RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means

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lusciouslips19 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 6:40:08 AM)
Well we dont have any details do we? We dont know how soon the collar was given or how long they were together or if they have even met in person, ya know. We just dont have the details.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 6:43:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist WOW . . . yes, you are totally off base! Your entire OP is off-base because it operates on the premiss that there is NO accountability or responsibility on the submissive's part. What a crock of shit. “to me that seems like there's a "Master" out there somewhere who doesn't know how to lead” ---perhaps it is the job of the submissive to follow... ya think? “ If she didn't understand the significance or what it represented, then maybe he needed to make sure she did” ---Each party, both Dom and sub are responsible for understanding their own roles. The quote didn't bias interpretation against the Dom . . . you did! Maybe neither are being responsible? Or maybe both are taking responsibility. We don't know and it's doubtful that we ever will. This whole forum is the ultimate in fruitless speculation.For all we know the Dominant knew exactly what he was doing and had hellaciously good reasons for doing so. The one fact we do have is that whatever was wrong has been rectified so his solution worked. (Edited to make it clear my comment wasn't aimed at the luscious one) Absolutely. And my comments were not addressed to the author of the quote but the author of the OP. . . which is terribly speculative and biased.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 6:43:43 AM)
~FR~ Sadly, this has gone from concept to the personal. Talking about responsibility isn't a new idea. Ah well...

ResidentSadist -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 6:46:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Well we dont have any details do we? We dont know how soon the collar was given or how long they were together or if they have even met in person, ya know. We just dont have the details. LMAO.. after this thread, Master may just wake up from a deep sleep with a greasy ass while that collar is being voluntarily returned via his anal canal!

ElizabethAnne -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:11:33 AM)
Sunshine, quote: Sadly, this has gone from concept to the personal. By using an actual quote from a person, it started out as personal. Conceptual would have been expressing the idea without the use of an actual quote. Be well, Elizabeth

Aynne88 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:20:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Sunshine, people aren't stupid. Your motive for starting this thread seems to be well seen. Also, you are NOT ignorant of this subject as this was not the first time its been posted over the years. And your own words BELOW the quote its clear its a hey let's judge this guy badly thread. if you really were ignorant of the concept, you would have stopped at can anyone explain this to me or you could have asked the girl to have her Mster post his view. Your own words below the quote makes your assessment of the MAN in the quote personal. Yeah, you didn't want it to be a judgment thread -- we all see that! You could have easily posted this thread in a question rather than using a quote from someone on the boards and continued on to speak as it seems about the MAN in the quote. angel The judger judging judgment. How ironic. Wow....no kidding Lushy. What balls. Sunshine is one of the most thoughtful, kind, and truly genuine people here, and I am shocked at the drama mama's bringing this into an area of ugliness that I didn't see her intention being at all. Sunny, ignore the usual suspects. Lushy and I have your back. And front. [;)].

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:24:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Well we dont have any details do we? We dont know how soon the collar was given or how long they were together or if they have even met in person, ya know. We just dont have the details. LMAO.. after this thread, Master may just wake up from a deep sleep with a greasy ass while that collar is being voluntarily returned via his anal canal! Everhope????? Is that you??????

leadership527 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:27:01 AM)
Well, I've uncollared Carol (released her as my slave). I did so because I came to the conclusion that being my slave was not in her best interests and I love the woman. I've always said that I love Carol more than I love having a slave and I was doing nothing more than putting my money where my mouth was. There was nothing "passive aggressive", "lazy", "blame-shifting" or any other dark motives involved. In fact, the motive was love -- plain and simple. Between Carol and I there has been a very consistent dynamic from day 1 of our marriage... I want to give her that which she needs and she wants to give me what I need. The uncollaring (and subsequent recollaring) was nothing more than that dynamic playing out. Two people loving each other and trying to do the best they can for their partner. Insofar as whether or not there were other things I might've done -- there are ALWAYS other things to do. In fact, I tried a fair number of them since I really DO like having a slave and the last thing I wanted (well, 2nd to last right behind hurting Carol) was to give up on that. For whatever reasons those things failed. It might've been because I failed in execution somewhere but honestly I don't think so. As it turns out, the conclusion to the story (not surprisingly since Carol feels about me the same way that I feel about her), was when I gave up on the whole M/s thing Carol was forced to take a close look at herself. Did SHE want to give up? Was SHE willing to be less than she could be for me? Her answers to those questions were "no" and so she showed more outright disobedience than I have ever seen from her. I spent days trying to get her to let it go. I argued as persuasively as I knew how that we could be very happy as a husband and wife who happened to be dom and sub. She would have none of it and instead did some real digging inside herself to find the reasons it wasn't working for her and make some alterations. At some point, I had to bow to the inevitable. I could not force her to stop trying without divorcing her or else lying flat out and somehow convincing her I didn't want a slave. I also had to admit the truth... she really did make some very significant internal modifications to herself. So when I felt that it actually WOULD be good for her, I agreed to take her back as my slave.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:35:05 AM)
Jeff, As always, your example is wonderfully insighful and helpful. Thank you for sharing it. Between your and Steven's examples, there's been some real understanding happen. Carol is a lucky woman. Best, sunshine

DarkSteven -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:35:38 AM)
Jeff, best wishes for you and Carol. Know that I respect you and the courses of life which you have chosen for the two of you, and I hope that this turns out well.

bondmaid123 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:36:32 AM)
Jeff, I think the difference here is you did not remove the collar as a way to "browbeat" Carol into changing something with the intention of giving the collar back once she "proved she was serious" or something. It's a completely different perspective on things. The OP would indicate a relationship where the collar was being used as the proverbial "carrot on a stick", so to speak?

ResidentSadist -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:45:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Well we dont have any details do we? We dont know how soon the collar was given or how long they were together or if they have even met in person, ya know. We just dont have the details. LMAO.. after this thread, Master may just wake up from a deep sleep with a greasy ass while that collar is being voluntarily returned via his anal canal! Everhope????? Is that you?????? ROTFLMNAO . . . Touche . . . I think I hate you, you smart ass sexy biotch! I have never wanted to spank you as badly as I do right now!!! Come 'er! (/end of hijack... srry. I had to do that)

leadership527 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:48:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Jeff, best wishes for you and Carol. Know that I respect you and the courses of life which you have chosen for the two of you, and I hope that this turns out well. My general opinion is that when two people lock hands and move through life as a loving team, then it's almost impossible for things to turn out poorly. Whether or not Carol is my "slave" is a trivial consideration in the larger picture of our happiness together. This particular episode, while tearful at the time, really did turn out quite well. It was one of those "turn the corner" sorts of moments. Carol internalized being someone else's property in a way she had never done before. I also found it quite interesting to see what Carol actually values. She apparently places way less value on obeying me than she does on pleasing me. The one command she has utterly rejected in all this time was a command which boiled down, "Don't be the thing which pleases me the most." Interestingly, for all her generally submissive nature, she was perfectly able to put up a very strong show of resistance to that one. Just for a bit of humor in this thread... During her not-my-slave period, she still woke up every morning and asked me what I wanted her to do that day. On about the fifth day, I said "I don't suppose you'd obey if I told you to stop trying to be a slave". She looked at me and said, "Nope, that's the great thing about not being your slave. I don't have to obey."

leadership527 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 7:56:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bondmaid123 I think the difference here is you did not remove the collar as a way to "browbeat" Carol into changing something with the intention of giving the collar back once she "proved she was serious" or something. It's a completely different perspective on things. The OP would indicate a relationship where the collar was being used as the proverbial "carrot on a stick", so to speak? Agreed.. but that points out something that other posters noted. We take these posts that someone writes and we infer a HUGE amount about the relationship based upon them. But inevitably, we are only seeing little slices of life, not the actual detail of someone's relationship. Someone's word choices when the make the posting can always be construed in a lot of ways. Personally, when I read someone's post, I do the best I can to construe it in a loving and positive way. I'm oft-times way more intrigued with how people on these boards interpret things than the original topic itself. And, just to be fair, I'm not super-human. I LOVE having a slave by my admittedly extreme standards of that. There was a large part of me that was secretly hoping she'd figure out some way to make it work. I did the best I could to hide that part from her. I honestly tried to lead her away from that goal. But she knows me too well after all these years to not know the truth. So the carrot and stick were still there.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 8:12:44 AM)
Hello Jeff, You know I usually try to see things in the best possible light, too. As Level pointed out, this may be something of a downfall for me. I've been involved with a man who absolutely believes in his taking responsibility for the relationship. There have been a number of other threads as well recently discussing responsibility. I guess it's been on my mind. It's true that we do infer a lot. Sure. That's how conversations happen. Communication always comes in three forms - what we are saying, what the person hears (or reads / infers in this case) and what is the real message. I don't think that carrots and sticks are bad things. Doesn't a lot of life really come down to that? We go to work for the money carrot or the feeling good carrot? Best, sunshine

leadership527 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 8:25:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss I don't think that carrots and sticks are bad things. Doesn't a lot of life really come down to that? We go to work for the money carrot or the feeling good carrot? Agreed and the nature of the "carrot and stick" in my example was different because the motive was different. The carrot and stick were a mandatory part of the situation, not something I was placing there to get my way. In fact, I did my damndest to remove that from the equation. I just felt I should mention it in the interests of full disclosure. By the way, I didn't read your OP here as negative. What I read was someone who had a negative interpretation of situation and wanted a sanity check on that... an entirely positive thing to do. I read someone who wanted to see other alternatives than the sinister ones and was asking for some examples. In the end, someone reaching for the positive as opposed to embracing the negative.

DesFIP -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 10:25:03 AM)
Situations such as the one sunny quoted make me suspicious. But I cherish my cynicism. Honestly if she wasn't worthy of it to begin with, then why did he give it to her? Did she know what was required to keep it? How good is their communication? Did he explain fully? To me this screams unexpressed expectations, on both parts. And that is a recipe for disaster. But someone (who alas I can't remember) said in another thread some months ago that when she disobeys it doesn't mean she isn't still his slave, she's just a disobedient one. And that struck me as a damn good statement because it implies that the ability to be perfect is never there. For me, if he would pull it off when I messed up, I wouldn't agree to let him put it back on because I expect to fail. I'm human and therefore fallible. What I'm not is someone strong enough to have things on that insecure a note. Commitment to me needs to run both ways. If he isn't committed to teaching me, then I'm not committed to pleasing him. Steven's situation is different because they hadn't made a commitment yet, they discovered early that there was insufficient compatibility. And that's a good thing to find out early.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 10:34:55 AM)
Its a bullshit tactic, and I don't agree with it. But perhaps it was needed, if she responded well to it. But it is not the owner's responsibility to make his property behave properly, and be willingly obedient. Its not on him to adjust her attitude, or her way of thinking. That's all on her.

corsetgirl -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 10:39:55 AM)
To each his own level of disciplining a sub; however, that would not be for me. I have enough insecurities of wanting and trying to please the dom. This also makes me wonder how many doms would use that technique only to find this can backfire on them? By the same token, some subs can walk away and find another dom who has a better connection or compatibility.

Missokyst -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 10:46:45 AM)
No comment on the OP but it just irks me that people can't understand we ALL make judgements about things. Hell, if you did not make a judgement (decision and or opinion) about something everyone would be sending money to flakes that are stuck in africa. Judging something is not bad. Judging by your own standard is not bad. It may not be on target. It may not be politically correct but shoot.. anyone who does not have an opinion on something might as well be hooked up to an IV in a coma. quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss At no point did I say they were wrong. I said that TO ME it smacks of blame shifting. C'mon, Sunshine-do you really think that putting the words 'to me' in front of a judgement makes it any less of a judgement?

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