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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 6:48:07 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		The Fed serves to regulate the supply of currency, among other things. I am not of your camp who believes we should get rid of the Fed.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 6:49:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Why not?   Debts accrued via fraud should not have to be paid.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 6:55:23 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Unless you can have an intelligent, educated discussion about the role of the Fed in regulating the economy, then I ain't playin. There are plenty of good arguments to be made about the ineffectiveness and conflicts of interest inherent in the Fed, but so far you haven't made any. And I am not inclined to argue your strawmen.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:00:09 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Then under your assessment Ron Paul is a fraud?

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:01:05 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		No, but occasionally he's an idiot.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:05:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		1207 would allow an audit.  We could take a peek at what the fed has been up to. 

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:23:58 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I'm all for auditing the Fed. I'm not for Congress interfering with or setting Fed policy.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:27:59 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Good luck with that.

All you need is love...da da da da da...
All you need is love...da da da da da...
All you need is love, love....
Love is all you need
Love is all you need.


I was thinking more in terms of:

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:37:43 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I share the dream, but unfortunately that's all it is - just a dream. If someone can demonstrate such a workable utopia, I'd be willing to listen.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:47:40 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

A resource based economy, which utilizes existing resources instead of commerce.



There are so many things wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. But I'll try with this - why, exactly, do you think that currency was created, if a direct barter system is more efficient?


There's nothing wrong with this. The concept is just currently outside of your box, that's all.

A resource-based economy would require neither currency nor barter.

All goods and services would be available without currency, credit, barter, or any form of debt or servitude. It would free humanity from the repetitive, mundane, and arbitrary occupational roles which hold no true relevance for social development.

A resource-based economy would also encourage a new incentive system, focused upon self-fulfillment, education, social awareness, and creativity... as opposed to the shallow and self-centered goals of wealth, property, and power... which are the current primary incentives.



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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:55:32 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

I share the dream, but unfortunately that's all it is - just a dream. If someone can demonstrate such a workable utopia, I'd be willing to listen.


There is no such thing as a utopia. But there is change.

Our current methods of social conduct have proven to have no chance in resolving environmental destruction, human conflict, poverty, corruption, and other issues that reduce the possibility of collective human sustainability on this planet.

It's time we grow up as a species, and truly examine what the problems and solutions are... as uncomfortable and non-traditional as they may seem.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 7:57:09 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		You can't change human behavior just because you will it to be something else. Just ain't going to happen.

Also, different resources have different values. Currency would be created naturally to account for these differences. The accumulation of said currency is what would occur naturally to ensure certain resources would always be available. One of the many flaws of your theory is that resources can always be available all the time in the quantities needed by all the people. An entire theory of economies is based on a fatal flaw of assumption. Most educated people get this. That's why this theory doesn't get much airtime except outside of a small circle of nutters.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 8:36:11 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

You can't change human behavior just because you will it to be something else. Just ain't going to happen.

Also, different resources have different values. Currency would be created naturally to account for these differences. The accumulation of said currency is what would occur naturally to ensure certain resources would always be available. One of the many flaws of your theory is that resources can always be available all the time in the quantities needed by all the people. An entire theory of economies is based on a fatal flaw of assumption. Most educated people get this. That's why this theory doesn't get much airtime except outside of a small circle of nutters.


The monetary system emerged thousands of years ago, when scarcity of resources was an every day problem. A method was needed to distribute goods and services, compensating those who worked to create them.

The monetary-based labor system has been a staple of society for so long, that most people can't even imagine a world without it... even though the mechanisms of the system has created problems ranging from monetary crimes and emotional distortion, to vast abuse and exploitation of mankind and the ecosystem.

The whole world stands at odds with itself, with individuals, businesses, and countries perpetually working to defend what they have, always seeking more... often by force or corruption.

The whole world is now in debt to itself, owing comical amounts of money, while the integrity of the world financial structure is on the verge of collapse.

Doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.

It's time to start thinking outside the box.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 8:41:24 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I'm okay with thinking outside the box, but you have to demonstrate that your solutions actually solve more problems than they create. You are going to have to go deeper than just being disenfranchised with the current system to convince anyone that your system is better.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:01:59 PM   
subfever


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quote:

I'm okay with thinking outside the box, but you have to demonstrate that your solutions actually solve more problems than they create. You are going to have to go deeper than just being disenfranchised with the current system to convince anyone that your system is better.


They're not my solutions, but rather solutions I've come to embrace over time.

I'm glad you're okay with thinking outside the box, because most people aren't... especially when their identities are being challenged. A main hurdle is that most of our identities are well intertwined with the status quo.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:03:57 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		You probably should spend more time investigating whether they really are solutions or just ideas that appeal to your worldview.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:16:12 PM   
subfever


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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

You probably should spend more time investigating whether they really are solutions or just ideas that appeal to your worldview.


Is there anything regarding my worldview as presented in this thread that you are in disagreement with?

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:26:51 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Yes. You are an idealist and I'm a realist. I only consider things that can work as a matter of practicality, not things that should work if everyone shared my worldview.

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:31:20 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Yes. You are an idealist and I'm a realist. I only consider things that can work as a matter of practicality, not things that should work if everyone shared my worldview.


You didn't really answer my question, so I'll rephrase it.

Is there anything I've specifically stated in this thread regarding my worldview that you disagree with?

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RE: Sanctimonious Deficit Hawks Target Social Safety Net - 4/29/2010 9:44:05 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		You mean other than your worldview being that of a hopeless idealist?

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