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If anyone out there really believes that 24 million 'legal' tourists from Mexico visit Arizona each year, I know of some swamp land in northern Wisconsin that you could buy.

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A Fox new poll? Isn't that on the same level as taking a poll of High Times readers on whether marijuana should be legal and presenting that as a representation of the country?

So stoners arent people huh

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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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You want to guess the demographic of the people that listen to talk radio and respond to newspaper stories? How about a small guess....I am betting 99% white. Who is mostly against it? Whites....

These guys might disagree with you, but what would they know

http://wchbnewsdetroit.com/

When you grow up stewie you will be able to discern trying to make a point from an actual falshood. See you in about 20 years

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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A Fox new poll? Isn't that on the same level as taking a poll of High Times readers on whether marijuana should be legal and presenting that as a representation of the country?

So stoners arent people huh

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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A Fox new poll? Isn't that on the same level as taking a poll of High Times readers on whether marijuana should be legal and presenting that as a representation of the country?

So stoners arent people huh

People yes, an actual view of the "nations" thoughts on marijuana legalization, no.

Are you saying that their voice should not be heard or that their voice should be part of the overall voice?

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Check out the Department of Justice human trafficking...then while you are at it check out the National Drug Intelligence Center Arizona Threat Assessment.


Wouldn't it have been simpler to just say you did not know the answer?

For your second point you have never contacted me before on this subject...You may have mistaken me for someone else...or at least i don't remember

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8 U.S.C. � 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien


Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

now you know

It depends on the type of employment as to whether they pay income tax... many do not. It makes no difference if they or the employer does not pay.

In this country it is the employers responsibility to submit payroll taxes to the government.

I think we agree that the penalties for hiring undocumented workers are not enforced as they should be and are not strict enough to be a true deterrent.

I would agree that they are not enforced but the penalties are pretty strict. First offense is a felony (for each illegal alien) $10 K fine and jail time.


I don’t believe raising the minimum wage will be a deterrent. As it is now many unscrupulous employers pay illegal workers less then the current minimum wage...because they can and get away with it...who can complain?

Do you think that anyone is going to arm wrestle an illegal alien for a $5 an hour job....make that a $15 an hour job and you will see some action

My forefathers bought their land from the Cherokees then were massacred by the same at the behest of the British.

So you are mad at the Cherokees for what the Britts did????


Don’t give me the poor Indian crap... they took the land from their fellow Indian neighbors fighting and killing just as the Europeans did…They were no better or worse then my ancestors or yours.


I missed the part in history where the indians came to Europe and did the rape pillage and plunder thang
Could you link me to that?

Butch

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

A Fox new poll? Isn't that on the same level as taking a poll of High Times readers on whether marijuana should be legal and presenting that as a representation of the country?

So stoners arent people huh

People yes, an actual view of the "nations" thoughts on marijuana legalization, no.

Are you saying that their voice should not be heard or that their voice should be part of the overall voice?

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

A Fox new poll? Isn't that on the same level as taking a poll of High Times readers on whether marijuana should be legal and presenting that as a representation of the country?

So stoners arent people huh

People yes, an actual view of the "nations" thoughts on marijuana legalization, no.

Are you saying that their voice should not be heard or that their voice should be part of the overall voice?

I said neither.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Make sense my friend...what are you talking about... I gave you poof you asked for… read it or don't.

A link to a specific document would have been helpful. Instead you send me to look through tons of data.


I have no idea what your point is in stating code...it had nothing to do with what I said.


It was a link to show you where the law is and what penalities there are. Remember you said I had never informed you of such...Well know you have been informed that illegal aliens commit a misdomeanor when they for the fist time illegally cross the boarder.

Again what difference does it make on who submits taxes? Money is still being lost.

It is a matter of law...many would like to hammer the illegals for not paying taxes....it is not their responsibility it is the employers responsibility.

For a company like Walmart for instance it is peanuts...a better penalty would be mandatory incarceration.

If you had actually read the law I cited for you you would have seen the first offense for the employer is $10,000 and/or two years in the slam for each offense....that is about a years wages for each one.

If the minimum wage were raised to say $15 many employers would hire undocumented workers for $8 as hour. They could not complain because they are here illegally...what is so hard to understand about that?

As I stated before no one is going to arm wrestle an illegal alien for a five dollar an hour job but a fifteen dollar an hour job would.
The pressure here is generated not by the illegal alien but by the citizen who need a job that pays more than five dollars an hour.


The Brits did not do it the Cherokees did for money, influence, and land...look up S. Carolina history.


You said the Britts paid them to do it....duuhh

You miss a lot like common sense when it comes to history ... we all started in Africa and moved and conquered our way throughout the world...and we are still doing the same today. It is a fault of man in general not any one particular civilisation we all suffer from our greed.

And so far you have failed to show us where the indians went to Europe and did that rape pillage and plunder thangie


The Cherokee were forced into S. Carolina because of failed warfare with the Iroquois and Delaware…hardly the peace loving flower children you seem to believe them to be.

That would be your characterization not mine...please do not put words in my mouth


They were just normal people just like the Europeans who were competing for limited resources in an area they had no claim to.

You are saying that the Cherokee had no claim to the land they lived on so it was kewel for the Europeans to take it and murder them


They suffered from the same greed for land that my European ancestors did.

Bullshit


I am not defending anyone but not condemning them either.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

"Illegal is illegal... it would be different if there were not legal ways to get work permits and come to America. There is no reason migrate workers can’t enter this country legally. "

What does this have to do with code?

It has to do with folks like you and merc who cop an attitude about brown people commiting misdomeanors and give lip service to the fact that the employers are commiting felonies.
This speaks directly to ones credibility when you would press for heavy enforcement of a misdomeanor and give only passing acknowledgement of the felony that is not even investigated when INS takes a hundred workers away from a factory.


When it comes to taxes again you are not making sense…fault is not in question but the results.

The employeer commits a felony by defrauding the government of it's taxes. You blame the illegal immigrant for not paying for the services he uses (which he clearly does pay for but his employer has stolen the money) and you want to ignore that and say it is a loss to the govt and it matters not who did the stealing as long as you can blame the illegal alien.

Dahh they did it for money and promises of land from the British…this after they sold the land to my ancestors then killed them. You need to read some S. Carolina history or stop talking about something you have no knowledge of.

Do you actually believe that you are the only one who has ever read a history book?

I am not putting words into you mouth

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hardly the peace loving flower children you seem to believe them to be.

These were your words. No where will you find that I have said or implied this...
So yes you were attempting to put words in my mouth.


just stating facts that show, at least to me, that they were no more noble and deserving of the land then the European colonists... They were both filled with greed.

You certainly entitled to your opinion no matter how ill informed or foolish it is.
To you the fact that this tribe fought wars with that tribe is the same as Europeans coming to this country and systematically murdering the inhabitants and taking the land for themselves.
I am sure that wrapped in that cacoon of bullshit you feel fully justified in your position in life. That "dem injuns" on the reservation got exactly what they had comming to them and you are entitled to their lands cuz you have brought "civilization" to dem igernent savages.

They both took the land by force so no… neither had any more claim to the land then I do today.

Bull shit… good rebuttal...I forgive you… I understand your frustration when confronted by common sense.


It is common for some, when confronted by ignorant statements, to use the term "bullshit"...
I am sure you are not unfamiliar with the term.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Where have I ever said anything detrimental to undocumented workers? Now who is putting words in whose mouth…you are pitiful.

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There are millions of illegal aliens in this country taking jobs from millions of unemployed citizens….not paying taxes…having children that often drain social services and school districts.

This of course is not negative in any sense of the word?



I am not blaming the worker…show me where I did. I won’t let you bend my words to match your little war with another poster.

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There are millions of illegal aliens in this country taking jobs from millions of unemployed citizens….not paying taxes…having children that often drain social services and school districts.

Just who are you blaming in this quote if it is not the worker?



I am the only one giving facts about history here.

Actually you are just giving us your opinion of the events in questions. You have yet to actually give us any actaul "history"

As I said before I am not defending anyone just pointing out that all civilizations and all peoples of the word, including American Indians, gained and or held their land by force.


And they went to Europe and systimatically murdered the inhabitants there and took their lands by force...
So far I have not been able to find that reference on google.

Trying to say one group is above this base nature of man is foolish.

Now wash your dirty mouth out with soap

Not until you show me your birth certificate

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Stating a fact is neither negative nor positive it is just a fact.

I showed you that your facts were incorrect. The tax drain you reference is caused by the criminal employers who do not remit the withheld taxes.

You never asked me for my opinion on these facts you just assumed my stance.

Your stance was quite clear from your post that I qouted for you.

I hold no blame to people trying to make a living for their families except that they should enter this country legally.

This is a fatuous arguement as has been shown by cadenes that the immigration quotas for Mexico are exclusionary.
So for you to hide behind that pile of horse shit is less than ethical.


There is a problem caused by illegal immigration and it is well documented.

Actually just the opposite has been documented


There is also a lack of jobs in America for our own citizens and they are without work in many circumstances because of undocumented workers.

No they are out of work because of politicians and unscrupulous employers coluding to keep the employers from being prosecuted.

If I have any blame it is the employers that take advantage of their desperation to increase profit.

Here we are in complete agreement

Fences and border patrols will not stop illegal immigration…perhaps slow it but never stop it…and it will cost money we can’t afford to build and maintain them. There is only one way and that is to take away the incentive to come here in the first place. That requires hard strict laws with prison time.

As I pointed out earlier the penality is two years in the joint and/or a $10,000 fine for the first offense for each illegal alien...the subsequent offences would be even higher.
We already have the hard strict laws you are calling for. What we don't have is enforcement.




I would put the money proposed to build more fences into enforcement. If I was a roofer in St. Louis or a janitorial firm in New York and was thinking about increasing my profit by hiring illegal workers I would not do it if I knew I would get 20 years in prison without parole if caught.

This would dry up the jobs overnight and thus stop the illegal immigration. There is a need for migrant workers and I’m sure there are some industries that can’t find workers and I’m all for opening the job market to other countries…BUT legally and documented.

You must remember the American Indian was at one time a member of Europe and Asia

Europe....I had heard that some dna had been found which suggested that but so far I have not seen any actual data.
So if you have a link I would love to see it.
The best record now is that the western hemisphere was empty before some 75,000 years ago.
I find it more than a little self serving that you justify the European rape of the indiginous peoples of the western hemisphere with such purile reasoning. Especially since you are an obvious benificiary of that rape.


and they conquered a new continent. So Europeans and Asians were just fighting their own relatives… Can’t you see this is part of us like it or not.

Somehow that makes it all ok in your world....

Butch

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You can point out the law all you want...but it is not working and has not stopped the problem. Only strict enforcement and stiffer penalties will make it work.