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herfacechair -> RE: Back from Iraq for a short time, ready to answer your questions if you have any... (7/12/2010 4:24:57 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub
I have read this thread, mostly giggling at the insanity, and thought I would have no reason to reply, cause on the political threads, I normally show my ignorance.
WTF, one more time of showin it won't matter.
I was only in the Army for 3 years, and it has been fuck, has been 26 years since I got out. Hold on while I let that register. 26 years?!?!?!? But, I am only 30!
Damn you for making me do that math tonight. Now I feel old suddenly.
But, unless just about everything I was taught has changed in the few years since I got out, I do not believe any officer, much less a colonel, said the following to any troop he was in command of.
quote:
On the part about coming down on orders and doing it. I'll tell you what a Colonel in the medical field, a psychiatrist, told us while we were in Iraq. I was NCO escort for someone that had to go to mental health as an "in patient." He said that what we ultimately did, we WANTED to do it. Even when someone gives you an order to do something, you have two choices. You could follow the order, or you could disobey it. The choice that you chose is something that you WANTED to do.
You follow orders because you follow the damn orders. Period. Unless you want to try to convince me that this colonel believes that everyone who had killed in battle wanted to be a killer. They did it because it was their job. I am sure there are a few exceptions, there always are, but I still don't buy for one second that you are telling the truth there.
And I don't buy, for any second, the fallacy and rubbish that you're spewing in that post.
There were three other people in the room then. The private that I was the NCO escort for, another NCO, and the private that she was an NCO escort for. Both privates had issues dealing with anger and stress. I don't recall seeing you in the room when the colonel said that. It HAPPENED! Since you're not even making an attempt to understand what's going on here, you don't even have a leg to stand on when farting about me "not telling the truth." I was there when he said it, you weren't.
So let me go real sloooooow for you!
Let's see, where did this take place? Look at one of the bolded red statements in the part of my post that you quoted. Did you see those bolded red statements? They're not blue like the rest of my post. Do you see them? One statement had something to do with a combat stress clinic. What were we doing there? The private having issues maybe? Certainly, a veteran like you would KNOW that said Colonel would not say that in context of "being in command," but rather in context of instruction.
Since you weren't there, thus not having any validity in determining whether someone is telling the truth or not, let me spell it out for you. This took place in one of the classes that the two privates had to attend. These classes were held in a combat stress clinic, the one that the two privates had to go to. This class' title was, Thinking About Your Thoughts.
Both the other NCO and I argued that point against him. But the man had a point.
Everything we ultimately did, we do because we wanted to do it. Why do we "want" to follow orders? Because we "don't want" to get into trouble maybe? Because we "want" to work as part of the team perhaps? Because we "want" to get something done? The Colonel wasn't saying that it's OK to not want to follow orders.
The point he was making is that we're ultimately responsible for our actions, and we took these actions because we "wanted" to do them for one reason or another. For example, being drunk didn't cause you to crash the car. You decided, and "wanted" to do something, which lead to a series of actions that you "wanted" to carry out, which ultimately lead to you crashing the car. It wasn't the beer that did it, it was you. You "want" to do something because of either a positive or negative reinforcement. You "want" to hydrate to quench your thirst, you "want" to remove your fingers from the "red" burner so that you could stop the pain, you "want" to follow the cop's instructions so that you don't suffer the consequences, or so that you could "get the process" over with less ramifications for you in the future.
THAT'S what the Colonel was getting across. If you read that comment with the intentions of understanding what you were reading, you would've gotten the point as well. Heck, you should kick yourself in the arse for not getting it the way a VETERAN would've. You're behind the power curve there guy.
I used that point to counter the posters insinuation that we went to Iraq simply because we were "ordered" to do it, with further implications that these orders are the "only" reason to why we're doing what we're doing out here.
No, they didn't do it simply because, "it was their job." They didn't do it simply because " they followed orders," they did it mostly because of what I argued here. As far as "wanting" to be a killer? I've lost count of how many privates, prior to deploying, talked about how they looked forward to shooting the terrorists in the face, and killing the insurgents, etc.
About the only thing you said, that I agree with, is what you said, which I bolded in red above:
"cause on the political threads, I normally show my ignorance. WTF, one more time of showin it won't matter." -- JstAnotherSub
Actually it does matter, you should've followed your initial intention instead of going against your better judgment.
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