quote:

Of course there isn't a perfect example of this.....hence the reason to strive to create one......

quote:

I don't agree with the premise we wouldn't have the motivation to create.....And for this I make a difference in creating things from marketing things. Bill Gates didn't invent the modern pc or program...he simply marketed it to his advantage, Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile, he marketed it the best. Real creators , inventors simply don't do it for the money they do it for the love of it. Are you telling me you wouldn't do anything unless you are paid to do it? I don't believe that. And, while we are at it, does it make sense that people that are simply involved in financial dealings which do not create one simple things should be able to make 100's of millions of dollars per year? The guy that drove Lehmans in the ground was doing nothing but bundling things that were worth x and convincing people to buy them for y. It created not one thing in this world. Yet, the behavior is rewarded.

quote:

And for Doctors.....there are plenty of doctors that practice for the money but do you suppose that the care you get is good? I mean that leads one into talking about how and why people are allowed into Medical School. Does it make sense to base those things simply on test scores? I think not.

quote:

Its nice to see that you think change would be good. I had thought that maybe you thought status quo was really good enough. Lastly, the old canard about not throwing money at education is a bunch of shit. You spend the same amount of money on facilities, boos, classrooms, computers, teacher/student ratios that you do in some of the more affluent suburbs of this country and bring that the inner city. I would bet my ass that test scores in the inner cities would fly to the top. Step into an inner city elementary school someday. Compare/contrast. It isn't even an arguement.

quote:

Here we go...
quote:

Where had representative democracy been present before it was tried?
I'll give you that one.
quote:
Awfully big of you to acknowledge the truth...but then you are giving me this one because I was factually right and you were factually wrong.


What is your bassis for this bullshit premis?
OK, Mr. Wizard. My premise is bullshit. Please explain how you propose to give each child born in this country the same opportunities in life, regardless of the socioeconomic status, intelligence, or education of the parents?

How bout we give it a try and see if it will work....you know like ending slavery...we have given it a shot for about a hundred and fifty years...would you like to go back?
quote:

Of all the people in the world how many excell?
I'm not talking about the world, and it depends on what you consider excelling, I suppose. You think

perhaps if you stopped assuming what I think we might actually have a discussion.


the immigrant who comes here with nothing, works hard, and winds up with his own small business hasn't excelled? The street kid who works his way through college and has a successful career hasn't excelled? How about the struggling artist who finally hits it big with a major gallery show and becomes famous? The divorcee who had to start all over with nothing and becomes a sought after interior designer? These kinds of things happen every day, for people who are motivated to work hard, and improve both their lot and that of their children.

Then there is the rest of us who just have a job putting part A onto part B...someone has to be the employee.
quote:

So you are saying that there is equal prestige and perks in both occupations?
I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. That said, prestige and perks make things unequal for the burger flipper, don't they?

It is nice to see that the money your momma spent for dancing lessons was not wasted.
Your original premis was that if a burger flipper and a doctor made the same the doctor would not put in the effort to be a doctor. Now you want to change your position so that the burger flipper has the same prestiege as a doctor just because he makes the same amount of money...You cannot have it both ways sweetie.

quote:

Pretty much the mind set of most of amerika...except the rich
I think you misread what I wrote.

No I did not
quote:

What a mindless pile of shit...you are making an either or situation out of something that is not
If you are a gazillionaire and taxes reduce you to a billionaire do you think that would keep you from sending your kids to private school?.
Again, you missed the point.

How could I miss a point you have not made?


Private schools give children an advantage over other children. Since the idea here is that all children have equal opportunities in life, private schools are a no-no, unless every child gets to go an equal quality private school.


How about an equal quality public school?
quote:

Again more unsubstantiated bullshit...There are some school systems that need fixing. For you to characterize the whole system as a disgrace is assinine
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/19/US-slipping-in-education-rankings/UPI-90221227104776/
http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm
Huh, must just be my imagination, then.


yup since your article states that:
[About 400,000 students, including 5,600 in the United States, ] Do you suppose that there may be more than 5,600 students in America.?
quote:

Since I used to teach school in Japan I may have some understanding of that system which was instituted a long time before Japan lost WWII.
The fact that Japan does not have a significant defense budget(Japan's defense is the U.S.)Allows her plenty of money to put into education.
Are you saying that the involvement of parents and community has nothing to do with their success? That money is the only difference?

No what I am saying is that your comment that throwing money at a problem will not solve it is bullshit. Money is one of the primary constitutants of a good education along with dedicated teachers and supportive parents.
quote:

Why is it that schools in wealthy districts have students that do better than the poorer districts if money is not part of the solution?
Again, putting words in my mouth. Please learn to read.

I read just fine and I did not put anything in your mouth (but I am always open to invitations....yeah I am pretty slutty[;)]


What I said was that throwing money at the problem was not the solution. Nowhere will you find that I said that money was not part of the solution. b

A really big fucking part.

quote:

Perhaps your children are that way but you are not qualified to speak for all children or even a majority of them.
I don't have children. That said, I've been around plenty of them and am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
Have you taken note of the list of Nobel and Pulitzer prize winners who are graduates of the American educational system?
I haven't looked, but will add them to the number of people who have excelled.

In our inadequate educational system.

[edited to remove an unnecessary bit of snark]

I always appreciate that.


< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 5/2/2010 5:20:39 PM >

quote:

Congrats, thompson. You are the very first person I've ever put on block. I'll not waste my time replying to someone who is either being deliberately obtuse or is simply an idiot.
I will continue this discussion with DYB, because he actually comprehends what I write and replies on point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Congrats, thompson. You are the very first person I've ever put on block. I'll not waste my time replying to someone who is either being deliberately obtuse or is simply an idiot.
I will continue this discussion with DYB, because he actually comprehends what I write and replies on point.  

quote:

Shit DYB when you go off the rails...you really go off.Tiger is special....

No he is not ...he is a fucking athelete


now whether or not you find athletic ability to be worthy of the adulation heaped on it in this society is besides the point.Your not understanding the level of skill it takes to do what he does at the game he chose to devote his life to is far more telling than how many woman he scoops up.

The difficulty of the game is not germaine...he is an athelete.
He plays a geme for money....lots of money but it is still a game and he is still an athelete.
He ain't special.



Go out and play a round or two....than realise that despite the fact that you aren't even playing the same game(courses set up for professional competition would drive every duffer from the sport...lol)just how hard it is to sink that little white ball in that little cup.

It is a fucking game and no matter how well one plays it it has nothing to do with the persons ethical vallue.



Sorry about the Tiger rant...... bitch about his lack of morals if you like....but trying to minimize his talent is sheer bullshit.
To point out that his talent is just a fucking game is not minimizing his talent just his profession as it relates to ethical behaviour. How good someone is at some sport does not measure that persons ethical worth.

quote:

Just think that you and I have a very fundamental difference of opinion on the motivations of people. I don't  really believe most people are greedy or that we do what we do based on money only. I believe people like to feel special. The only way in this country that we show that people are special is through monetary gain. We gauge our whole idea of what is important on that simple fact. How else to explain a total geek boy like Tiger (can't believe he calls himself that) Woods can run around scooping up women all around the country. Its false "specialness". It has come to permeate all that we do and all that we are. That opportunity for someone to be special that has turned out 10 kids that have become great musicians just isn't there. And, isn't that a shame? Isn't it horrible that the "teachers" that make the most either get it by increasing school endowments or by turning out athletes? ..................I just go back to my original premise. We are better than this. This isn't how it needs to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Shit DYB when you go off the rails...you really go off.Tiger is special....

No he is not ...he is a fucking athelete


now whether or not you find athletic ability to be worthy of the adulation heaped on it in this society is besides the point.Your not understanding the level of skill it takes to do what he does at the game he chose to devote his life to is far more telling than how many woman he scoops up.

The difficulty of the game is not germaine...he is an athelete.
He plays a geme for money....lots of money but it is still a game and he is still an athelete.
He ain't special.



Go out and play a round or two....than realise that despite the fact that you aren't even playing the same game(courses set up for professional competition would drive every duffer from the sport...lol)just how hard it is to sink that little white ball in that little cup.

It is a fucking game and no matter how well one plays it it has nothing to do with the persons ethical vallue.



Sorry about the Tiger rant...... bitch about his lack of morals if you like....but trying to minimize his talent is sheer bullshit.
To point out that his talent is just a fucking game is not minimizing his talent just his profession as it relates to ethical behaviour. How good someone is at some sport does not measure that persons ethical worth.

quote:

I bet the mom who has 10 kids who are all great musicians feels pretty special.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Shit DYB when you go off the rails...you really go off.Tiger is special....

No he is not ...he is a fucking athelete
No tommie...he is an exceptionally gifted fucking athlete.....and that makes him....in the context of his chosen profession very fucking special.
Whether you or DBL care to accept that fact is besides the point.



now whether or not you find athletic ability to be worthy of the adulation heaped on it in this society is besides the point.Your not understanding the level of skill it takes to do what he does at the game he chose to devote his life to is far more telling than how many woman he scoops up.

The difficulty of the game is not germaine...he is an athelete.
He plays a geme for money....lots of money but it is still a game and he is still an athelete.
He ain't special.
So many falsehoods in one post.....lots of folks play this game of his....most of us pay a nice chunk of change to be able to do so.....In Tigers case...by dint of his "specialness" ...that is turned on its ear....we as a public watch him perform his most excellant brand of golf...hence he get's paid a lot of money to do so.




Go out and play a round or two....than realise that despite the fact that you aren't even playing the same game(courses set up for professional competition would drive every duffer from the sport...lol)just how hard it is to sink that little white ball in that little cup.

It is a fucking game and no matter how well one plays it it has nothing to do with the persons ethical vallue.
And what the fuck does ethical value have to do with this conversation



Sorry about the Tiger rant...... bitch about his lack of morals if you like....but trying to minimize his talent is sheer bullshit.
To point out that his talent is just a fucking game is not minimizing his talent just his profession as it relates to ethical behaviour. How good someone is at some sport does not measure that persons ethical worth.
And how the fuck does a persons "ethical worth" have to do with whether or not a person is special as it applies to his chosen profession.
Have you slipped a fucking gear tonight tommie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Shit DYB when you go off the rails...you really go off.Tiger is special....

No he is not ...he is a fucking athelete
No tommie...he is an exceptionally gifted fucking athlete.....and that makes him....in the context of his chosen profession very fucking special.
Whether you or DBL care to accept that fact is besides the point.



now whether or not you find athletic ability to be worthy of the adulation heaped on it in this society is besides the point.Your not understanding the level of skill it takes to do what he does at the game he chose to devote his life to is far more telling than how many woman he scoops up.

The difficulty of the game is not germaine...he is an athelete.
He plays a geme for money....lots of money but it is still a game and he is still an athelete.
He ain't special.
So many falsehoods in one post.....lots of folks play this game of his....most of us pay a nice chunk of change to be able to do so.....In Tigers case...by dint of his "specialness" ...that is turned on its ear....we as a public watch him perform his most excellant brand of golf...hence he get's paid a lot of money to do so.




Go out and play a round or two....than realise that despite the fact that you aren't even playing the same game(courses set up for professional competition would drive every duffer from the sport...lol)just how hard it is to sink that little white ball in that little cup.

It is a fucking game and no matter how well one plays it it has nothing to do with the persons ethical vallue.
And what the fuck does ethical value have to do with this conversation



Sorry about the Tiger rant...... bitch about his lack of morals if you like....but trying to minimize his talent is sheer bullshit.
To point out that his talent is just a fucking game is not minimizing his talent just his profession as it relates to ethical behaviour. How good someone is at some sport does not measure that persons ethical worth.
And how the fuck does a persons "ethical worth" have to do with whether or not a person is special as it applies to his chosen profession.
Have you slipped a fucking gear tonight tommie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

"golfers are not athletes".....Do I hear the sound of ignorance speaking?
Have you ever played a round?

quote:

But the world doesn't think she is special unless they were decituplets and she got a gig on TV.

quote:

Please stop, you are killing me. Golfers are NOT athletes.