RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID

RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (Full Version)

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zephyroftheNorth -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 10:26:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shannie quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Shannie there are not enough nurses...Supply and demand. We don't produce them that they will come from somewhere else.... I have no problem with any of this. No problem with a microchip-embedded national ID card on the premise of "controlling immigration?" So Domi mentions a shortage of local nurses and you..... go back to bitching about those cards, which has nothing to do with what he posted about. Why? Because it's easier to keep bitching about the cards than to present solutions. Of COURSE the U.S. will look elsewhere for qualified labour when there is noone to fill openings.That's what HE is talking about YOU on the other hand are talking about illegal immigration, which is another issue entirely. Several people have asked for your suggestions but of course because you don't have any you avoid the question, something you are very good at.

shannie -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 12:39:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth So Domi mentions a shortage of local nurses and you..... go back to bitching about those cards, which has nothing to do with what he posted about. Why? Because it's easier to keep bitching about the cards than to present solutions. Of COURSE the U.S. will look elsewhere for qualified labour when there is noone to fill openings.That's what HE is talking about YOU on the other hand are talking about illegal immigration, which is another issue entirely. Several people have asked for your suggestions but of course because you don't have any you avoid the question, something you are very good at. I don't need you to manage my responses to domi. And my "suggestion" is that we, the American people, oppose any impositions on the American people directed toward "immigration control." That's what I started the thread about. The inclusion of a national ID in the proposed "immigration reform." I don't give a damn about illegal immigration. And as I said, and you ignored, there are no shortages of American workers. The only problem is that the corporations, and immigration policy, are undercutting wage competition, period. If they can't attract Americans to the nursing field, they can raise the wages -- period.

tazzygirl -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 12:47:18 PM)
Whoa!!! Your solution to the shortage of nurses... which there, at this moment, isnt a shortage, just a shortage of nurses willing to work with the shitty conditions anymore... is to raise wages? Sorry honey, that wont work, no matter what fantasy land you visit. Nursing is dedication, hard work, and intense education. Not many can hack that. Schools are admitting many, graduating few, and fewer still pass the boards. And before anyone smacks the system that prevents just anyone from being a nurse, rethink that opinion. Do you want just anyone poking you with needles, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night, and being there to comfort when needed?

shannie -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 12:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Whoa!!! Your solution to the shortage of nurses... which there, at this moment, isnt a shortage, just a shortage of nurses willing to work with the shitty conditions anymore... is to raise wages? Sorry honey, that wont work, no matter what fantasy land you visit. Nursing is dedication, hard work, and intense education. Not many can hack that. Schools are admitting many, graduating few, and fewer still pass the boards. And before anyone smacks the system that prevents just anyone from being a nurse, rethink that opinion. Do you want just anyone poking you with needles, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night, and being there to comfort when needed? So that's an argument against bringing in nurses from the Philippines right? My mom was a nurse for 35 years. I know what nursing's about. There are plenty of bright hardworking good Americans that would go into nursing if the wages weren't so low relative to what you describe here.

Musicmystery -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 1:10:05 PM)
What you don't seem to realize is that you're arguing this both ways. If the market demanded nurses and people were willing to pay, wages would do that. If not, then the market has already settled the matter. If the market is being undercut, however, then why is there a shortage? Those two positions are contradictory.

tazzygirl -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 1:14:59 PM)
Do you believe the Philipine nurses had it easy coming here? I worked with many. Also some from canada. The international test is a bitch. They have to pass theirs, then the international, then the american nursing boards, Triple tested to prove their knowledge. These are smart nurses. At that time, nurses in the US made less than 15 an hour. Not alot of pay for the damn hard work we do. Its not much better now. But the opportunity is there. Now, im not sure what you are describing as low. Nurses in my area begin at 20 an hour. Not bad pay for a two or three year degree. Many are graduating with BS degrees, which only gives them more theory than nursing practice. That doesnt do anything for the nurse or patient at the bedside. Burn out rate is high in this field. Nurses get treated like shit from Dr's and administration. Pay is low, not as low as when i started, and definitely not as low as when my mother started. Money is not the issue. If you go into nursing for the money, you wont be there long at all. Nurses should be paid for the work they do, but you cant bribe them to come in with high wages to take the bullshit they are being shoveled day after day. But, as bad as it is here, its even worse in other countries. So of course nurses will try and flock here. They are equally as intelligent, hard working, and determined... all the things i like in a nurse i work with. Those work visas arent cheap, for the nurse of the hospital. lose your job and its back home with you. For example, i was working agency nursing at a small hospital making 25 an hour... 10 years ago... and i worked with a nurse from canada. She made 14 an hour, the hospital sponsored her and they agreed to pay for her living expenses. I made 3600 gross for the month without overtime ( and i always had overtime) She made 2016 gross a month with a 750 dollar stipend to pay for rent, that was shared between 3 other nurses. Allow me to clarify... they had to share the 750 dollars to pay for the rent and utilities there, each girl did not get the 750. In the end it evened out, i suppose. But to say nurses need more money? Im happy with the money i will make once i return. What nurses want is more respect.

popeye1250 -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 1:48:57 PM)
Jeeze Tazzy, I still think Nurses are underpaid (And Teachers too!) What I'm getting is that Shannie is saying that U.S. Citizens shouldn't be penalized by having to carry Another form of I.D. just because our govt doesn't want to, won't, can't or whatever enforce our immigration laws. I'm looking in my wallet right now,.. I have my driver's lisence, I have my "Department of Veteran's Affairs" card with photo, I have my "Concealed Weapons Permit" from S. Carolina, hard to get as they do a background and criminal check on you, I have a Costco card with pic, I have my American Legion dues card, my AARP card, my blockbuster card with all my info on it, no pic, my Medicare card, and a few other things. I have my passport in my safety deposit box along with birth certificate- long and short forms, my DD-214's from Navy and Coast Guard,. I have tax bills and mortgage bills all with all my info on them. I even have a document from the govt of Ireland stating that I am on the "foreign births register." Does it sound like I need "another" "I.D." especially from the federal govt? How's it going to make the country anymore secure by giving me another "document?" I'm "Documented." Just enforce our laws like they're supposed to be doing and don't start another useless buearacracy to unneccessarily burden the American People! When I was in if I didn't do my job I'd have been Court-Martialed, what the hell is going on in Washington that people in our govt don't don't think they have to do their jobs? Unless Obama gets a handle on this and quick the American People will be making some "decisions" "for" him on November 2nd. And he's not going to like it.

domiguy -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 2:03:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shannie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Whoa!!! Your solution to the shortage of nurses... which there, at this moment, isnt a shortage, just a shortage of nurses willing to work with the shitty conditions anymore... is to raise wages? Sorry honey, that wont work, no matter what fantasy land you visit. Nursing is dedication, hard work, and intense education. Not many can hack that. Schools are admitting many, graduating few, and fewer still pass the boards. And before anyone smacks the system that prevents just anyone from being a nurse, rethink that opinion. Do you want just anyone poking you with needles, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night, and being there to comfort when needed? So that's an argument against bringing in nurses from the Philippines right? My mom was a nurse for 35 years. I know what nursing's about. There are plenty of bright hardworking good Americans that would go into nursing if the wages weren't so low relative to what you describe here. You are an idiot....have you looked at the salary lately of what an RN can command....Not even including a potential "signing bonus." This is as of 2007....Bigger cities depending on demand might possibly pay more. [image]http://www.payscale.com/chart/146/Median-Salary-by-Years-Experience---Degree-Bachelor-of-Science-Nursing-BSN-United-States_V_USD_20100430081736-v2.0.jpg[/image] Go hunt down al qeada with pops....You are out of your element of these forums. Bring on the immigrants!!! I am so tired of banging our second and third generation Americans, they truly are a stupid lot. They actually feel it is their prerogative to be tended to without doing the hard work necessary that might lead to success.

tazzygirl -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 2:54:27 PM)
pops, im not advocating the introduction of another card. personally, i believe DL's should be national, along with any license, including Medical licensures (which Nursing is moving towards.. yay!) Its sort of interesting that everyone is upset about a national card, yet they tend to forget each state has all your information. Would not be difficult for the Fed Government to obtain what they need without your permission or approval. The fact that they dont should be telling in itself. I dont see this issue as losing autonomy or independence. Perhaps we need to look at the praticality and the ease that such a move would give us.

Jeffff -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 3:04:48 PM)
My kid is a nurse. It seems to be hard work and she is heavily recruited. It seems because of where she went to school other hospitals would suck her dick to get her to come there. Except she is a girl and all. She busted her ass and a large portion of her daddy's wallet to get where she is. Having said that, all it really took was ability and desire. I DO adore her and of course she is better than any other child (imho), however I am pretty sure most people could do it if they weren't dipshits and tried hard enough.

Irishknight -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 4:48:50 PM)
I was actually attending classes to be an RN when I was 19. Then... I realized that I didn't want to spend my life helping people. I am not a caregiver except in the cases of my own family. I'm not a good caregiver at all. I get frustrated easily and in some cases would gladly watch someone die without ever offering to help. To those who exceed my capacity for caring, I salute you for doing it.

popeye1250 -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/1/2010 9:52:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl pops, im not advocating the introduction of another card. personally, i believe DL's should be national, along with any license, including Medical licensures (which Nursing is moving towards.. yay!) Its sort of interesting that everyone is upset about a national card, yet they tend to forget each state has all your information. Would not be difficult for the Fed Government to obtain what they need without your permission or approval. The fact that they dont should be telling in itself. I dont see this issue as losing autonomy or independence. Perhaps we need to look at the praticality and the ease that such a move would give us. Tazzy, I know that, the govt already has our info, the federal govt is using "an I.D." as a cop out for not enforcing our immigration laws. DLs are recognised in all states already, why not concealed weapons permits?

thompsonx -> RE: proposed immigration bill includes national ID (5/2/2010 3:15:33 PM)
quote: Whoa!!! Your solution to the shortage of nurses... which there, at this moment, isnt a shortage, just a shortage of nurses willing to work with the shitty conditions anymore... is to raise wages? Doctors do it for money but nurses do not....bullshit. Sorry honey, that wont work, no matter what fantasy land you visit. Nursing is dedication, hard work, and intense education. More than a doctor?...Bullshit. Not many can hack that. Schools are admitting many, graduating few, and fewer still pass the boards. That would appear to be a problem with the school and not the nursing students...perhaps if they vetted the prospective students better their might not be such a high attrition rate. And before anyone smacks the system that prevents just anyone from being a nurse, rethink that opinion. Do you want just anyone poking you with needles, making life and death decisions in the middle of the night, Really...I thought it was the doctors who made the "life and death" decissions and now you tell us that it is really the nurses....Why do we need doctors then? and being there to comfort when needed?

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