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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/9/2010 8:57:28 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		No thanks....I like adding my rational thoughts to your ideas of polish random stupidity.

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/9/2010 9:05:10 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

No thanks....I like adding my rational thoughts to your ideas of polish random stupidity.


No need to offend the polish! What did they ever do to you?

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/9/2010 6:45:19 PM   
LordDarkPleasure


Posts: 91
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

So I can answer pretty confidently that while a relationship based on consent/non consent can occur and last a while, it will most probably not last forever.  Simply because if this is something that you are into enough to have a relationship based on it, you do it at a rate that will invariably be more than what a sub can handle and attrition will occur.


Again, this is presuming that the dominant can't hold back? I'm reminded of the story of the goose and the golden egg. Greed can destroys the source of happiness and if when one tries to more out of someone/something than they can give, they risk losing everything.

It's really all about balance. A wise submissive man once said to me in slightly SAM mode: "You know Ms, just because you could doesn't mean you should". He was being playful, but beneath all that, he's absolutely right.

- LA



Absolutely, but I think that Ironically a in a healthy Consent/non-consent relationship, you would have the same level of power as in any standard D/s relationship, which would relegate Consent/non-consent to a fantasy level, making you wonder how to make it more of a reality, continuing the cycle...

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/9/2010 7:40:18 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I'd really appreciate if you would elaborate.

- LA

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/9/2010 8:54:40 PM   
slaveservice2854


Posts: 3
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is an area where subs and slaves are separated.  I'm always amused by the number of people that claim they are a slave, but then have a list of things they will, or will not, submit to and things they like, or dislike.  I understand that one cannot just enter a new relationship and state, honestly, that they have no limits.  I do, however, believe that if one is a true, consensual slave, and meets a Mistress/Master/Owner with whom they share a basic lifestyle philosophy with, they should be prepared to live a non-consensual lifestyle.  In my opinion, if a slave is given options, of consenting or not consenting to various activities or use, then they are nothing more than a sub or fetishist.

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 2:41:08 PM   
LordDarkPleasure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I'd really appreciate if you would elaborate.

- LA


Oh I'm just stating what could be called the "cycle of fantasy". 

-Basically you have a normal, healthy D/s relationship. 
-Then you establish that you have a fantasy that goes beyond your currently healthy relationship
-Then you think about how to make the fantasy more of a reality than it currently is
-It turns the relation into an unealthy relationship
-You realize it and get the relationship healthy again, relegating your fantasy to, well, a fantasy.

And the cycle continues.

Of course sometime the attempt of living out an edgier fantasy works, or it might breaks the relationship. but it wasn't the  point of my earlier post.

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 2:44:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Ok. I understand a bit more now. I'm not sure why in this cycle the relationship has to get unhealthy though.

- LA

Edited to add: Salut! fellow Montrealer :-)

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/10/2010 2:45:57 PM >

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:14:42 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Ok. I understand a bit more now. I'm not sure why in this cycle the relationship has to get unhealthy though.



This is something that stumps me, too.  Relationships in such a dynamic can certainly be, and remain, very healthy.  While there is potential for harm if in the wrong hands, it's not a certain roadmap to harm, which is where some people seem to be leaning.


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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:23:30 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Ok. I understand a bit more now. I'm not sure why in this cycle the relationship has to get unhealthy though.



This is something that stumps me, too.  Relationships in such a dynamic can certainly be, and remain, very healthy.  While there is potential for harm if in the wrong hands, it's not a certain roadmap to harm, which is where some people seem to be leaning.



I agree. There is potential for harm in a vanilla relationship. At least in this type of dynamic, intentions are on the table.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:31:24 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I agree. There is potential for harm in a vanilla relationship. At least in this type of dynamic, intentions are on the table.

- LA


Precisely.  In the wrong hands, any kind of relationship risks harm.  I think in discussions like this, people consider the worst case scenario and run with it, as though it's a certainty. It's like when someone mentions they do not limit their owner, the guaranteed next question is, "Well what if he wants to cut your limbs off?" 

The key is, know who you're involving yourself with, before making such a commitment. 


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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:38:49 PM   
subtee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

It's like when someone mentions they do not limit their owner, the guaranteed next question is, "Well what if he wants to cut your limbs off?" 



Or your HAIR?!

~shudder
Hi LadyA!


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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:47:02 PM   
LordDarkPleasure


Posts: 91
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		well it doesn't always of course.  The problem however is that in a D/s relationship the Dom will usually have as much control as he can get away with, and if he wants more, that usually means the more he wants is in a grey zone.  That said, I don't claim its how it always work out, and you probably have more real life D/s experience than me regarding that.

Et bonsoir a toi aussi! je parlerais francais mais on perdrait 90% des lecteurs de ce forum ;)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 4:59:18 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

It's like when someone mentions they do not limit their owner, the guaranteed next question is, "Well what if he wants to cut your limbs off?" 



Or your HAIR?!

~shudder
Hi LadyA!


LOL yeah, or that.  The man has already stated his preference for blondes, but my hairdresser said she won't do it.   I told him apparently my hairdresser has a hard limit for him


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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:10:36 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

It's like when someone mentions they do not limit their owner, the guaranteed next question is, "Well what if he wants to cut your limbs off?" 



Or your HAIR?!

~shudder
Hi LadyA!



Oh subtee, I would never cut your hair off! No no no... I would put it in little pigtails and give one to Jefff and one to Domi and watch them play tug-o-war ;-)

- LA

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:12:37 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure

well it doesn't always of course.  The problem however is that in a D/s relationship the Dom will usually have as much control as he can get away with, and if he wants more, that usually means the more he wants is in a grey zone.  That said, I don't claim its how it always work out, and you probably have more real life D/s experience than me regarding that.

Et bonsoir a toi aussi! je parlerais francais mais on perdrait 90% des lecteurs de ce forum ;)



Except that there are many that like being pushed and being in that grey zone as you say it. It doesn't necessarily lead to something unhealthy if it's consentual and open communication is encouraged and used. It's when they start pushing into the no-go or black zones that it MAY be a problem, even then though coummunication and consent are key.

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:16:20 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


Oh subtee, I would never cut your hair off! No no no... I would put it in little pigtails and give one to Jefff and one to Domi and watch them play tug-o-war ;-)

- LA


HARD LIMIT! They already knocked my books out of my arms, lifted my skirt over my bottom and took my lunch money.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:18:34 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure
well it doesn't always of course.  The problem however is that in a D/s relationship the Dom will usually have as much control as he can get away with, and if he wants more, that usually means the more he wants is in a grey zone.  That said, I don't claim its how it always work out, and you probably have more real life D/s experience than me regarding that.


A gready Dom or Domme is going to find him or herself either alone (or with someone unstable who needs unhealthy dynamics). Remember my post about the goose and the golden egg?

I guess what I want above all things kinky activity is a healthy relationship. That will come first. I also tend to want men I have affection for to stick around so I do think before I act. Dominance is not only about control, it's also a lot about self-control.

quote:

Et bonsoir a toi aussi! je parlerais francais mais on perdrait 90% des lecteurs de ce forum ;)


Effectivement! Mais c'est très cool de voir des gens de Montréal ici :-)

- LA




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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:20:15 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


Oh subtee, I would never cut your hair off! No no no... I would put it in little pigtails and give one to Jefff and one to Domi and watch them play tug-o-war ;-)

- LA


HARD LIMIT! They already knocked my books out of my arms, lifted my skirt over my bottom and took my lunch money.


There are no hard limits here subtee. You're on the C/NC thread ;-) And you are lucky all they took was your lunch money. If I would have lifted your skirt, you would have been in for much worse ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 5:53:14 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		LA, I agree that a consensual non-consent relationship can be very healthy and realistic for some people. I do have to agree with LDP that a lot of people on both sides of the kneel get "eyes bigger than their tummy syndrome," so to speak. There are some dynamics and things that people do that sound really hot, but I know that I would be miserable or unable to uphold my end of the bargain day in and day out for years, if I were to attempt to incorporate them into my relationships. I tried very hard to find out what my Master's expectations would be as much as possible up-front, and was fairly certain that I could abide by them realistically.

I didn't use "hard limit" terminology with him, and I didn't want to be in a position of saying "no" or "not yet" within our relationship if it was at all possible to avoid it. So, I mentioned the things I was concerned about or that I'd previously had difficulties with before I committed to him and to our dynamic. Some of those things he wasn't interested in, others, I have done since, in baby steps, with lots of praise. He doesn't push me to the point where I am tempted to rebel or defy him, and he is very approachable, has a sense of humor, and I trust in his common sense and understanding of me.

A lot of people seem to seek out hard limits specifically so that they can push as many of them as possible, as far as they can get away with. I try to stay away from people like that!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Consensual/Non-Consensual Play - 5/10/2010 6:27:44 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
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quote:

A lot of people seem to seek out hard limits specifically so that they can push as many of them as possible, as far as they can get away with. I try to stay away from people like that!


And that is a good philosophy.

As far as the "eyes bigger than their tummy syndrome", I see this as much in the vanilla world as in the kinky world. It isn't something that only Dominants/Tops/Sadists go through. I mean if you really want to see it, all you have to do is go to your average all you can eat buffet! ;-)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 120
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