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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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Someone asked me the other day why I even bother posting in forums and defend the negative bullshit. After all I HAVE created my own world and I’m a very busy woman. Why bother posting to flames about fem supremacy especially to people who have pigeonholed it into something negative. They will never read, research or take the time to know our life. So why would I spend the last 16 years of my life posting, writing, etc. only to encounter prejudice in my own community?

  I never felt my way was the only way but if there are people who feel what I feel in their heart or people that are curious, then it is my honor to speak up and talk about the life I love. I no longer get upset nor will I get into a bitch match with someone about it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Still, its important for me to speak up and state my purpose in the realm of fem supremacy. There are those people who invest emotional and spiritually and there are others who abuse it making it tough for us all.

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  As for phone interviews. I did once meet them face to face. I honestly got tired of getting dressed and meeting no-shows or guys who were probably sitting out I their car whacking off. I had a few guys follow me. I feel safer talking on the phone and both of us getting to know one another. Its an investment and I feel worth it. I probably wouldn’t go back professional today, however if a sub wanted to train under me REALLY to be a good sub and explore his/her submission then I would invest the time for a fee or exchange. I am very selective and careful who I do this with. People can say what they want about how I do this or call me fake because I expect tribute for my time in training. I can’t change this. I know who I am and I also know my time is limited & that I have extensive experience to give someone. If you went to a private instructor or any teacher there is a fee paid. I don’t take anything without a commitment and exchange. I don’t need this to be my income. I do very well as a business woman and with my investments. If a novice wants to take a journey into MY world and learn directly from me then he will enroll/invest. Plain and simple. I’m just not interested in the hourly gig where a sub orders up his fantasy for me to perform.
I think that each person needs to follow the beat of their own drum. If you come in contact with others of like mind then you connect. If not, keep moving. The world is a very big place & we all fit.

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

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What I don't think it is right is to blame and want to shun Pro-Dommes for the service they provide for the faults of a husband who is cheating on his wife.

 
Amen where is that bowing emoticon!    This kind of mentality reminds me of a somewhat cause celeb christian political party advocate who needless to say was rather outspoken a few years ago here in New Zealand during the select committee hearings investigating whether or not to legalise prostitution.  His statements carried the same 'blame' mentality and I recall one day reading in horror his thought that with prostitution legalised it would make it harder for a husband to remain faithful... hmm so men are just once again pawns and minions of pussy power ...so much for hegemonic masculinity.  This same cause celeb christian political party advocate is now serving time in prison for pedophillia.  He raped and indecently assaulted over 10 or so years a number of girls as young as 8.  During this entire time he spoke out numerous times about society protecting it's children and how sexual liberalisation was a symptom of a immoral society and against God and good christian thought.  Even from his prison cell he denied it was possible to rape an 8 year old and used biblical quotes to back up his claims :(
 

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

And I agree there is a very real need for skilled professional domination.  I use to think why don't you just tell your wife?  Then I thought about it a bit more ... how many of these worm boys' wives could seriously handle their partner wanting them to treat them this way?  Especially when it is a case of been a sporadic need?   Something they may indulge in once or twice a year, say during times of stress?  Isn't it better they come and get this need to be subjugated met, with or without their partner's knowledge, then letting his stress levels develope to a stage of causing disruption within their partnership?  Self justification on my behalf?  Maybe ... but if it helps him to feel better in a mental sense and a lot less stressful for his partner and family to be around then I'm ok with that.
 

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
When I offered professional sessions I stopped seeing married clients, unless they had permission.
I am torn how I feel about it really. On one hand I hate infidelity and lying but on the other hand I can see where professional services of all kinds are greatly needed. If I was a married woman I would certainly be relieved if my husband hired a professional as opposed to going out, developing a relationship and having an affair. 

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
Yeah I thought that too but over the years changed my view. 

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
Then you have the men that get married to vanilla women KNOWING they are kinky but plan on living a double life. I think this is just bullshit because it’s not only premeditated but a complete act of deception.

The first man I feel bad for and I think that professional domination can be VERY constructive for his marriage because it doesn’t involve penetration or sex, per se. 

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ORIGINAL: PrettyNYkitten

It is absolutely incredible what some misinformed people think. More than half of my clients are single, and I have some of very long standing who love their wives. Their sessions with me do not detract from their marriage at all, and I always encourage them to put their families first. I have children of my own, and they come first with me.

Cheers,
Caitlin

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Yeah I thought that too but over the years changed my view. I know of at least 3 men that tired that and had huge problems. One wife too him to court & was able to deny him visitation of their children. That was pretty severe but it wasn’t good. I’m not saying this always happens but it is a risk.

  There is a part of me that is sensitive to the man who gets married and truly wants to do the right thing then one day he *discovers* something in him that needs to be explore and understood. Then you have the men that get married to vanilla women KNOWING they are kinky but plan on living a double life. I think this is just bullshit because it’s not only premeditated but a complete act of deception.

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I was married once (briefly) in my mid- to late-twenties, and I dealt with this issue.  I never got as far as seeing a pro Domme, so I never really had to face the ethical problem of going outside the marriage.  I'm not sure if it was my Catholic upbringing or my own latent masochism or what, but I decided to choose the path of repression and self-denial rather than scratch the itch and cheat.  I'm glad I didn't cheat, but I don't feel there was anything noble or heroic about it.  In many ways I wish I had so at least I would've started my exploration (and maybe ended the marriage) earlier, so I'm not here at 40 going thru the newbie motions like I am now.

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ORIGINAL: pollux

And here's another thing, and this is something that I'm still wrestling with now.  This is the idea of somehow incorporating this idea of D/s into a *love* relationship.  There's a certain darkness that's part of the appeal of D/s, and you know, whatever else you may say about it, that dark part isn't love.  There's a conflict or a paradox or something there, and I'm still wrestling with the idea of how you get your vanilla needs for basic love and intimacy met at the same time your BDSM needs are met. 

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ORIGINAL: pollux

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Yeah I thought that too but over the years changed my view. I know of at least 3 men that tired that and had huge problems. One wife too him to court & was able to deny him visitation of their children. That was pretty severe but it wasn’t good. I’m not saying this always happens but it is a risk.

  There is a part of me that is sensitive to the man who gets married and truly wants to do the right thing then one day he *discovers* something in him that needs to be explore and understood. Then you have the men that get married to vanilla women KNOWING they are kinky but plan on living a double life. I think this is just bullshit because it’s not only premeditated but a complete act of deception.

We've been over this subject before, back in August I think, and when I raised similar points about married subs as you & Jasmyn, I was flamed to a cinder.  Not that I'm keeping track or anything. 

Just in the interest of helping end the War Between The Dommes And The Subs, I'll tell you my story, because for me, it was quite a bit different than how you've described it in your post, and I doubt my story is all that unique.

I was married once (briefly) in my mid- to late-twenties, and I dealt with this issue.  I never got as far as seeing a pro Domme, so I never really had to face the ethical problem of going outside the marriage.  I'm not sure if it was my Catholic upbringing or my own latent masochism or what, but I decided to choose the path of repression and self-denial rather than scratch the itch and cheat.  I'm glad I didn't cheat, but I don't feel there was anything noble or heroic about it.  In many ways I wish I had so at least I would've started my exploration (and maybe ended the marriage) earlier, so I'm not here at 40 going thru the newbie motions like I am now.

It isn't that I discovered this part of my personality after marriage, and it's not as if I got married planning this elaborate deception.  For me, it was more the thought that I could control it with my will.  I had this belief that if I could just get deeply enough into the marriage, the commitment to my wife would make it go away.  I couldn't accept that I really had these desires, and that they were a part of me that no matter what I did, they weren't going away.  It's a hard thing to describe, and of course it's completely neurotic, but I walked around in a big cloud of denial -- kind of thinking to myself, yeah, I know I'm turned on by certain things, but I'm not *really* turned on by them.  Am I?

Dommes often ask the question, "how do you kinky guys end up marrying these non-kinky ladies?"  The answer is simple.  Many guys don't really believe they're kinky.  Or they don't really accept that it's a need.  Also, I'll tell you that in my case, when I was in my mid-20s and courting my wife, I had NO IDEA that such a thing as a real-life flesh-and-blood female dominant existed.  The concept of lifestyle BDSM had no meaning for me whatsoever.

So...living in denial of their own kink + not accepting it as a *need* + not knowing/believing in the existence of potential female dominant partners = recipe for unhappy vanilla marriages, and lots of 'em.

And here's another thing, and this is something that I'm still wrestling with now.  This is the idea of somehow incorporating this idea of D/s into a *love* relationship.  There's a certain darkness that's part of the appeal of D/s, and you know, whatever else you may say about it, that dark part isn't love.  There's a conflict or a paradox or something there, and I'm still wrestling with the idea of how you get your vanilla needs for basic love and intimacy met at the same time your BDSM needs are met.  This is another reason why I think many guys have a hard time working this out with one woman.  The two things -- love and power -- are opposites, and it takes quite a mental stretch (for a newbie, anyway) to envision a relationship where both of these are integrated in a satisfactory and healthy way.

I don't think men are quite as immature (discovering parts of themselves like this only after marriage) or so evil (planning to deceive their partners) as they're often portrayed in this forum.  You just have to understand that coming to grips with this is a very, very hard thing for a man.  It presents a lot of ethical problems for a guy, and requires a lot of inner courage, self-awareness, and self-acceptance on his part.  Men aren't necessarily good at all of that (since our job is to slay & conquer), so it's not surprising that a lot of guys have trouble with it, and that when the ladies go out on the prowl, they find a lot of problems in the dating pool.  There's a lot of ignorance out there.  There's a lot of lack of self-knowledge out there.  There's a lot of self-denial and repression and pain and misunderstanding and intolerance and fear out there.

That doesn't make all the nonsense and unethical behavior of married subs ok, but I hope that women can better realize how married guys get into this situation, and why maybe they don't deserve quite as much scorn and contempt as they often receive here.

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ORIGINAL: TeeGO

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ORIGINAL: pollux

And here's another thing, and this is something that I'm still wrestling with now.  This is the idea of somehow incorporating this idea of D/s into a *love* relationship.  There's a certain darkness that's part of the appeal of D/s, and you know, whatever else you may say about it, that dark part isn't love.  There's a conflict or a paradox or something there, and I'm still wrestling with the idea of how you get your vanilla needs for basic love and intimacy met at the same time your BDSM needs are met. 

I feel strongly about the love D/s ideal.  I'm not saying I wouldn't explore other things, but what I would truly want is a D/s love connection.  Looking at profiles on here, this relationship does exist in many different forms.

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Wow that so hit the nail on the head and was by far the best post I’ve ever read. Thank you. I don’t think anyone could have articulated it any better.

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What you described is what does happen MOST of the time, however many become so frustrated they cheat or take it out on their wives. Some harbor the second life & become obsessed through online porn and phone sex because they can’t bring themselves to cheat.

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So my question is this… lets say you had gone to a professional early on and she guided you, do you think that things would have still ended with your wife?

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You see I know guys who threw themselves into fantasy, hook, line and sinker. When they were done the urge wasn’t as strong. I also know guys who are fulfilled ‘doing it” once or twice a year.

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You absolutely can have love and BDSM. People do it all the time. You just need to find someone who is on the same page as you are and who also wants to integrate it into an already existing marriage/ relationship. These relationships must be clearly defined as to how you will conduct you day to day. Some are natural and some require more work.

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I am working on a blog and wondered if I could use what you wrote. I think it will help a lot of people. Please email me for info.

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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Remember, my perspective, someone else's mileage may differ, but I don't see it as I'm been told what to do or the sub client being the boss.  What I am given is a guideline, am negotiating as it were, the limitations, which are defined in any interaction.  The scene could be professional, personal, casual or at a play event.  Within those 'limitations' I am in total control of any intereactions with me the sub and I have. The sub is not in control here. Seeing a scene/session as an opportunity ...thinking, hmmm so I have a, b, and c... or yay yum I've been dying to get my hands on a leather butt.

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But let me ask you this...does it/would it make you the boss if you were to find a dominant woman willing to indulge your masochistic needs? 

Side note, 'tis a common theme for a lot of subs to require an influencing factor/force in their submission.  Kinda like guys seeking blackmail.  Subservience/submission tied up in a consequence of non compliance kind of dynamic... lol read my by-line as to what I think about that, but hope you one day do find her, your Lady Boss. ;)