RE: African complicity in the slave trade....

RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (Full Version)

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heartcream -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 9:27:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Well, speaking as a transsexual who lost everything on announcing it eight and a half years ago, it was obviously dead easy for me to build an international business employing a dozen people over the last seven and a half years. No struggle whatsoever, it all just fell in my lap. Hopefully offices number 5 and 6 in countries 3 and 4 will soon fall in my lap too, along with another two dozen employees, to make our turnover around $15million, 'cause considering the lack of effort I put into it all and the easy ride I've had it must just be due to the unfair advantages that working class transsexuals have in life. E Good for you for all your success in your hardship and good for you for being rich now and all of that. Do you really believe that everyone who struggles, works hard, and there is a lot of these people out here banging our their life everyday, do you think they are all successful? They arent. People have this attitude if I can do it so can you Why doesnt it work out that way then? I know some of these people, they work hard, damn hard, really hard all their life and end up with nothing. What is up with that? Do you think they didnt work as hard as you? They dont get to brag at all, how sad is that? Nope. Life isnt fair still, that glass isnt alway half full. If you dont see this in spite of your own obvious struggles then that is a sad state of affairs.

tazzygirl -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 9:31:16 AM)
"Fair... a place where pigs win ribbons" Life isnt fair. Never has been, never will be. Its time to face that reality and deal. This fantasy land so many have about equality and fairness is what keeps so many angry and delusioned.

LadyEllen -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 11:00:36 AM)
What can I say HC? Yes, you need a little "luck" - which is actually being prepared for opportunity, as well as hard work. But you also need to know how to take calculated risk and be willing to take it. Those who defeat themselves from the off with fear of taking risks or failing to adequately analyse risks, those unprepared for opportunity - these are employees, people who could easily do what I did but do not. They work hard, thats great and all, but its me that takes the risk, its me that sees and exploits the opportunity so its me that succeeds. There wont be any commiserations if I should fail either - no prizes for coming last. It would then be for me to start over, not sit there crying about how unfair it all is, or for me to accept that maybe I wasnt cut out for success, and find a job. E

heartcream -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 11:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen What can I say HC? Yes, you need a little "luck" - which is actually being prepared for opportunity, as well as hard work. But you also need to know how to take calculated risk and be willing to take it. Those who defeat themselves from the off with fear of taking risks or failing to adequately analyse risks, those unprepared for opportunity - these are employees, people who could easily do what I did but do not. They work hard, thats great and all, but its me that takes the risk, its me that sees and exploits the opportunity so its me that succeeds. There wont be any commiserations if I should fail either - no prizes for coming last. It would then be for me to start over, not sit there crying about how unfair it all is, or for me to accept that maybe I wasnt cut out for success, and find a job. E Why not? What is your issue with sitting and crying about injustices? Do you worry that if you start you wont finish ever? Do you think it is unseemly to cry? Is crying unnatural, unhealthy? Is there nothing to be gained or learned from sitting and crying about the factual unfairness at times? This sentence is a sample of the heavy spirit/mental-polarized permeations I am flash-lighting through out certain posters pov's on this .

LadyEllen -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 2:02:18 PM)
The world is a harsh struggle for survival - one can either give up and accept whatever others determine should come one's way or fight as best one can and never give up. Are setbacks upsetting? Yes, but its in how you respond to them. If one chooses to sit down and cry and give up then no one is going to come help, because theyre all busy with their own struggle in the final analysis, and one will never get anywhere. These are harsh lessons HC, lessons I learned well at the very bottom of the barrel. Its you v the rest of the world. This is not how I was brought up. This made the lessons even harder for me. But it also means I take a far more charitable attitude than their learning may imply. Charity does not amount to commiseration however, but doing something about it - I dont mind helping anyone, but I'm not going to agree to let people wallow and agree that its all down to a big bad world that they dont get a break and support them so they can wallow further. E

thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 2:15:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl "Fair... a place where pigs win ribbons" Life isnt fair. Never has been, never will be. Its time to face that reality and deal. This fantasy land so many have about equality and fairness is what keeps so many angry and delusioned. So you are against life being fair? Are you against people treating one another with respect? Maybe you should move to Italy with merc.

slvemike4u -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 2:18:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl "Fair... a place where pigs win ribbons" Life isnt fair. Never has been, never will be. Its time to face that reality and deal. This fantasy land so many have about equality and fairness is what keeps so many angry and delusioned. So you are against life being fair? Are you against people treating one another with respect? Maybe you should move to Italy with merc. The red tinted sentence is just dripping with irony(tinting mine)coming from you tommie....lol.

Silence8 -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 2:21:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl "Fair... a place where pigs win ribbons" Life isnt fair. Never has been, never will be. Its time to face that reality and deal. This fantasy land so many have about equality and fairness is what keeps so many angry and delusioned. So you are against life being fair? Are you against people treating one another with respect? Maybe you should move to Italy with merc. Funny. I thought Tazzy was pro-'Change.' [:D]

thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 2:53:20 PM)
quote: The red tinted sentence is just dripping with irony(tinting mine)coming from you tommie....lol. You spend gallons of ink calling me names and you post this shit...

Louve00 -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 3:06:34 PM)
Funny. I thought her comment on it all was dead on. What good does it do to sit and cry over it? What good does it do to point your finger like a child and say "Look, look....life isn't fair!!" You can either make it your life's mission to keep yourself blameless by blaming everyone else and get nowhere...or try on your own. You're either going to lose something you never had, or get somewhere on your own merit, and be going somewhere you never would have gone without the effort. And just for the record, some people fail many, many times at a thing before they accomplish it. But they succeeded by not giving up.

WyldHrt -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:05:23 PM)
quote: No, I got your point. And there is honor in a struggle. But what I am saying wouldn't it be nice if no one had to struggle to "prove" their abilities? Would it be nice? Of course. That said, please point me to any place in human history where every child got started in life with exactly the same opportunities, any time when life was totally fair within a human society. It has never happened. The only way such a thing could happen is some form of communism, where the gov't takes everything and divides it equally, or where the children are taken away and raised by the gov't. Even if it were possible to implement this system without corruption (unlikely), what would be the motivation for people to do their best and excel? Many people, especially immigrants and lower middle class folks, do so not only for themselves, but so that their children have a better start in life than they did. Would you really go to medical school if the kid flipping burgers was making the same amount of money that you would as a physician? Would your motivation to work hard be as strong if you knew that your children were not permitted to benefit from your success? Say that you invent and patent a widget that revolutionizes manufacturing in some way. You are now a self made millionaire. Would you like to be told that you can't send your kids to private school, or pay for extra tutoring if they need it because it isn't fair to other people's children? That you can't read to your children at night because doing so will give them an edge over children who don't get read to? That said, it seems that you think I'm against changing the current system. That is not the case. I'm a big believer in education, and the state of school systems all over this country is a disgrace. Change is needed, but throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Nothing will change without a fundamental shift in people's attitudes toward education. Look at Japan. The country was nearly destroyed in WWII, and now they are a global power. Why? There are several reasons, but one of the most important is the emphasis put on education by the parents and the communities. In this country, kids are more worried about how to get the latest iPhone or $100 sneakers that their friends have than about learning how to get ahead in life.... and we wonder why they aren't succeeding?

DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:10:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl "Fair... a place where pigs win ribbons" Life isnt fair. Never has been, never will be. Its time to face that reality and deal. This fantasy land so many have about equality and fairness is what keeps so many angry and delusioned. If that is truely it Tazzy then why even discuss anything here since there isn't really any good reason for it. Life is what it is and there is no way to change how things are done!

DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:13:20 PM)
[quote]ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The world is a harsh struggle for survival - one can either give up and accept whatever others determine should come one's way or fight as best one can and never give up. Are setbacks upsetting? Yes, but its in how you respond to them. If one chooses to sit down and cry and give up then no one is going to come help, because theyre all busy with their own struggle in the final analysis, and one will never get anywhere. These are harsh lessons HC, lessons I learned well at the very bottom of the barrel. Its you v the rest of the world. This is not how I was brought up. This made the lessons even harder for me. But it also means I take a far more charitable attitude than their learning may imply. Charity does not amount to commiseration however, but doing something about it - I dont mind helping anyone, but I'm not going to agree to let people wallow and agree that its all down to a big bad world that they dont get a break and support them so they can wallow further. E [/quote] So screw everyone unless they can prove to me that they aren't what....lazy? Taking advantage?......Charity really doesn't begin at home for you does it.

DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:16:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Funny. I thought her comment on it all was dead on. What good does it do to sit and cry over it? What good does it do to point your finger like a child and say "Look, look....life isn't fair!!" You can either make it your life's mission to keep yourself blameless by blaming everyone else and get nowhere...or try on your own. You're either going to lose something you never had, or get somewhere on your own merit, and be going somewhere you never would have gone without the effort. And just for the record, some people fail many, many times at a thing before they accomplish it. But they succeeded by not giving up. So basically shut the fuck up and quit complaining. If you were really "talented" then you'd succeed....

thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:22:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: No, I got your point. And there is honor in a struggle. But what I am saying wouldn't it be nice if no one had to struggle to "prove" their abilities? Would it be nice? Of course. Thank you for your candor That said, please point me to any place in human history where every child got started in life with exactly the same opportunities, any time when life was totally fair within a human society. It has never happened. Where had representative democracy been present before it was tried? The only way such a thing could happen is some form of communism, where the gov't takes everything and divides it equally, or where the children are taken away and raised by the gov't. What is your bassis for this bullshit premis? Even if it were possible to implement this system without corruption (unlikely), what would be the motivation for people to do their best and excel? Of all the people in the world how many excell? Many people, especially immigrants and lower middle class folks, do so not only for themselves, but so that their children have a better start in life than they did. Would you really go to medical school if the kid flipping burgers was making the same amount of money that you would as a physician? So you are saying that there is equal prestige and perks in both occupations? Would your motivation to work hard be as strong if you knew that your children were not permitted to benefit from your success? Pretty much the mind set of most of amerika...except the rich Say that you invent and patent a widget that revolutionizes manufacturing in some way. You are now a self made millionaire. Would you like to be told that you can't send your kids to private school, or pay for extra tutoring if they need it because it isn't fair to other people's children? That you can't read to your children at night because doing so will give them an edge over children who don't get read to? What a mindless pile of shit...you are making an either or situation out of something that is not If you are a gazillionaire and taxes reduce you to a billionaire do you think that would keep you from sending your kids to private school?. That said, it seems that you think I'm against changing the current system. That is not the case. I'm a big believer in education, and the state of school systems all over this country is a disgrace. Again more unsubstantiated bullshit...There are some school systems that need fixing. For you to characterize the whole system as a disgrace is assinine Change is needed, but throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Nothing will change without a fundamental shift in people's attitudes toward education. Look at Japan. The country was nearly destroyed in WWII, and now they are a global power. Why? There are several reasons, but one of the most important is the emphasis put on education by the parents and the communities. Since I used to teach school in Japan I may have some understanding of that system which was instituted a long time before Japan lost WWII. The fact that Japan does not have a significant defense budget(Japan's defense is the U.S.)Allows her plenty of money to put into education. Why is it that schools in wealthy districts have students that do better than the poorer districts if money is not part of the solution? In this country, kids are more worried about how to get the latest iPhone or $100 sneakers that their friends have than about learning how to get ahead in life.... Perhaps your children are that way but you are not qualified to speak for all children or even a majority of them. and we wonder why they aren't succeeding? Have you taken note of the list of Nobel and Pulitzer prize winners who are graduates of the American educational system?

DomYngBlk -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 4:40:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: No, I got your point. And there is honor in a struggle. But what I am saying wouldn't it be nice if no one had to struggle to "prove" their abilities? Would it be nice? Of course. That said, please point me to any place in human history where every child got started in life with exactly the same opportunities, any time when life was totally fair within a human society. It has never happened. The only way such a thing could happen is some form of communism, where the gov't takes everything and divides it equally, or where the children are taken away and raised by the gov't. Even if it were possible to implement this system without corruption (unlikely), what would be the motivation for people to do their best and excel? Many people, especially immigrants and lower middle class folks, do so not only for themselves, but so that their children have a better start in life than they did. Would you really go to medical school if the kid flipping burgers was making the same amount of money that you would as a physician? Would your motivation to work hard be as strong if you knew that your children were not permitted to benefit from your success? Say that you invent and patent a widget that revolutionizes manufacturing in some way. You are now a self made millionaire. Would you like to be told that you can't send your kids to private school, or pay for extra tutoring if they need it because it isn't fair to other people's children? That you can't read to your children at night because doing so will give them an edge over children who don't get read to? That said, it seems that you think I'm against changing the current system. That is not the case. I'm a big believer in education, and the state of school systems all over this country is a disgrace. Change is needed, but throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Nothing will change without a fundamental shift in people's attitudes toward education. Look at Japan. The country was nearly destroyed in WWII, and now they are a global power. Why? There are several reasons, but one of the most important is the emphasis put on education by the parents and the communities. In this country, kids are more worried about how to get the latest iPhone or $100 sneakers that their friends have than about learning how to get ahead in life.... and we wonder why they aren't succeeding? Of course there isn't a perfect example of this.....hence the reason to strive to create one...... I don't agree with the premise we wouldn't have the motivation to create.....And for this I make a difference in creating things from marketing things. Bill Gates didn't invent the modern pc or program...he simply marketed it to his advantage, Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile, he marketed it the best. Real creators , inventors simply don't do it for the money they do it for the love of it. Are you telling me you wouldn't do anything unless you are paid to do it? I don't believe that. And, while we are at it, does it make sense that people that are simply involved in financial dealings which do not create one simple things should be able to make 100's of millions of dollars per year? The guy that drove Lehmans in the ground was doing nothing but bundling things that were worth x and convincing people to buy them for y. It created not one thing in this world. Yet, the behavior is rewarded. And for Doctors.....there are plenty of doctors that practice for the money but do you suppose that the care you get is good? I mean that leads one into talking about how and why people are allowed into Medical School. Does it make sense to base those things simply on test scores? I think not. Its nice to see that you think change would be good. I had thought that maybe you thought status quo was really good enough. Lastly, the old canard about not throwing money at education is a bunch of shit. You spend the same amount of money on facilities, boos, classrooms, computers, teacher/student ratios that you do in some of the more affluent suburbs of this country and bring that the inner city. I would bet my ass that test scores in the inner cities would fly to the top. Step into an inner city elementary school someday. Compare/contrast. It isn't even an arguement.

thompsonx -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 5:17:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Funny. I thought her comment on it all was dead on. What good does it do to sit and cry over it? What good does it do to point your finger like a child and say "Look, look....life isn't fair!!" Lucky for you that Crispus Attuks did not share your opinion. Crispus Attuks was that black man who said to the English that the way they were treating the colonist was unfair...The Britts shot him to death he was the first man to die in the American Revolution. You can either make it your life's mission to keep yourself blameless by blaming everyone else and get nowhere...or try on your own. If this were true you would be the govonor or the president...obviously you are just a lazy phoque because you have not achieved any real success in your life. You're either going to lose something you never had, or get somewhere on your own merit, and be going somewhere you never would have gone without the effort If you never had freedom would you miss it? And just for the record, some people fail many, many times at a thing before they accomplish it. But they succeeded by not giving up. So the talented and the clever succeed and the not talented and clever deserve to eat shit. In my country the government exist for the people at the consent of the people. All of the people not just the clever and the rich.

WyldHrt -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 5:19:39 PM)
Here we go... quote: Where had representative democracy been present before it was tried? I'll give you that one. quote: What is your bassis for this bullshit premis? OK, Mr. Wizard. My premise is bullshit. Please explain how you propose to give each child born in this country the same opportunities in life, regardless of the socioeconomic status, intelligence, or education of the parents? quote: Of all the people in the world how many excell? I'm not talking about the world, and it depends on what you consider excelling, I suppose. You think the immigrant who comes here with nothing, works hard, and winds up with his own small business hasn't excelled? The street kid who works his way through college and has a successful career hasn't excelled? How about the struggling artist who finally hits it big with a major gallery show and becomes famous? The divorcee who had to start all over with nothing and becomes a sought after interior designer? These kinds of things happen every day, for people who are motivated to work hard, and improve both their lot and that of their children. quote: So you are saying that there is equal prestige and perks in both occupations? I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. That said, prestige and perks make things unequal for the burger flipper, don't they? quote: Pretty much the mind set of most of amerika...except the rich I think you misread what I wrote. quote: What a mindless pile of shit...you are making an either or situation out of something that is not If you are a gazillionaire and taxes reduce you to a billionaire do you think that would keep you from sending your kids to private school?. Again, you missed the point. Private schools give children an advantage over other children. Since the idea here is that all children have equal opportunities in life, private schools are a no-no, unless every child gets to go an equal quality private school. quote: Again more unsubstantiated bullshit...There are some school systems that need fixing. For you to characterize the whole system as a disgrace is assinine http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/19/US-slipping-in-education-rankings/UPI-90221227104776/ http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm Huh, must just be my imagination, then. quote: Since I used to teach school in Japan I may have some understanding of that system which was instituted a long time before Japan lost WWII. The fact that Japan does not have a significant defense budget(Japan's defense is the U.S.)Allows her plenty of money to put into education. Are you saying that the involvement of parents and community has nothing to do with their success? That money is the only difference? quote: Why is it that schools in wealthy districts have students that do better than the poorer districts if money is not part of the solution? Again, putting words in my mouth. Please learn to read. What I said was that throwing money at the problem was not the solution. Nowhere will you find that I said that money was not part of the solution. quote: Perhaps your children are that way but you are not qualified to speak for all children or even a majority of them. I don't have children. That said, I've been around plenty of them and am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. quote: Have you taken note of the list of Nobel and Pulitzer prize winners who are graduates of the American educational system? I haven't looked, but will add them to the number of people who have excelled. [:D] [edited to remove an unnecessary bit of snark and fix a quote]

slvemike4u -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 5:32:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: The red tinted sentence is just dripping with irony(tinting mine)coming from you tommie....lol. You spend gallons of ink calling me names and you post this shit... I spend nothing when I call you names(everyone of them well deserved...you twit.)...and yep I posted that shit....what of it?

slvemike4u -> RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... (5/2/2010 5:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Funny. I thought her comment on it all was dead on. What good does it do to sit and cry over it? What good does it do to point your finger like a child and say "Look, look....life isn't fair!!" Lucky for you that Crispus Attuks did not share your opinion. Crispus Attuks was that black man who said to the English that the way they were treating the colonist was unfair...The Britts shot him to death he was the first man to die in the American Revolution. Bullshit tommie....Crispus was part of a mob(think early Tea Baggers) terrorizing a squad of British soldiers screaming about a lack of gainful employment.He was merely one person in a crowd who happened to get shot when panicked soldiers indiscrimitely fired into a crowd after much provacation. You can either make it your life's mission to keep yourself blameless by blaming everyone else and get nowhere...or try on your own. If this were true you would be the govonor or the president...obviously you are just a lazy phoque because you have not achieved any real success in your life. Do you make this shit up as you go along? You're either going to lose something you never had, or get somewhere on your own merit, and be going somewhere you never would have gone without the effort If you never had freedom would you miss it? Is this a question from a Woddie Guthrie song? And just for the record, some people fail many, many times at a thing before they accomplish it. But they succeeded by not giving up. So the talented and the clever succeed and the not talented and clever deserve to eat shit. In my country the government exist for the people at the consent of the people. All of the people not just the clever and the rich. Tommie the clever and the rich have always had an advantage and always will over the not so bright and not so rich. Are you per chance denying this is so ?

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