is incorrect. Working stallions really are not fussy about what they fuck.
They will happily fuck a donkey, a mule or a gelding (castrated male horse) or a bucket you just happen to leave in their stable.
Women that work in working studs shouldn't wear perfume because stallions can react either violently or sexually to certain smells.

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So you think its OK to do it only if you are gonna kill the animal's babies and eat them but not to do it for pleasure? ... remember this next time you bite into a piece of commercially produced meat . . . they 'milked' those bulls to impregnate the females.

theoretically speaking... unless you force the act, the act is consensual. I never heard of an animal biting or resisting. Many pet animala (not livestock) that are introduced to it continue to seek it voluntarily in the future.

we're omnivores, meat is part of a human diet and has been for millennia.  animals eat animals all of the time.

however, species stick to species when it comes to sex.  even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

just because its physically possible doesnt mean you should.  personally for me, its up there with paedophillia and murder - its taking an innocent victim and abusing it just because they can and want to.  just sick.

ETA - i didnt watch the link, i really didnt want to, but clearly people have and from the strength of it seem to feel that what they saw was acceptable.

some abused kids will respond in much the same way as the waggy tailed dog ive just read mentioned - if its programmed to believe that this is affection it will offer itself.  doesnt make it right though does it.  try doing that to a horse and youll get kicked into next week.  try programming a cat and youll get nowhere.  dogs are psychophants by nature and can be trained to do pretty much anything theyre owner wants, like attack and kill, doesnt make it right there either.

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So you think its OK to do it only if you are gonna kill the animal's babies and eat them but not to do it for pleasure? ... remember this next time you bite into a piece of commercially produced meat . . . they 'milked' those bulls to impregnate the females.

theoretically speaking... unless you force the act, the act is consensual. I never heard of an animal biting or resisting. Many pet animala (not livestock) that are introduced to it continue to seek it voluntarily in the future.

we're omnivores, meat is part of a human diet and has been for millennia.  animals eat animals all of the time.

however, species stick to species when it comes to sex.  even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

just because its physically possible doesnt mean you should.  personally for me, its up there with paedophillia and murder - its taking an innocent victim and abusing it just because they can and want to.  just sick.

ETA - i didnt watch the link, i really didnt want to, but clearly people have and from the strength of it seem to feel that what they saw was acceptable.

some abused kids will respond in much the same way as the waggy tailed dog ive just read mentioned - if its programmed to believe that this is affection it will offer itself.  doesnt make it right though does it.  try doing that to a horse and youll get kicked into next week.  try programming a cat and youll get nowhere.  dogs are psychophants by nature and can be trained to do pretty much anything theyre owner wants, like attack and kill, doesnt make it right there either.

You are misinformed . . . what is a mule or other hybrid? Take a look around the house .... havent you ever seen the dog hump a cat or human? Humping is one of many sex acts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

As someone who worked on a horse stud, I have to say that this is incorrect. Working stallions really are not fussy about what they fuck.
They will happily fuck a donkey, a mule or a gelding (castrated male horse) or a bucket you just happen to leave in their stable.
Women that work in working studs shouldn't wear perfume because stallions can react either violently or sexually to certain smells.

[:)] id agree, but a friend who breeds donkeys and wants to breed a mule has been having all kinds of hastle trying to get the stallion to mount the jenny.  she's had to put them out together in the hope theyll work it out eventually.

ive worked on a stud too.  i was the one who got the job of posting the stallions cock into the mare if he couldnt get it in himself.  a dodgy job it was too [:)] - he was a horny bastard and would have *probably* done a donkey no trouble - my friends stallion seems to be a little more discerning.

just because its gone down in history as an activity doesnt mean its right though.  id like to think that the human being has progressed a tiny bit from believing that this planet and all that lives on it is here solely for our entertainment and gratification, gifted by the gods.

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ORIGINAL: RCdc

Look up birds in particular, those that pair for life... like parrots, certain waterfowls, etc.
Animals are also notorious for imprinting on others when born.

the.dark.

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ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule.  therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual. 

As someone who worked on a horse stud, I have to say that this is incorrect. Working stallions really are not fussy about what they fuck.
They will happily fuck a donkey, a mule or a gelding (castrated male horse) or a bucket you just happen to leave in their stable.
Women that work in working studs shouldn't wear perfume because stallions can react either violently or sexually to certain smells.

[:)] id agree, but a friend who breeds donkeys and wants to breed a mule has been having all kinds of hastle trying to get the stallion to mount the jenny.  she's had to put them out together in the hope theyll work it out eventually.

ive worked on a stud too.  i was the one who got the job of posting the stallions cock into the mare if he couldnt get it in himself.  a dodgy job it was too [:)] - he was a horny bastard and would have *probably* done a donkey no trouble - my friends stallion seems to be a little more discerning.

just because its gone down in history as an activity doesnt mean its right though.  id like to think that the human being has progressed a tiny bit from believing that this planet and all that lives on it is here solely for our entertainment and gratification, gifted by the gods.

He's probably just a lazy bastard [:D] We used to have a Hanoverian that preferred the artificial insemination method to mounting but that was pretty unusual.
Looks like we have done the same kind of work lol
It always amazes me when porn make videos of stallions and women. Its so, so dangerous besides it being wrong. I bet those women don't have any idea about just how dangerous it is.

When I read that first link about that guy being killed I can't help but think that it serves him right.

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ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

What would be interesting to understand is, at what point in history did it become morally wrong?

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ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

I'm not into this, but I have to toss in my two cents after having read everyone's posts and disagreeing with some.

Yes, animals have mated outside of their own species.  My mother had a male cockatiel who was nuts about her hands, and whenever he was in a loving mood he'd fly over and do the dirty on one of her knuckles.  After shooing him away a few dozen times, she'd call him a little pervert and let him finish so he'd leave her alone.  (This is about a male BIRD, so I don't think I'll get in trouble for saying that, lol.)

asexual - act of dominance

Also...my grandma had a nanny goat, and a dog named Teddy.  Teddy really fancied the nanny goat and grandma took pix of times when they both seemed to be having a lot of fun.  Nobody trained either to do this, it was an embarrassment and all anyone could do was laugh.  The family kept the goat for her milk.  Teddy also liked female and male dogs as well.  The male dogs' owners were not happy with Teddy nailing their Fido or whatever.

asexual - act of dominance

I've seen small dogs trying to hump cats, but they were stupid and humped at the face.  Animals don't seem to always try to mate because they're trying to reproduce, and sometimes their sexuality is begging for a Darwin Award. 

asexual - act of dominance

When I was a child, I saw on tv seals.  When the babies were old enough to leave alone for a while, and it was time for the parents to go off to sea, males who hadn't mated stayed behind to rape, and accidentally kill while doing so, the unattended babies.  This goes against helping a species survive, but it happened anyway.

sad but true - i would imagine its natures way of controlling numbers though

Some even masturbate and this is definitely not a part of mere reproduction.  (Beavers have been caught loving up on logs, lol.)

an interesting truth is that in the old days to stop a stallion from masturbating they would strap a sharply studded belt around his belly so he wouldnt flop his thing against himself for a wank - so they wank, dolphins and monkeys to name just two have sex for fun as well as procreation.  we're not the only animals to enjoy our bodies.

Animals aren't noble beasts only because they're animals.

who said they were -

I'm not for beastiality, but can't consider what the male animals seem happy instigating as cruelty.  I'm sure the horse in that article didn't mind, and won't suffer emotionally over what happened to the man he was boinking.

I've even heard of cross species forced lactation happening before.  A friend of mine had a mother cat and kittens.  And an afghan dog.  The kittens grew up full sized but wouldn't stop nursing from their mom, so S got rid of the mother.  Problem solved, right?  No, lol.  One day she called us, screaming she couldn't freaking believe it and we rushed over.  Her virgin dog had been hounded by those cats until she gave up.  We saw the dog on her side on the floor, with I think 7 full grown cats nursing away.  S pulled one cat off and squeezed the teat a little and said, "See, there's milk!"  She was so mad because the cats made her dog look ugly, as she called it.  Nice smooth flat belly was gone, and she had heavy dugs hanging down, lol.

surrogacy has nothing to do with sex.  thats another topic all together

Animals are...animals.  Not noble creatures who would never be as nasty as humans are.

we're animals too you know - the natural world has been boinking, killing and surviving since the dawn of time - doesnt make them noble or nasty, just a life form out to survive best way it can.  humans on the other hand have taken boinking, killing and surviving to some unbelievably crass and arrogant levels. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
So you think its OK to do it only if you are gonna kill the animal's babies and eat them but not to do it for pleasure? ... remember this next time you bite into a piece of commercially produced meat . . . they 'milked' those bulls to impregnate the females.

theoretically speaking... unless you force the act, the act is consensual. I never heard of an animal biting or resisting. Many pet animala (not livestock) that are introduced to it continue to seek it voluntarily in the future.

we're omnivores, meat is part of a human diet and has been for millennia. animals eat animals all of the time.

however, species stick to species when it comes to sex. even a horse and a donkey have to sometimes be 'encouraged' to produce a mule. therefore, in terms of having sex with an animal outside of its species is going against ITS nature and therefore totally wrong and abusive and clearly non-concensual.

just because its physically possible doesnt mean you should. personally for me, its up there with paedophillia and murder - its taking an innocent victim and abusing it just because they can and want to. just sick.

ETA - i didnt watch the link, i really didnt want to, but clearly people have and from the strength of it seem to feel that what they saw was acceptable.

some abused kids will respond in much the same way as the waggy tailed dog ive just read mentioned - if its programmed to believe that this is affection it will offer itself. doesnt make it right though does it. try doing that to a horse and youll get kicked into next week. try programming a cat and youll get nowhere. dogs are psychophants by nature and can be trained to do pretty much anything theyre owner wants, like attack and kill, doesnt make it right there either.

You are misinformed . . . what is a mule or other hybrid? Take a look around the house .... havent you ever seen the dog hump a cat or human? Humping is one of many sex acts.

RS if youre dog is humping youre leg its because he thinks he's more dominant than you - you should stop him before you lose any street cred.

it actually has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with dominance.

if you hump a dog youre basically telling it that youre more dominant than it. in doggy body language youre asserting youreself and doggies like to know where they are in the pack.

its still wrong.

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Dogs must be different on your planet. On my planet dogs even hump stuffed animals, furniture and other inanimate objects they are not trying to exert personal domination over or procreate with for racial domination. I know dogs aren't as smart as people but I am pretty sure they know that humping the couch will not lead to baby couches and give birth to a dominant couch-dog hybrid species. I am pretty damn sure they are doing it because it feels good.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml

Like the majority on this thread, I believe bestiality is wrong. But the topic does create some interesting ethical contradictions....

In breeding livestock it's not uncommon to wank a male to get his sperm -does he consent to what is a sex act? Is it ok because in the context of farming/breeding the person doing the wanking isn't doing it for pleasure? This is a distinction in terms of intent.

Same with insemination - a female animal doesn't consent to being impregnated... But there's the intent distinction again.

If the objection is about "species" - then what about miles? Here a hu
an is forcing two species to commit an act that is taboo to humans o. The grounds of species...

So it seems that forcing animals to do,or be in receipt acts is not ok if a human derives sexual pleasure, but is pretty much ok in all other cases?