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RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/7/2010 11:50:51 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Dude... you are wasting your time with RO.... sorry, that's just how it is...:)



you are right but I am not going to waste my time with him.


I dont dance with bullshit very well.   Everything that tard says wreaks of gi joe here we go.  Good sounding bullshit but bullshit nonetheless.  He just repeated everything he said last time.  No need to blast it again.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 5:58:38 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		An update.


The White Sox lost 7-4 in extra innings.

Buerhle pitched well enough to win but Bobby Fucking Jenks gave it up.

There were very very few hot bitches, but the seats were excellent!

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:29:23 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You could ask me questions about the Army... You could PM me your service related questions if you don't want my responses to embarrass you in public... or we could turn to a third party, who I could show my DA 31, LES, ERB, etc to, and destroy your attempts to cast doubt on my claims to being a service member.


You aint embarrassing anyone but yourself, so far.   I don't need to see your fuckin paperwork, although it might be nice for you to catch a DD214.  I know a lotta guys who never got to see theirs, and seeing that is pretty important in my book.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 7:12:07 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I told you guys they drug the troops.

Now we know.

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 5:43:42 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, one chunk of bullshit at a time, lets go back to the swiftboat fuckheads, now who among them actually served with Kerry, on the boat, and were there when he won his medals?



Why not just answer the questions? Oh yeah, you can't or else your argument flies right out of the window. Good luck convincing yourself you are right.


Answer: Zero. Thanks for playing, and don't forget your parting gifts.


One of the Swift Boat Veterans, Steve Gardner, served on John Kerry's boat, with John Kerry, as one of his gunners. Based on his first hand accounts, John Kerry did things like... deploying his boat AWAY from a firefight that a sister patrol boat was engaged in. He didn't go in to assist, to suppress, to support, or even attempt to flank had that been feasible. He ordered the boat away from the fight.

Also, you're trying to insinuate that if they didn't serve on John Kerry's boat, they don't have a leg to stand on when talking about him. You, as a veteran, should know better.

There are three line platoons and one headquarter platoon in a company. A rifleman in First Platoon would know soldiers in the other platoons, to include their mannerisms and what type of soldiers they are. Absent of first hand observations of specific soldiers in the other platoons, they have accounts of other soldiers in those platoons. You had to experience something like this when you were in.

Those patrol boats operated out of a patrol base. Once those boats were parked/moored, the crews shifted to doing things as residents of that patrol base... to include interacting with other sailors that crew the other patrol boats. Then we have John Kerry's chain of command, who also had quarters in that patrol base.

These guys, even if they weren't members of John Kerry's crew, would know him just the same, enough to voice what they voiced during the 2004 Elections. The fact that you'd even try to insinuate the "they weren't part of his crew, they can't talk," canard is pitiful. Someone out to make you do iron mikes and low crawls for implying that.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 5:48:37 PM   
herfacechair


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Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Dude... you are wasting your time with RO.... sorry, that's just how it is...:)


I know, I've been involved with online debates for years, what's going on in this thread is no different from the others that I've debated on. My intentions aren't to change his mind, but to continuously destroy his arguments.

_____________________________

As long as I have a face, beautiful women have a place to sit.

http://herfacechair.blogspot.com/ & http://twitter.com/herfacechair

Final Say: http://vox-ultima.blogspot.com/2011_08_01_archive.html

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 5:51:52 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Dude... you are wasting your time with RO.... sorry, that's just how it is...:)


He's wasting his time with a lot of other people, too. I agreed with a lot of what he said at first, and it sounded credible to me, until he made the assertion that our troops were attacked with sarin, mustard gas, and other chemical agents. Now I don't believe a word he says about anything, unfortunately. 


Same thing with you, I've been involved with online debates, like what's taking place in this thread, for years. Not much difference when it comes to the drama and tactics between this thread and the ones I've debated on. I take sadistic pleasure in taking these people's arguments apart.

As for the statement about our troops and sarin gas:

From MSNBC: "Bomb Said to hold deadly sarin gas explodes in Iraq"

"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," said Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq. "The round had been rigged as an IED [improvised explosive device] which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.

Your continuing to not believe this, or anything else I say, gives your true nature away. Heck, you never really agreed with anything I said, even before I mentioned the chemical agents. Your refusing to believe anything I say doesn't discount a cold hard reality, that my statements constitute fact. You're one of the people that I've came across, both here and on the other threads/message boards, that try to pretend that they're "neutral" or "centrist," when they're really on the left. You were willing to believe me to the extent that my observations, and what I knew, didn't conflict with your core assumptions.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 5:56:38 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Dude... you are wasting your time with RO.... sorry, that's just how it is...:)


He's wasting his time with a lot of other people, too. I agreed with a lot of what he said at first, and it sounded credible to me, until he made the assertion that our troops were attacked with sarin, mustard gas, and other chemical agents. Now I don't believe a word he says about anything, unfortunately.


Yeah, I have to agree with you. That's the problem in today's climate. Question anything and you are not supportive of the troops.


This isn't a case where you're just now coming around to agreeing to something the poster said. You've disagreed with my position before I started this thread. The fact that you question these statements doesn't make you somebody that doesn't support the troops. I never made that claim. I'm not accusing you of not supporting the troops. However; they've accurately pointed out that people's conduct on this thread, with regards to my posts, puts them on the same footing as those people that mistreated the troops coming back from the Vietnam War.

There's a responsible way to handle disagreement, and there's a belligerent, abusive, way to handle disagreement. It's to the later that the "you're virtually spitting on his face" comment addresses.

Again, you take issue with this as you don't agree with what I'm saying. Had I made statements that you agreed with, you would've agreed with the Vietnam Veteran treatment comments. I've seen other people using your tricks on other message boards.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:00:09 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

To those who thanked me for my service, Sanity, Heritic, Thishereboi, DaddysredheadX, Vendaval, kana, RacerJim, and everybody else. Thanks.


I thanked you also but you do not feel like acknowledging it...why???
It would appear that common courtesy is not so common.


Unlike you, the people that I acknowledged were genuine and sincere in their gratitude. I could also gather that from comments made by some of the people that disagree with me here. Your "thanking me" involved sarcasm, comments containing similar themes of the arguments you advanced the last time you and I debated. Including your "thanks" would've diminished the other poster's gratitude.

I didn't acknowledge your comment, as you didn't mean it. On behalf of Halliburton? Get real, more on that later.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:06:06 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Considering the media was lead along the path like the rest of us, I find that hard to believe.

No one, not Congress, not reporters, no one really objected to the war.

Colin Powell and George Tenant said there were WMD's so off we went and the press of all stripes supported it.

Later when none was found, it became an issue.

You are asking us to believe that it was covered up by a vast conspiracy. That's as nutty as RO


The press started to spin things to make the US, and its allies, come across as "evil," as soon as the war started. I noticed this with their reporting on Afghanistan, where they started to accuse us of killing civilians indiscriminately... while conveniently ignoring things like, say, the Taliban deliberately placing anti aircraft guns inside neighborhoods to draw western firepower in to maximize civilian casualties.

The media didn't really support the war, as they gave air time to the people that protested it, the closer we got to the Iraq invasion, the more airtime these protesters seemed to have received. I heard allot of argument, coming from the media, about letting the inspections continue... never mind the fact that these inspections failed for years before Saddam kicked the inspection teams out of Iraq.

The mainstream media did their best to hide the fact that sarin, a chemical agent/hence WMD, was found in post invasion Iraq. Those that did report it, did their best to spin the discovery, or hide its significance, to try to prevent the Republicans/Bush from being vindicated in their assessment, and to prevent the liberal's super lie from being destroyed.

I'm not saying that this is a vast conspiracy, I indicated, on this thread, that because of their stance (press predominantly democrat voters), they're automatically going to be biased against Bush/Republicans. Their reporting reflects that.

But, since you don't want to take my word, read the following Books:

Journalistic Fraud: How the New York Times Distorts the News and Why It Can No Longer be Trusted, by Bob Kohn.

BIAS: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distorts the News, by Bernard Goldberg

And

Arrogance: Rescuing America from the Media Elite, Bernard Goldberg.

"None" were found... yeah right, that's one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated... and what's even sadder than that is that the media successfully hoodwinked millions of people into believing that crap. Things like that make it hard for me to argue against posters from other countries who lambast the American education system.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:10:14 PM   
herfacechair


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Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssss.

Note the posting history regarding asynch war, and why the military hates the press, he is pushing alot of slanted agenda here.



Calling a spade a spade doesn't constitute pushing a slanted agenda. We are involved in asymmetrical warfare, and the press doesn't report the complete facts about Iraq. Those are facts. You don't slant the facts, but you can slant a story... as evidence by your posts about both, the issues and what I've said.

I still remember your blatant strawman tactics in a previous debate.


They also don't show pictures of combat or coffins returning home. Your point is becoming weaker and weaker.

If you indeed have been on active combat duty, you have my respect for that. It's a shitty way to live.

But don't think that buys you cart blanche on your evidence and opinions.


In order to claim that my point is becoming "weaker" and "weaker," you have to actually advance a logical argument, with facts, to prove your point. You've miserably failed to do that. And you also don't have a point. What do pictures of combat and coffins returning to the states have to do with my comment about asymmetrical warfare, and the media not reporting the complete facts?

Google "picture of war coffins" and you'll not only get pictures of coffins, but news articles of the Pentagon approving of lifting the ban on these photos, as well as links of news articles showing photos of coffins coming back.

You simply don't have a point.

Whether you like it or not, my being in Iraq, and having first hand experience and observation of what goes on there, puts me on a better footing, and gives my stated observations, factual validity over the opinions of those people that disagree with me. Your lack of military experience in Iraq does not disqualify you from having an opinion on the Iraq War, it simply makes your opinion uninformed on maters dealing with the Iraq war.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:14:23 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

This isn't just about "one man's account." This is about a first hand account of what's happening in Iraq,



You may be a little too young to remember General waste more land giving his little pep talks from the front telling the american people the first hand blah blah balh...
Funny your tail sounds just like his...I know his story was bullshit because I was there when he was running his mouth.


Example of a straw man argument

Person A advances Argument X

Person B advances Argument Y (corrupted version of Argument X)

Person B refutes Argument Y, claims Argument Y is wrong

Therefore, Argument X is "wrong."

-----

Now, let's apply this to the ongoing argument.

1. Person A = herfacechair

2. Person B = thompsonx

3. Argument X equals herfacechair's first hand experience in Iraq.

4. Argument Y equals thompsonx's opinion on Westmoreland's Vietnam War Statement, attempts to equate Gen Westmoreland to Herfacechair.

As they say in Algebra, let's start plugging these values in:

A. Herfacechair advances his first hand experiences in Iraq.

B. Thompsonx advances opinion on Westmoreland/Vietnam

C. Thompsonx claims that Westmoreland/Vietnam = wrong.

D. Therefore, Herfacechair/Iraq = wrong.

Hate to break this out to you high speed, but you're comparing apples to oranges when comparing what someone in Vietnam said, and what I said about my experiences in Iraq. You've yet to come here and provide me with evidence that I'm "wrong." The best that you could do is come up with a straw man argument.

Your opinion about my experiences in Iraq are just that, opinions, and they don't prove wrong the things that I observed while I was there.

As to your insinuating, through your strawman argument, that my first hand experience accounts are "bullshit," I have this to say.

Your lack of military experience in Iraq does not disqualify you from having an opinion on the Iraq War, it simply makes your opinion uninformed on maters dealing with the Iraq war.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:18:54 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

So your point is, not everyone in the military is pure of heart or necessarily believable.

Oddly enough, that is my point too.


That wasn't the point that I was making. I was refuting the comment that people didn't take Kerry's service seriously simply because he was a Democrat. Do realize that I'm part of the majority that's believable.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:22:38 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

RacerJim: The reason many Vietnam Veterans diminished John Kerry's service during the 2004 election was because during his 1971 testimony under oath before the Senate Foreign Relations Committe on Vietnam Affairs he desparaged the service of all Vietnam Veterans.

You mean he told the truth so to you that is a bad thing...why?

In addition, if not moreover, during that same testimony Kerry self-incriminated himself as a traitor and war criminal.

The war criminal thingie pretty much covers everyone who served in Viet Nam.
The traitor thingie is no different than ray gun ronnie dealing with the Iranians while carter was still president. If it was treason for kerry then it is treason for ray gun ronnie.



No, he didn't tell the truth about what they were doing in Vietnam.

From PJ's (Airforce Pararescuemen Vietnam Veterans) in Vietnam website:

Myth: Atrocities by U.S. troops in Vietnam were common

War is brutal and not fair. Innocent people get killed. Isolated atrocities committed by American soldiers produced torrents of outrage from antiwar critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any attention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 South Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and schoolteachers. "No More Vietnams" by Richard Nixon

This is matched by information on 11thCavNam dot com.

But wait! You might say, I, thompsonx, was there! So was my dad, did six combat tours in Vietnam, and the above myth buster matched what he said in response to claims that US service member based atrocities were "widespread."

Also, Ronald Reagan wasn't serving as a useful idiot to our enemies, as John Kerry was. There's a BIG difference.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:26:27 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What Kerry did was to try an put an end to an unjust an ill started and a highly unpopular war. He didn't "cost" American lives he saved them.

You are at least 39 years old (probably older) and are fighting in Iraq. Good for you. Thanks.

I don't believe you nor do I value your assessments. Stay well.


What Kerry did was provide fuel for the anti war protestors. Their (anti war crowd) activities, in tern, lead to the North Vietnamese continuing the fight when they otherwise would've surrendered. Their staying in the fight did contribute to more soldiers dying.

It doesn't stop there. Guess what our enemies today think?

That if you outlast the will of the American Electorate, like what happened in Vietnam, you'll eventually prevail against the Americans. The Anti Iraqi Forces had this in mind when they kept fighting us... when they otherwise would've surrendered earlier. American attitudes during this time gave them hope that they would've successfully pulled another Vietnam. Hence, an indirect contribution to more soldiers dying, during the War on Terrorism, who otherwise wouldn't have.

What Kerry did not only had consequences on what happened during Vietnam, it had consequences that lasted into the current war. Kerry didn't care about whether the war should end or not, he cared about his own political ambitions.

I doubt that you'll understand how things like that would contribute to our, most service member's/most veteran's, distaste for what John Kerry did.

I'm 40 years old.

Your not believing me, and your not valuing what I have to say, doesn't change the reality that what I'm presenting with regards to recent events in Iraq are facts, and firsthand accounts of what's happening there.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:31:44 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

For decades, the Vietnamese had a section in their war victory museum, dedicated to John Kerry and the anti war demonstrators.


When were you in viet nam to see this?


That's a strawman argument. What I actually said:

For decades, the Vietnamese had a section in their war victory museum, dedicated to John Kerry and the anti war demonstrators. They might have taken his picture down as a result of the heat John Kerry received during the 2004 Elections.-herfacechair

That's one, of many, pieces of information, contained in the Swift Boat Veteran book that I read, that you can't dismiss as a bunch of lies. The communist know that without Kerry et all's efforts, history would've been much different for them.-herfacechair

WHOAH! We get a totally different message when we include everything that I say, don't we?!?! Now, let's use a simple reading comprehension exercise that should've prevented you from even asking a stupid question.

"That's one, of many, pieces of information, contained in the Swift Boat Veteran book that I read, that you can't dismiss as a bunch of lies." - herfacechair

Hmmm, what, exactly, did I mean by the word, "that" in that last sentence? The sentence you decided to take out of context maybe? "the Vietnamese had a section in their war victory museum, dedicated to John Kerry and the anti war demonstrators." - herfacechair

THAT's what I meant when I said, "that's" in that sentence.

The picture that they had in their book doesn't lie. It was taken by Bill Lupetti, A Swift Boat Veteran that was visiting Vietnam when he took that picture.

In case you didn't catch that... Bill Lupetti, while in Vietnam, at that museum, saw Kerry's picture, then subsequently took a picture of Kerry's picture, while he was in Vietnam. Common sense dictates that Bill Lupetti needed to be in Vietnam to take that picture.

The intelligent thing to do, in this case, is to take Bill Lupetti's first hand account at face value.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:34:50 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

This isn't just about "one man's account." This is about a first hand account of what's happening in Iraq,



You may be a little too young to remember General waste more land giving his little pep talks from the front telling the american people the first hand blah blah balh...
Funny your tail sounds just like his...I know his story was bullshit because I was there when he was running his mouth.


We do not seek a wider war.......
We are winning the war of attrition...
Will fall like dominoes....
SMA William Wooldridge. ... et al.



"We do not seek a wider war." - Lyndon B. Johnson on March, 1968

"We are winning the war of attrition" Widespread use.

"Will fall like dominoes...." There were communists in countries in that area, and Soviet/Chinese agents that were willing to enable them and ultimately set up puppet communist regimes. Colonel Stanislav Lunev, ranking GRU defector to the US, admitted to this fact, re, Soviets and communist regimes wanting to spread communism. Former members of the Soviet Politburro admitted to this fact after the Soviet Union collapsed. Our involvement in Vietnam halted communist advance/progress, throughout South East Asia.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:45:07 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Poor soldiers always want to fight the "good war."

Those days are done.

Now the best we can hope for is some revisionistic history to make your losses not seem like they were in vain.


This isn't about wanting to fight a good war, this is about the majority of us fighting for what we believe in, this is about us understanding why we're doing what we're doing in the Middle East.

Again, the fabrication that Vietnam was a complete loss is just that, revisionist history. What you argue is the product of revisionist history; we won every major battle in Vietnam. We also won every major battle in Iraq. Those are facts.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:47:09 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair
From MSNBC: "Bomb Said to hold deadly sarin gas explodes in Iraq"


damn good thing they found it before it went off, heel a weapon like that would have taken out the whole east coast.


SAID?  Thanks for giveing us the FACTS!




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer yo... - 5/8/2010 6:48:14 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

--  and we are there for OIL.

We are in Afghanistan for the drugs as this harms Russia.  See opium wars.

Kissinger says that soldiers are dogs-  hence dog tags.

Unfortunately they inject these guys up with all kinds of experimental chemicals- and they drug them too.

You work for the bankers.   Not ordinary man in the street.

Tell me- are you an Oath Keeper?



This war was never about oil. If we were about invading countries with plenty of oil supplies, we would've invaded Venezuela. Again, we get the majority of our oil supplies from the western hemisphere, with Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela being our biggest oil suppliers.

No, we're not in Afghanistan for the drugs... otherwise our troops wouldn't be involved with destroying Afghan drug farms.

Haven't been exposed to the chemicals and drugs that you claim is experimented on us. We don't work for the banks, and we do take an oath as part of enlisting, or accepting a commission.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 240
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