quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2



ill bet you money that neighbour doesnt throw those things out as she said she would.  ill bet money that stuff gets given back because itll cost her money to replace them.  so the threat is null and void and kids arent stupid.  so make a threat thats doable.

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ORIGINAL: windchymes

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet she bags it all up and gives it all back an hour later, and the kids know she will. 

The consequence has to hurt.  Take away their most prized possession, like their cell phone, or their iPod, not the junk they let lie on the floor.  I told my son once that if he got one more "Missing Homework" note at midterm, he got NO tv, NO music, NO video games, NO computer, NO phone, NO entertainment of any kind unless it involved education.  And he didn't, until the end of the grading period, which was 4 weeks away.  I wasn't too cruel, though.  When the rest of the family was watching tv, he was allowed to sit just outside the room with his schoolbooks so he wouldn't get lonely.  :)   He did a lot of moaning and wailing, but tt worked, both ways.  He didn't miss any more homework assignments, and he knew I meant business.

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ORIGINAL: stella41b

Interesting thread..

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

They understand that I know better and that their Mum knows better and accept our choices for them with minimal complaint and almost always say please and thanks.

How do your children understand that you and their Mum knows better? Is it simply through your position in the relationship as their parents or is it through your behaviour, attitudes and the way you live your life?

You talk about 'minimal complaint' with regard to the choices you make. Does this mean that your children are discouraged from complaining or questioning the reasons behind your decisions?

Their understanding of how things "are" is initially based on trust, My kids trust me and my judgement.

My kids are also encouraged to ask questions and this includes decisions they may not like.
Ive never answered them with "Because I say so" and if something I decide is unpopular then im happy to debate the issue and if they make a good enough case then ive been known to reverse a decision in their favour.
But if they whinge, bitch and moan im less likely to hear them out so they very quickly learned to approach things in a calm and intelligent manner.

I also use humour quite a bit and they also know that none of my actions are in anger although my 15 yr old son is seriously testing my ability to keep my cool at times.

The whole process is easy going, fair and very much a give and take scenario.

My behaviour is I guess closer to a good friend and confidant with unconditional love and trust which in itself seems to be unusual but the kids understand that at times im going to be unpopular and accept this and take it in their stride.

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

Because its easier than saying that as a nation we have some seriously crappy parents and parenting created by social views and pressures and its not just Australia but I feel most of the so called civilised or western world.

I disagree here. Substandard parenting is nothing new. In fact I would even suggest that there were just as many 'substandard parents' in the 1950's (your 'golden age' of parenting if you prefer) as there are today, just as there are substandard relationships.

But you know people survive substandard relationships and the vast majority of children actually survive the substandard efforts of their parents whether it be through their own efforts or the street corner or even The School of Hard Knocks.

The thing which has changed is society and local communities and much of this has come about by advances in technology over the past forty years which has transformed completely almost every area of our lives resulting in the demise of the local community and local community values.

Now society changes with each and every generation and we as a society cope through support in our families and local communities. This has happened once before in history, the advent of the Industrial Revolution which also brought rapid changes to society and created social upheaval bringing us the social problems that we can read about in any of the books written by Charles Dickens.

This is why I disagree, because I see what is happening today as nothing more than history repeating itself and society as a whole struggling to cope with the after-effects of over 30 years of social upheavals. However you may not agree with me and may wish to continue thinking that all our social problems are connected with 'some seriously crappy parents'.

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

I am (For the record) not a new age Dad and I am infact the opposite, taking my parenting leads from the 50's through to the 70's with the main tenets being boundaries and discipline, building self respect and respect for others as well as a bit of work ethic for good measure.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble I am not a parent but I have contact with people who are parents and also with young people and I don't associate the understanding of boundaries and discipline with the 1950's, 1960's or any other period in history but I associate it with what it really is, the hallmark of an emotionally mature adult and I feel you can meet numerous examples of such adults aged in their 20's, 30's, 40's and older if you are prepared to look hard enough.

In fact I have a tremendous amount of respect today for teenagers and young people for example among the volunteers who take part in the CRISIS Open Christmas for the street homeless every year in London. Yes I'm talking about young people who sacrifice their own Christmas and travel long distances to London where they rent a hotel room, pay their own fares spending even as much as you would to go away on a foreign holiday and they do this simply to spend time with homeless people so that they too can celebrate Christmas.

I was in my early 20's during the 1980's and I never did such a thing but then again it's a different generation where you do have young adults in their early twenties who don't have much money but despite this they commit to saving up money throughout the year so they can be a volunteer at a CRISIS Open Christmas.

I'll give you another example. My generation was the generation of the riots in Brixton, Southall where you got scores of black youths fighting the police for freedom (the riots started over our controversial 'sus' laws) but today you cannot do this because if you do you will be prosecuted under the Prevention of Terrorism Acts or for numerous other public order offences.

But you know I see many black youths today attending college, some have bought Mac computers and are busy making music in their bedrooms and sharing that music among friends and family, uploading their music up to sites such as Youtube and MySpace.

You want to see an example? Click on the link and watch Matthew MacAnuff singing Be Careful. If you do click on the link I'd strongly recommend you listen to the words of the song, which paint a pretty accurate picture of what it's like being young and black in society today.

However if you're not prepared to get out there into wider society and take a good look at the people around you and even try to get to know them I guess it's much easier to believe what the media is telling you that black people deal in drugs, wear bling and walk around London with guns and knives and that parents are much worse today than they've ever been. Oh and that they are conspiring with the asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to bring society down.

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

Am I the weird one?

No you're not. Maybe you do what a lot of people do nowadays, they believe everything they are told by the media and regurgitate such opinions verbatim presenting them as personal opinion.

This is no different to what people were doing in Moscow in 1952 under the Soviet Union and Joseph Stalin. It's much easier to believe myths such as Pawlik Morozov and 'crappy parenting' than to observe, think and develop one's own opinions. All propaganda needs scapegoats to release others from shared responsibility for what's going on.

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

Because these days its about (IMO) kids and the "rights" of kids as well as the creation of a "Me first gimme gimme" generation who are parents..........

But isn't this true about adults as well?

You don't even have to go anywhere else - just go to the search function here and type in words like 'scammer', 'fakes', 'why can't I find...' 'Collarme is a fucking shite website' etc and find thousands and thousands of postings in hundreds of threads created by people pissed off that it took them more than three days to get any nookie after joining the site.

Go browse profiles on the other side. Spend a bit of time studying threads and posts in the Politics and Religion section.

Children didn't think this stuff up or imagine it all on their own, but are simply forming attitudes and patterns of behaviour and relationship strategies modelled by their parents, by media figures, by their teachers, and also by other people in their communities.

Social problems are no different to other problems in life. They have solutions. The thing is nobody is interested in the solutions, it's too difficult, it requires thinking, it requires taking responsibility for one's actions and it's pretty evident to me that these are things which have becomne unfashionable.

People don't want to know, they often don't want to do anything which doesn't offer them some sort of immediate return or benefit. We have been conditioned over a number of years to take the easy way out, and the easy way out for most people is to blame someone else or even a group of people for the problems and expect someone else to come up with the solution. This is what many people do quite a lot of the time.

You don't even have to use the search function to find threads and posts started by people who are having relationship problems but seem to have a mental block when it comes to their own responsibility for the relationship breakdown and who perceive the problems as being caused by 'other people'.

Okay, so you replace 'other people' with other words such as 'Martians', 'fairies', 'garden gnomes', 'God', 'Nigerians', 'socialists' to see how ridiculous this way of thinking is.

I honestly believe that social change has a simple straightforward solution. You hold yourself responsible for everything that you think, everything that you say and everything that you do and you hold everybody else equally accountable. If you want people to treat you differently you model different attitudes and patterns of behaviour. If someone cannot be responsible for their own actions then you leave them alone to bugger off and whinge and whine and moan and bitch about 'other people' (or 'Martians', 'God', 'Nigerians', 'socialists', etc)

I don't have time for such people in my life. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be alive, how long my life is going to be, but however long it is I want to devote my time to living, doing stuff and sharing moments and experiences with other people.

I'm not bothered about being right, my focus on life is on being an example to others through my behaviour and attitudes because this is the only way people will know me, remember me when I die, and through this the only way my life will have brought some benefit to the world and society as a whole.

It's about being happy and making other people happy.

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ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

except for when they don't. My neighbor, and I've said this on another thread, always struggles to get her girls to clean their room, do chores, or be helpful. She tells them get back in there and clean your room, or I am going to bag it all up and haul it to the garage. Her girls say, so I don't care. Mom then says ok, goes in bags it all up, and the girls don't give one rats ass.

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ORIGINAL: windchymes
They do THAT, they get the consequence immediately.  Once they realize you mean business, they take you seriously.  More importantly, they learn to respect you and your authority.

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Punishing in anger is futile..... Doesn't matter the punishment, it's self defeating.

Abuse is defined as an act that mistreats another. A smack is a mistreatment

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ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Keys to good parenting.

1. Get drunk often as a parent, sometimes don't come home at all the next morning. This will force the child to grow up fast and take responsibility. They will learn by trial and error, and be proud that they learned to operate the Stove all by themselves before they could read. They'll realize being a parent is not that big of a deal and view you as an equal.

2. Invite weirdos and strangers to crash at your house unsupervised around your children. This will give them valuable access to different types of people. The danger is will worth learning at an early age that the world is filled with psychopaths.

3. Never clean or do laundry for them. They will either shed aside all the superficial qualities sold be advertising execs and adopt a hippy style, or they will learn to do laundry, and therefore will then be able to your laundry, freeing up time to party.

4. Have as many girlfriends or boyfriends as possible and the more casual the relationship the better. This will teach them that relationships are purely physical things and therefore they will not be hurt by believing in love or other such whimsical notions.

5. Leave pot, drugs and alcohol around, it is far better they do it at home, and they're going to do it anyway, at least that way  there will be a slight chance you will be home and conscience, or one of the drifters staying for the night will call when they OD.

6. Have firearms and bullets readily available and make sure they know where they are at. There is no need to teach them how to shoot, the drug dealer / gangbanger that sells you weed will do that, I'm sure, or they'll figure out when someone pisses them off.

7. Never under any circumstances show them affection or tell them you love them, except when they give you something of value. If they give you some crap that isn't worth anything, hit them, and send them to their room without food. If they give you a stole ipad, or laptop, tell them how smart they are, and give them a big hug, and let them sit with the adults, preferably while drugs are being used, and if they give you cash or drugs take them to McDonalds!!!

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ORIGINAL: pegbundy

I'm seeing a lot of posts here which speak of finding the right way to parent each child. It is a beautiful thing to me, seeing each person's creativity in dealing with their child's unique needs and challenges. I cannot fathom trying to say to any of them that their way is wrong and I know better than they do.

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ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

No, it was never throw it away, it was bag it up and put it away out of their reach for a determined time.

Her kids are 9. I don't know if that whole let it be sloppy if ya want, is to soon for 9 year olds.

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ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

So who do we blame for this perceived problem?

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

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Punishing in anger is futile..... Doesn't matter the punishment, it's self defeating.

Abuse is defined as an act that mistreats another. A smack is a mistreatment

i have to agree with this for the most part. Where as i do not see a smack on the butt as abuse i do see it as unnecessary and, at times, plain old lazy parenting. It is easy to smack the kid and have it over with. But as opposed to smacking, other methods of discipline require more effort from the parent. A time out for the child means Mom also has a time out to monitor the situation. Removing a privilege generally involves a change of plans/routine for the parent as well.

Raising my hand to my child in anger is wrong and i will not do it, ever. He gets a time out, instantly and immediately, no matter where we are (i can be discrete, as embarrassing/humiliating a child can be more detrimental than an angry act by a parent). Sometimes the time-out is all the discipline that is needed, often times it is not. Irregardless, it is needed to allow both the parent and the child to calm down and take a deep breath.
Sure i could smack him when my anger has dissipated, but by that time my common sense is no longer clouded by the anger/frustration of the moment and i am able to rationally deal with the situation.

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The moment you have to raise a hand, you have already lost the battle. 

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Been in bdsm lifestyle few yrs in bdsm lifestyle are masters suspose breed with mistress. I am switch and my master insist on breeding mistress.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Punishing in anger is futile..... Doesn't matter the punishment, it's self defeating.

Abuse is defined as an act that mistreats another. A smack is a mistreatment

i have to agree with this for the most part. Where as i do not see a smack on the butt as abuse i do see it as unnecessary and, at times, plain old lazy parenting. It is easy to smack the kid and have it over with. But as opposed to smacking, other methods of discipline require more effort from the parent. A time out for the child means Mom also has a time out to monitor the situation. Removing a privilege generally involves a change of plans/routine for the parent as well.

Raising my hand to my child in anger is wrong and i will not do it, ever. He gets a time out, instantly and immediately, no matter where we are (i can be discrete, as embarrassing/humiliating a child can be more detrimental than an angry act by a parent). Sometimes the time-out is all the discipline that is needed, often times it is not. Irregardless, it is needed to allow both the parent and the child to calm down and take a deep breath.
Sure i could smack him when my anger has dissipated, but by that time my common sense is no longer clouded by the anger/frustration of the moment and i am able to rationally deal with the situation.

I really don't have time to read this whole thread.I'm heading into the city to see my son in his last college Improv show( the son I never struck,,,whether in anger or not).....anyway Sirsholly has pretty well summed up my opinion where the utility of smacking a child is concerned.....simply put there are better ways to parent!!!!

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Punishing in anger is futile..... Doesn't matter the punishment, it's self defeating.

Abuse is defined as an act that mistreats another. A smack is a mistreatment

i have to agree with this for the most part. Where as i do not see a smack on the butt as abuse i do see it as unnecessary and, at times, plain old lazy parenting. It is easy to smack the kid and have it over with. But as opposed to smacking, other methods of discipline require more effort from the parent. A time out for the child means Mom also has a time out to monitor the situation. Removing a privilege generally involves a change of plans/routine for the parent as well.

Raising my hand to my child in anger is wrong and i will not do it, ever. He gets a time out, instantly and immediately, no matter where we are (i can be discrete, as embarrassing/humiliating a child can be more detrimental than an angry act by a parent). Sometimes the time-out is all the discipline that is needed, often times it is not. Irregardless, it is needed to allow both the parent and the child to calm down and take a deep breath.
Sure i could smack him when my anger has dissipated, but by that time my common sense is no longer clouded by the anger/frustration of the moment and i am able to rationally deal with the situation.

I really don't have time to read this whole thread.I'm heading into the city to see my son in his last college Improv show( the son I never struck,,,whether in anger or not).....anyway Sirsholly has pretty well summed up my opinion where the utility of smacking a child is concerned.....simply put there are better ways to parent!!!!

Curious that everyone associates a "smack" with anger.